Autopsy Cats lose their way in 18 points loss to Saints

[D BRIDGE]

That would have been at general stoppage and normally there's more than just 8 players (4 each team) at those stoppage situations - often you see a dozen off players in those situations, so who else was in the area and who was taking the defensive side of the stoppage?

Yes just a throw in stoppage... Not a centre bounce stoppage.

I didn't pay much attention to it but just quickly seeing all those guys in and around the throw-in made me think "boy are we a couple of quality mids short".

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Nor does Blicavs. He has had a poor year but missed a good bit if not all of preseason plus I think has carried an injury most of the year.

Didn't even notice him on the list but yeah, doesn't belong there either agree

 

[Micksy]

The worst case involves Hawthorn eliminating us at some point.

 

[frggr]

Is this the new "heavy training block"?

No, it's reality though and it's been shown by the team selections.

It's a balance of getting games into younger guys, resting older guys so they're not done by August and doing enough to get to top 4.

No point winning the July premiership if you're in Bali in September (aka the Blues)

It doesn't mean the balance is always struck perfectly.

 

[catempire]

Rohan's problem is coming back from concussion. If you look back Stewart and Cameron took a few weeks to come good after coming back from concussion.

Rohan’s problem is he’s past it. I’m shocked he’s not subject to the blowtorch here.

 

[Micksy]

Rohan’s problem is he’s past it. I’m shocked he’s not subject to the blowtorch here.

We all know Gary's just warming up for prime time.

 

[frggr]

Rohan’s problem is he’s past it. I’m shocked he’s not subject to the blowtorch here.

The problem with Gary is he's career has always been low possession and inconsistent.

Makes it difficult to see when he's "past it" IMHO

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Why did the thread title change? It was more accurate.

 

[catempire]

The problem with Gary is he's career has always been low possession and inconsistent.

Makes it difficult to see when he's "past it" IMHO

One thing that has always been a non-negotiable for him is pressure.

Zero tackles and 13 pressure points last night. That’s the worry for me.

 

[frggr]

One thing that has always been a non-negotiable for him is pressure.

Zero tackles and 13 pressure points last night. That’s the worry for me.

Yeah that's fair. Is that a one off or is it a trend? He seemed to be pretty emphatic in earlier games.

Something to keep an eye on though

 

[Burtyl78]

Unless the other two (Port and GWS) lose, in which case it becomes relevant again

It’s highly likely that they will both lose so we need to hand the eagles a 10 goal plus defeat and we could still finish 2nd

 

[frggr]

It’s highly likely that they will both lose so we need to hand the eagles a 10 goal plus defeat and we could still finish 2nd

That would be amazing, but I don't have confidence it'll happen exactly like that.

The melts from opposition team fans would be glorious.

 

[cats_09]

So had to watch the replay before I could work out what happened - it was so hard to tell at the game…

Actually the replay wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. Yes the third qtr was a "disaster" as was a 3 minute patch in the 4th (where they kicked 3 goals). Other than that our footy was ok and we just couldn't sustain the pressure for long enough.

Some of the negative posts in this forum is quite astounding. For people to now write us off as any chance of winning the flag is just hyperbole...EVERY single team in the mix (which St Kilda is NOT) has had shocking qtrs and bad games. We have to accept the even-ness of the competition is real and it doesn't take much to make a team look second rate.

Match ups are also a real thing...and St Kilda seem to always play well against the Cats - especially at Marvel Stadium.

Would I bet my house on us winning - no...Car...maybe not...But can we win it -absolutely. It is a competition which means we need to compare ourselves not against out emotional fan wish for perfection but against other teams. Brisbane were certainties 2 weeks ago and have lost two in a row...before that Carlton took over as favourites and are now struggling to make the 8...and of course Sydney were clear favourites (as were Geelong at round 7!) but look vulnerable.

So focussing on this game - a lot went right for St Kilda in the second half - but they did also play well. Marshall got on top and Wilke was amazing. I have seen O Henry been blamed for that but in the first half all of his intercept marks were against Rohan. In the second he switched on to Henry but often had the benefit of an extra number.

My view on some players

Humpries - amazing. Grows each week. Career high disposals (second half only 5 but..) at 92% efficiency

Bowes - one of his best I think for us. Certainly his best when not playing MF (only went in CBA 4 times) although DE let him down (58% given 19 of his 31 were uncontested). Still trying to work out how to use him best?

Kolo and J Henry I thought were pretty good in the backline. Guthrie was below his high standards

Mannagh another good game. A little more uncontested ratio than normal and 5 turnovers is high for him. But 21 and 2 goals I will take every week along with 4 stoppage clearances.

Dempsey to me was more impressive on the replay. 20 and a goal and a goal assist is now pretty much his average - which from the wing is elite. 85% DE and 8 score involvements (cats high) shows how key he now is to our team

Danger was also pretty good but not able to repeat the 4th qtr heroics of last week. We need him firing in finals!

I thought Stewart and Jezza were both poor despite statistics being ok. both to my eye looked fumble and just a little off - in particular when it mattered. They are stars but are going to have a "bad one" ever so often. Just can't afford any in Sept!

Miers ok but no great impact and Holmes was pretty good but did have 8 turnovers - too many for a good game

Mullin will be rewarded by the coaches - we can't underestimate the tagging role on Hill

O Henry does seem a little off of late. I am not in the camp that he is "no good" - I think he will be a very very good player forus. But it isn't quite happening for him. Despite that he was miles more impactful than Rohan which I assume is why they subbed him. If Rohan is going to stay in 23 I think it will be as sub.

I thought Neale was ok - pretty good in parts.

Duncan I don't think is a natural sub - and can get exposed in the backline. If we are going to play Bowes down back (I wouldn't but maybe he gets squeezed there) then I find it hard to see where they want to play Duncan (with bowes and Humphries in backline)

Bad loss - but not as impactful as it would have been if Brisbane won...which they didn't.

We can win 3 games (in 5 weeks including two byes) if we don't have to play them all in a row. Our "big 3" need to play 3 huge games - if they do we can win.

I'd love to be able to rewatch the match but only via the aerial view I had from the top deck last night - and use that to analyse what we changed between the 2nd quarter and the 3rd...

The first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter were totally frustrating with how easily St Kilda were clearing the ball & finding the space to transition the ball - almost like they had covid & we were told to keep our 2m distance from them. Over the first half we definitely were pressuring the ball carrier more & taking away the space for St Kilda to chip kick into, but in the 3rd quarter we were back to "guarding grass" and trying to roll our defensive nest across the ground which is something I haven't really seen from us this season at all - it's a style that can work at the narrower ground of KP but rarely on the wider grounds

The other thing that was noticeable as the quarter went on is how we didn't seem to really be switching up our approach to try and counter what St Kilda was doing - wondering if the coaching group knowing we've basically secured a top 4 spot tried to use the 3rd quarter to get a slightly different look at things in a live game which is a lot different to just trying it on the training track, they used different combinations of players in the guts than what we're used to, this was against an opponent we won't be facing again this year and it presented the opportunity to see IF the players could problem solve out on the field themselves

The things that really stood out to me during that quarter other than just our defensive positioning, is how we lined up at centre bounces. There was 9 centre bounces in the 3rd quarter & it's an area St Kilda definitely got on top of - but we start running Miers & Mannagh through there; I know that Mannagh has attended the odd centre bounce since coming back into the team, but I can't recall Miers in at too many if any this year

While neither Atkins or Bowes attended a single centre bounce in the 3rd quarter - when would the last game have been that Atkins was playing as a midfielder and he didn't attended a single centre bounce for the whole quarter? He then attended all 11 centre bounces in the last quarter. So when the opposition gets on top in the centre bounces and we have 2 clear players that have shown an ability to dig in & apply pressure in that situation, but we don't give either a look in for 30 minutes - that def sounds more of a deliberate coaching decision to see how others respond rather than necessarily sitting on ones hands not knowing what moves to pull


So from a fans perceptive it sucked and we seemingly threw away a chance to finish top 2 - even though that with a win last night we still would have required a few other results to go our way to jump up to 2nd. But from a coaching & player perspective, maybe it gave them answers to a number of questions and we'll see those things implemented next week & into the finals


And this leads into next weeks team selection - 6 weeks ago I would have said that we possible see Hardie make his debut (and farewell) against WCE, then when Hawkins announced his retirement I would have said nope to that especially if Hawkins is playing as I doubt there's a teammate who'd want to miss next week. With Hawkins ruled out I thought the debut was potentially back on the cards, but watching the 2nd half last night, I'm not so sure and wouldn't be surprised if we instead go all in next week with the approach we want to take into week 1 of the finals

 

[Burtyl78]

Have to keep Henry - he needs the experience and he offers more than Rohan 90% of the time.

90 percent the other way, Ollie ain’t chasing anybody down, Rohan everyday of the week

 

[cats_09]

Most people's eyes outside of the Geelong board, perhaps

View attachment 2083240

I still haven't voted

 

[cats_09]

Didn't even notice him on the list but yeah, doesn't belong there either agree

Plus Blicavs is contracted - so not sure he's taking off a year early

 

[catempire]

Yeah that's fair. Is that a one off or is it a trend? He seemed to be pretty emphatic in earlier games.

Something to keep an eye on though

Hes not having a good season, by his own standards, in any area.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Rohan’s problem is he’s past it. I’m shocked he’s not subject to the blowtorch here.

Why lay the boots in when a bloke is maybe 300 in-game minutes from retirement?

 

[D BRIDGE]

It’s highly likely that they will both lose so we need to hand the eagles a 10 goal plus defeat and we could still finish 2nd

Negative on the 10 goals... I done the math and if Port lose by 1 point we will need to smoke WC by around 110.

 

[cats_09]

 

[catempire]

Why lay the boots in when a bloke is maybe 300 in-game minutes from retirement?

Not so much lay the boots in but there’s a post a couple up for example trying to suggest Rohan is preferable to Henry. It’s just ignoring facts and reality.

 

[tommy2011]

Patently ridiculous statement. "Absolute best case scenario" is we play our best and the other teams in the top 4 play their worst, and we scratch out x amount of finals wins.

The competition simply isn't strong enough for your scenario to be the "absolute best case". It may happen but it would still be closer to worst case than best case.

The competition seems average, at best. We shouldn't be in the top four, but have teams below us proven they should be? The AFL has expanded beyond the talent level in the elite competition. There simply shouldn't be 18 teams (and 19th on the way).

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Not so much lay the boots in but there’s a post a couple up for example trying to suggest Rohan is preferable to Henry. It’s just ignoring facts and reality.

I've maintained that view throughout most of the year but I've been holding onto the idea that Rohan is going to start pulling out vintage pressure performances.

He isn't and won't start now

 

[Finknottle]

I only saw bits and pieces but he was on OHenry when I was watching .

Wilkie took 15 marks, some one on ones with Henry, some double teams, some intercepts from bad Geelong entries. St Kilda had 43 more marks than Geelong.

 

[bulletproof]

I’d probably keep Stanley in when SDK returns but place SDK in Blicavs old midfield role.

We need some more class around the ball and SDK can provide that.

Feel like we have missed his polish through the middle since he went back and then got injured.