Autopsy Cats lose their way in 18 points loss to Saints

[The_Koulouriotis_Fan]

I do think we'll get more out of Henry when Rohan is put to pasture. I just want to see Henry on his bike and getting mobile a bit more. Seeing him flat footed on a 1 on 1 is infuriating

His pressure against Freo was the best I’ve seen from him, Rohan comes back and it goes to Hell, two things are definitely related

 

[CatToTheFuture]

During the pre-match warm up, Mullin was with the defensive unit when in the groups. Then during the second quarter he was finding himself starting centre bounces within our forward 50 as he was opposed to Hill - where Hill went he went. So if Hill was lining up on the wing then Mullin was on the wing, when Hill was in our forward 50 to play as a running flanker then Mullin was right there beside him

So when in the 6-6-6 centre bounce situations, if Mullin is lining up in our forward 50, then it means a forward is shifted out to the wing, the bench or even in the guts

IF Mullin is going to play a similar role going forward where he's playing that type of tagging role on an opposition speedster, we also need to factor in that he could find himself in the forward mix which can also impact our balance

Knevitt likely found himself up forward at times, not sure if Atkins was there during the 3rd quarter at all - that was the opposite end of the ground to where I was sitting and not sure what role Atkins was playing in the 3rd

This makes sense

 

[Seeds]

Here are the stats. I look forward to you trying to spin them. I’ll get the popcorn.

View attachment 2083332

They are not stats over the last 10 games. My post clearly states last 10 games.

Ignoring that the only standout for henry is goals of 1.4 a game. But in his last 10 games this one clear stat advantage has fallen even slightly lower than rohans.

Oh and you also have to account for the fact rohan has been sub (or subbed off early with concussion) in at least 4 of those games. Henry only twice. So game stat comparisons are not equivalent and favour henry. Make adjustment for that and rohans look even better again in comparison to henry.

And as stated in my post, rohans main advantages relative to henry dont show up in stats. Its his contesting in marking situations when he is out of position or outnumbered where rohan usually shines whereas henry gets outmarked all too often. Defensive chasing is another area not shown in the stats where rohans is clearly ahead.

 

[catempire]

They are not stats over the last 10 games. My post clearly states last 10 games.

Ignoring that the only standout for henry is goals of 1.4 a game. But in his last 10 games this one clear stat advantage has fallen even slightly lower than rohans.

Oh and you also have to account for the fact rohan has been sub (or subbed off early with concussion) in at least 4 of those games. Henry only twice. So game stat comparisons are not equivalent and favour henry. Make adjustment for that and rohans look even better again in comparison to henry.

And as stated in my post, rohans main advantages relative to henry dont show up in stats. Its his contesting in marking situations when he is out of position or outnumbered where rohan usually shines whereas henry gets outmarked all too often. Defensive chasing is another area not shown in the stats where rohans is clearly ahead.

And there’s the spin.

 

[cats_09]

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Regardless, both Port’s and Sydney’s midfields will tear us a new one.

Port were very unimpressive last night and im assuming you havent watched much of sydney the last 8 weeks.

 

[Tony Barber]

I have no idea what happened in that 2nd half.
Other than, we just couldn't get our hands on the ball at all. And they weren't playing keepings off.

Thats a worry.

What is not a worry is Humphries. He's going to have a very classy and consistent career.
I love that he believes his deficiency is his defensive side. Because he doesnt look weak in that area.

5 years thanks.

 

[Tony Barber]

unfortunately, he was at 19 at 1/2 time.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

This.
I don’t know what people expect from Neale. Sure Tommy had some awesome early games but he did it in the one of the best teams ever with Ablett, Bartel, Ling, Corey, Selwood delivering the ball to him.

Neale is tracking very well for a guy of his size in his 17th game.

Maybe it’s just that one breakout game of him kicking 6 that people want to see and that will convince them?

Amartey had a 9 goal breakout game and is still only one goal per 5 games ahead of Neale on average

 

[Tony Barber]

Port were very unimpressive last night and im assuming you havent watched much of sydney the last 8 weeks.

Nah, he's right. If Sydney have a good month then we won't touch their midfield.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Nah, he's right. If Sydney have a good month then we won't touch their midfield.

Why would you think sydney would have a good month? That makes no sense.

 

[Tony Barber]

Why would you think sydney would have a good month? That makes no sense.

I've been watching them. I knew that final quarter last week had restarted them. Heeney is dragging them on his shoulders.
They'll respond.

Let me ask you this in regards to the previous response that you replied to.
If Geelong play well & Sydney play well. Do you seriously not believe that their mid field will rip ours apart?

 

[The_Koulouriotis_Fan]

Amartey had a 9 goal breakout game and is still only one goal per 5 games ahead of Neale on average

Yeah exactly, it looks impressive to see a breakout game, but with Neale I’m impressed with how consistent he’s been, especially for having played under 20 games. Augers well for the future

 

[CHAWKTS]

I'd love to be able to rewatch the match but only via the aerial view I had from the top deck last night - and use that to analyse what we changed between the 2nd quarter and the 3rd...

The first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter were totally frustrating with how easily St Kilda were clearing the ball & finding the space to transition the ball - almost like they had covid & we were told to keep our 2m distance from them. Over the first half we definitely were pressuring the ball carrier more & taking away the space for St Kilda to chip kick into, but in the 3rd quarter we were back to "guarding grass" and trying to roll our defensive nest across the ground which is something I haven't really seen from us this season at all - it's a style that can work at the narrower ground of KP but rarely on the wider grounds

The other thing that was noticeable as the quarter went on is how we didn't seem to really be switching up our approach to try and counter what St Kilda was doing - wondering if the coaching group knowing we've basically secured a top 4 spot tried to use the 3rd quarter to get a slightly different look at things in a live game which is a lot different to just trying it on the training track, they used different combinations of players in the guts than what we're used to, this was against an opponent we won't be facing again this year and it presented the opportunity to see IF the players could problem solve out on the field themselves

The things that really stood out to me during that quarter other than just our defensive positioning, is how we lined up at centre bounces. There was 9 centre bounces in the 3rd quarter & it's an area St Kilda definitely got on top of - but we start running Miers & Mannagh through there; I know that Mannagh has attended the odd centre bounce since coming back into the team, but I can't recall Miers in at too many if any this year

While neither Atkins or Bowes attended a single centre bounce in the 3rd quarter - when would the last game have been that Atkins was playing as a midfielder and he didn't attended a single centre bounce for the whole quarter? He then attended all 11 centre bounces in the last quarter. So when the opposition gets on top in the centre bounces and we have 2 clear players that have shown an ability to dig in & apply pressure in that situation, but we don't give either a look in for 30 minutes - that def sounds more of a deliberate coaching decision to see how others respond rather than necessarily sitting on ones hands not knowing what moves to pull


So from a fans perceptive it sucked and we seemingly threw away a chance to finish top 2 - even though that with a win last night we still would have required a few other results to go our way to jump up to 2nd. But from a coaching & player perspective, maybe it gave them answers to a number of questions and we'll see those things implemented next week & into the finals


And this leads into next weeks team selection - 6 weeks ago I would have said that we possible see Hardie make his debut (and farewell) against WCE, then when Hawkins announced his retirement I would have said nope to that especially if Hawkins is playing as I doubt there's a teammate who'd want to miss next week. With Hawkins ruled out I thought the debut was potentially back on the cards, but watching the 2nd half last night, I'm not so sure and wouldn't be surprised if we instead go all in next week with the approach we want to take into week 1 of the finals

Good take on the “expirementation”. It was pre planned that Miers goes inside. I don’t think they deliberately risk the game but CS is consistent in saying that they can’t sometimes risk a game to do something for the long term (eg. Managing) and maybe this is another example. To see if a different mix will offer something in a cut throat game where we need a spark.

To my mind Bowes in the MF (and atkins) is clearly better short term than a miers - and may have given us a better chance of winning last night? Having said that Bowes had his best game in defence that I can remember so maybe we learnt something there to?

We went in with 10 possible forwards (if you include Dempsey and Danger who they want to play forward more) and also they knew that Mullin might play forward to follow Hill if he goes back…so they had to think about moving some forwards into different role (wing and MF).

Look it didn’t seem to work (to be fair I would have thought Miers could be a good MF and Mannagh has proven it at VFL level - so it is not a stupid experiment) but maybe those learnings will hold us in good stead at some stage.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

That was his 17th game of senior football

People need to be reminded

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Yeah exactly, it looks impressive to see a breakout game, but with Neale I’m impressed with how consistent he’s been, especially for having played under 20 games. Augers well for the future

Yeah, I think our expectations for key forwards are just set by having two Coleman medallists

 

[CHAWKTS]

We can still finish top 2

But even a win last night didn't guarantee top 2 - we could have won last night & next week, and still finish 4th

And I don’t think the narrative of home vs away in the first final is as critical as people make out. Indeed playing away frees you up a bit for a bit of a free hit whereas playing home is huge pressure not to stuff it up!

As we have seen with ladder predictor it is counter productive to figure it all out - so I think MC is just focussed on winning now (which we didn’t last night) whilst getting players right for whatever we get week 1.

I would back us playing sydney in sydney. Pressure all on them and they are just going. We go up with a plan and have a crack attitude. I don’t think playing Port at MCG week one is frankly any easier. Going to be difficult for us no matter what given I suspect we are the 5th or 6th best team in it (and that isn’t including Hawks/Bulldogs!) - but that doesn’t mean we can’t beat anybody anywhere

 

[Tony Barber]

And I don’t think the narrative of home vs away in the first final is as critical as people make out. Indeed playing away frees you up a bit for a bit of a free hit whereas playing home is huge pressure not to stuff it up!

As we have seen with ladder predictor it is counter productive to figure it all out - so I think MC is just focussed on winning now (which we didn’t last night) whilst getting players right for whatever we get week 1.

I would back us playing sydney in sydney. Pressure all on them and they are just going. We go up with a plan and have a crack attitude. I don’t think playing Port at MCG week one is frankly any easier. Going to be difficult for us no matter what given I suspect we are the 5th or 6th best team in it (and that isn’t including Hawks/Bulldogs!) - but that doesn’t mean we can’t beat anybody anywhere

That is wishful thinking.
Let's say we finish 3rd. Would you prefer to play gws in Sydney or would you have liked to play them at the MCG?

Please try and keep a straight face when responding.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I've been watching them. I knew that final quarter last week had restarted them. Heeney is dragging them on his shoulders.
They'll respond.

Let me ask you this in regards to the previous response that you replied to.
If Geelong play well & Sydney play well. Do you seriously not believe that their mid field will rip ours apart?

If that final quarter had restarted them they would have been way better in the first half vs essendon. They werent. They are patchy at best.
They need a sports psych.

To answer your question i think neither team deserves the flag.
Their MF is better but our forwards are way better than their backs (who are gettable).
We could beat them but a lot needs to go right.

 

[cats_09]

Good take on the “expirementation”. It was pre planned that Miers goes inside. I don’t think they deliberately risk the game but CS is consistent in saying that they can’t sometimes risk a game to do something for the long term (eg. Managing) and maybe this is another example. To see if a different mix will offer something in a cut throat game where we need a spark.

To my mind Bowes in the MF (and atkins) is clearly better short term than a miers - and may have given us a better chance of winning last night? Having said that Bowes had his best game in defence that I can remember so maybe we learnt something there to?

We went in with 10 possible forwards (if you include Dempsey and Danger who they want to play forward more) and also they knew that Mullin might play forward to follow Hill if he goes back…so they had to think about moving some forwards into different role (wing and MF).

Look it didn’t seem to work (to be fair I would have thought Miers could be a good MF and Mannagh has proven it at VFL level - so it is not a stupid experiment) but maybe those learnings will hold us in good stead at some stage.

When I saw Miers warming up with the mids, I thought we'd see him playing more wing rather than actually in the guts - I can see it working against the right team or with the right balance in there, but not sure we got that last night

Bowes to defence was always on the cards once Touhy was out managed & Duncan then named as sub - agree it was his best game in defence and maybe that was partly due to the absence of the other 2 I just mentioned because he suddenly had a more defined role rather than just slotting in amongst others. It was interesting that the first time he did go into the guts was in the last after Duncan came on - maybe it gives us a few headaches going forward because we've seen his impact in the middle, but last night he showed he can do it from defence also



I agree that they wouldn't deliberately risk the game, but at some stage you've got to try things in a live environment to see if they work and it's safe to say that not everything worked last night - I think that in part is why I'm not completely upset with what we saw in the second half, why I'm not ready to declare season over & wanting to throw out all the toys. I believe we've had much worse losses this season, but I also believe we'll take more out of last night than we have from many other games this season

Having said that though - if we play like shit over our next couple of matches, it'll all mean nothing

 

[foxdog50]

extremly low. have to rely on both port and gws to lose by decent margin and us winning a decent margin with our crappy %.

What margin does that have to be for all party's for us to finish 2nd?

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Not so much lay the boots in but there’s a post a couple up for example trying to suggest Rohan is preferable to Henry. It’s just ignoring facts and reality.

Ok you have given your view on Gary Rohan , and to be fair he isnt doing much at present to the benefit of Geel

But now please give your view on Ollie Henry , and where he is at , because he aint in flash form either

 

[Finknottle]

If Geelong lose next week it could finish 8th on the ladder. Probably a fairer indication of where we stand given our soft draw. For a team which has a rag-tag b-grade midfield and 5 veterans who could finish up at the end of the year, they've defied expectations. If you had told me at the start of the year that we would be sitting in 4th position at the end of the year I would have choked with laughter. So whatever happens now, even going out in straight sets, as a Geelong supporter you couldn't be unhappy. I hope we put aside that total capitulation to St Kilda, regroup for next week and ce sera sera.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I've been watching them. I knew that final quarter last week had restarted them. Heeney is dragging them on his shoulders.
They'll respond.

Let me ask you this in regards to the previous response that you replied to.
If Geelong play well & Sydney play well. Do you seriously not believe that their mid field will rip ours apart?

Not sure I agree. Their mids are all very attacking and they leave defensive holes on the run. That Tom Stewart back of stoppage sweeper role could really disrupt them I think. We never saw it against them but if there's a team in the top 7 I'm confident we can trouble its them

 

[foxdog50]

That was his 17th game of senior football

I'm not having a go at him.... I just want him to do those couple of things extra...