Autopsy Cats lose their way in 18 points loss to Saints

[Footy_Fan2007]

Good post. My re watch also didn’t set off alarm bells. Remembering that saints have won the last 5 including beating the top team…some teams play better when no pressure…they were good on their home deck…

And your comment on those players is correct. No doubt Rohan and o ‘Henry got beaten in the air by Wilkie and that hurt us…but oherny will be good player for us as will neale who did things last night that Hawkins can do for us now…Mullin tagging role was elite

Won the last 5? Didn’t they get flogged by nearly 100 a few weeks ago by Brisbane at Marvel?

 

[Seeds]

OK : Name them

Sdk for knevitt (or blicavs - im not against knevitt but he didnt have touch last night), bews for mullins, and either hawkins or parfitt/hardie for henry (an extra mid is probably needed). Some may also add bruhn, touhy, oconner, clark.

 

[D BRIDGE]

Henrys direct opponent was best on ground. He also short stepped a couple of times. I don't know how you could possibly defend him based on that performance. He was non competitive

100% noticed some short steps at least once.

The guy has plenty of issues with his game.

I'm not convinced he will ever be anything more than what he is but hopefully he can improve and get the most out of his talent.

Not having any speed is a big issue imo... he can't get separation so he defaults to trying to get the cheapy out the back rather than present.

No size also doesn't help... but If he puts size on he will become even slower.

He can't make himself taller either and a small 189cm for a marking player.

I certainly have less faith in him than many others on here.

I'd love for him to make me eat my words (same thing with Bruhn).

 

[My Tilly]

Port are a better team right now and I would rather just not play them

How good is that midfield! Horne-Francis is a freak.

 

[Heckler]

Defensive Issues and Observations

Cats Zone Press is great at creating turnovers
However multi players converging leaves an outlet
In basketball, One guy presses, Others intercept
Press for the live ball carrier. Man on Man the rest
Switch when opponents are forced into a set kick

EDIT : ADDED
(Zone Press live intercepts start Cast fast rebound
Mark intercepts start slow possession build up )

Stationary Zone only works for long high balls
Effective only in conjunction with midfield pressure
Stationary zone has more holes than Swiss Cheese
Ineffective defending against short sharp passes

Cats defense is a entire team defensive structure
Dual Zone defense fails when pressure drops.
ie: Allow run off The Mark, Not contesting, chasing.
This is the reason for the O'Henry is lazy anger
He does not chase, Drops back for rebound goal.
Unpressured live ball starts chain of possessions

Cats must control Central Corridor to stop Switch
Cats defend to force opponents to kick wide
Need to man-up on all Switch to Corridor options
Hate Cats jogging behind, then sprint after Switch
Perhaps station zone defenders 60m out, stop I50

Cats missed SDK. Fast track CO'S, Mullin next year

 

[MacStradbroke]

I don't get how you're mad though as you called it season over in the 3rd term against Adelaide. Surely you're well and truly into the acceptance phase by this point.

Gotta love fans who claim we’re not up to it then throw the toys out of the cot when we lose

 

[kickazz]

Even in our better wins this year we have tended to bring g the ball in poorly to F50, with forwards leading back towards goal or us bombing long and high and getting intercepted. Pressure or no pressure.

For the best part of a decade this has been our undoing in finals. In 2022 we fixed this mainly via Gary Rohan

23

Gary Rohan

Age

33

Ht

189cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.8

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

1.2

4star

being a threatening enough option that warranted his man playing on him. This reduced the third man up and intercept marks considerably.

So to play well in and maybe win a final we need to get back to something that looks like this.

 

[MacStradbroke]

100% noticed some short steps at least once.

The guy has plenty of issues with his game.

I'm not convinced he will ever be anything more than what he is but hopefully he can improve and get the most out of his talent.

Not having any speed is a big issue imo... he can't get separation so he defaults to trying to get the cheapy out the back rather than present.

No size also doesn't help... but If he puts size on he will become even slower.

He can't make himself taller either and a small 189cm for a marking player.

I certainly have less faith in him than many others on here.

I'd love for him to make me eat my words (same thing with Bruhn).

Ollie Henry has some serious tools, and I do want him in the team, but, he does give me serious Dan Menzel vibes in that we are effectively one down up forward when the opposition has the ball.

 

[Heckler]

Sdk for knevitt (or blicavs - im not against knevitt but he didnt have touch last night), bews for mullins, and either hawkins or parfitt/hardie for henry (an extra mid is probably needed). Some may also add bruhn, touhy, oconner, clark.

SDK Bruhn MO'C Clark : In the mix
Touhy : Perhaps
Bews Hawkins Parfitt : The Past
Mullin Knevitt Hardie : The Future
Flag 2024 doubtful : Future is now.

 

[Chinacats]

Tackling dipped from last week and that needed to be on level… saints ran us off our legs in the 2nd half and had loose men everywhere . Winning contests and setting up the ground the way they wanted to.
Cats drinking their own bath water after their ‘GF’ win last week and leading by 33 at half time.
Mindset is everything.

 

[Klink]

Id have geelong at $20 but i wouldnt have anyone else including sydney lower than $15. I know thats not how the market works but there is no $5 worthy team in this field.

Swans may as well be now. Two SCG finals and an armchair ride to the GF.

They will be licking their lips at the prospect of playing us in a QF. Then get a home prelim after a week's rest and will be hard to beat there.

Then they likely play against an intestate opponent on the G, not a VIC team. Dream run for them.

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[Footy_Fan2007]

We can win 3 games (in 5 weeks including two byes) if we don't have to play them all in a row. Our "big 3" need to play 3 huge games - if they do we can win.

I honestly don’t think this team is capable of winning 1 final let alone 3.

Last night was embarrassing, but I also feel relieved now as it showed us that we are absolutely no chance. No more false hope.
Great effort to make top 4 though. Quite amazing really. But we are one of the weaker top 4 teams in recent memory.

 

[kickazz]

Henrys direct opponent was best on ground. He also short stepped a couple of times. I don't know how you could possibly defend him based on that performance. He was non competitive

Yeah, I've been bagging Henry a bit this year, and the jury might still be out on some aspects of his ability.

But the uncompetitiveness was bad last night. Compare against Freo and North, where he really had a crack. He has got it in him, let's see it more please.

 

[Klink]

Henry had more pressure points than Dempsey, Cameron and Mannagh, among others last night.

Understand that. But I don't use stats solely to inform decision making. Particularly in this day and age where stats aren't always a reflection of reality. I think it's fair to say the three you mentioned contribute significantly in other areas and have more than one string to their bow - but they should absolutely be given a bake too.

We have far bigger issues to worry about, but if Henry doesn't get better in this area it won't be the career we anticipated for him.

The modern game demands better performance in the defensive stakes.


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[Footy Smarts]

The main problem with Rohan and O Henry is they both seem to play better when the other one is missing. I think we have to pick one and I'd probably lean towards Rohan at least in part because Henry looks like he's playing sore. It's very marginal though.

After his good tagging role I'm probably leaning to Mullin as sub if Guthrie or O'Connor can't get back.

Just when you think Stanley is going ok he gets completely smashed for big chunks of last night's game. I'm playing SDK in the ruck with Blicavs as 2nd ruck with each of them drifting behind the ball at times.

Changes for mine for finals:

Bruhn, SDK and Tuohy for Knevitt, Stanley and O Henry.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

We’re all armchair experts with a lot of strong opinions, especially after a loss. I don’t think it’s helpful or rational to pinpoint specific players to “never play for the cats again”.

Yes, it was a missed opportunity, but let’s give the saints credit for an amazing half of football. I doubt any other team could have stopped the saints in that half. Everything clicked and bounced their way. We’ve seen flashes of this football all season, but it hasn’t been sustainable for the whole season, hence their ladder position.

There is also no doubt the trip to Perth had an impact. The freo game would have taken a toll physically.

There’s so much more to learn from a loss than a win. And there’s still a good chance to lock in top 4 with no real standout teams in the 8.

Totally agree - the game over here was finals intensity all through and we had to arm wrestle them every minute of the last 1/4 to get over the line.
Pressure in our one wood and we saw what that does in the first half , super half.
Full credit to Saints who had nothing to lose and played an incredible 3rd 1/4.
The last was a contest and we actually got the lead back only to be overrun at the end.
What a season - Swans went down by > 100 points a few weeks ago , Blues are shot and Freo may not make finals......
No result should surprise in season 2024......

 

[Chinacats]

I honestly don’t think this team is capable of winning 1 final let alone 3.

Last night was embarrassing, but I also feel relieved now as it showed us that we are absolutely no chance. No more false hope.
Great effort to make top 4 though. Quite amazing really. But we are one of the weaker top 4 teams in recent memory.

Yeah that’s the positive . Saints showed their capability last night but sit way down the ladder , so it’s a failed year for them. Cats however in large part are bog average 7-8 after 7-0 start highlights this, yet will make top 4. And still a little sniff…
So that’s something to be bog average and still be top 4…..
Equalization has really made the league average v average for 14 teams. I mean look at Sydney’s first half the other night…. Boy that was shocking.

 

[Jumping Jack]

I think we’ll get a timely jolt after last night.

Head to Sydney - beat Swans on their home deck - get a week off - home prelim at the MCG - and put the fear of god into the remaining finals sides.

I’ve got a funny feeling that we’ve got a few punches to throw yet.

Whatever happens from here, we know where the GF is played. If we can find a path to get there I still think we’re as good a chance as anyone on the last day. Prepare for all scenarios - I think we’re in for a wild finals series.


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[D BRIDGE]

I think at one stoppage last night we had Atkins, Duncan, Knevitt and Bowes standing around as the mids.

Naturally, St Kilda won the clearance.

Boy do we need more mids.

Smith is a good start... but still not enough for mine.

 

[Vdubs]

Truly has a forward line with Neale Henry and Rohan functioned once this year?

I don't think it has and simply cannot happen again.

OH is best 22 whether many accept that or not. There is simply no better option. That does not make him a great player yet, but the pressure put on him last night by Saints defenders, and by our pressured entries, rendered him ineffective. Anyone criticising his desire or interest is misguided at best. He didn't take some marks he normally would have, but that is not common. Time to accept that our best 22 or 23 is not 2022 level anymore, and that we are one of 12 or so teams that could make the 8. This year, thanks to that exceptional start we had, we are guaranteed top 8, and if all goes well, top 4, but that should not delude us into thinking we can play consecutive 2-3 high quality finals games for wins. We are just too reliant on iffy players.
I love our youth coming through, Humphries, Holmes, DeK, both Ollies, Mannagh, but...
the replacements of Danger, Stanley, Duncan, CGuthrie, Tuohy, Rohan, which are all imminent, will be a challenge.
Neale and Conway are still BIG ? imho

 

[Vdubs]

I think we’ll get a timely jolt after last night.

Head to Sydney - beat Swans on their home deck - get a week off - home prelim at the MCG - and put the fear of god into the remaining finals sides.

I’ve got a funny feeling that we’ve got a few punches to throw yet.

Whatever happens from here, we know where the GF is played. If we can find a path to get there I still think we’re as good a chance as anyone on the last day. Prepare for all scenarios - I think we’re in for a wild finals series.


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Swans should belt us if we got them week 1. Their dip was affordable, and they are back. Their MF strength and depth and class, with Grundy is beyond us this year.

 

[catempire]

Understand that. But I don't use stats solely to inform decision making. Particularly in this day and age where stats aren't always a reflection of reality. I think it's fair to say the three you mentioned contribute significantly in other areas and have more than one string to their bow - but they should absolutely be given a bake too.

We have far bigger issues to worry about, but if Henry doesn't get better in this area it won't be the career we anticipated for him.

The modern game demands better performance in the defensive stakes.


On SM-A526B using BigFooty.com mobile app

This is an area where people should put more focus on stats.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I think at one stoppage last night we had Atkins, Duncan, Knevitt and Bowes standing around as the mids.

Naturally, St Kilda won the clearance.

Boy do we need more mids.

Smith is a good start... but still not enough for mine.

Need to add him plus leave our future picks in reserve for next trade period to target more

 

[Vdubs]

Yeah that’s the positive . Saints showed their capability last night but sit way down the ladder , so it’s a failed year for them. Cats however in large part are bog average 7-8 after 7-0 start highlights this, yet will make top 4. And still a little sniff…
So that’s something to be bog average and still be top 4…..
Equalization has really made the league average v average for 14 teams. I mean look at Sydney’s first half the other night…. Boy that was shocking.

Good points.
But, as with last night, and with Swans game- the opposition is often ignored in looking at results.
Essendon exerted significant, desperate pressure- their last tilt.
Saints came out so revved up after half time, and they are fit and skilled. As CS said, they were like the Harlem Globetrotters- everything they did worked and it grew momentum. How easily we succumbed was dismaying, but I doubt any team would have stemmed that flow a lot better -maybe I'm wrong there- we were post WA fatigued, and just had no zip.

 

[bombersboy]

Duncan and Danger don't belong on that list.

Nor does Blicavs. He has had a poor year but missed a good bit if not all of preseason plus I think has carried an injury most of the year.