Preview Changes: R15 vs North Melbourne, Sunday June 26, 12.40pm ACST in Tasmania

[WaynesWorld19]

I sometimes wonder if Burgess and co have a long term licence with some of our developing players.

We all talk about the preseason training period which is intense. Training is then moderated into skills development and finally into in season match preparation on a weekly basis.

Some players however, might be on prolonged aerobic fitness, strength or a body building regime. In short, players like Pedlar and Sholl might not be expected to perform highly this year as Burgess takes the year to help them become better players. Pedlar with more endurance would be a better player. Sholl with more burst strength would be a better player. You get my drift... These physical adaptations take time and their actual game time during the season might often be under duress caused by deliberate high training loads each week.

The training priority for Tex, as an example would be totally different to Sholl or Pedlar.

I see Burgess as an important part of player development and if performance is measured over a career, I can understand why some players don't look to be coming on as quickly as we would like.

It's historically well known, Burgess has the biggest impact in season 2 .....as he knows players better & their individual requirements

Same as MELB this year, they're still benefitting from Burgo's impact this year ......the new Sports Manager at MELB gets to show his wares moreso season 2

Sholl's issue was never fitness, nor skills .....it's his contested footy, same issue as Atkins

 

[Gtowncrow]

Was that his 2nd game ? That's what a rebuild is about
Young talented guys getting a run to see how they go against the best

...and learning. Rankine when hot would test most defenders.
Paddy couldn't be dropped this week. He already looks a best 22 lock in the making.

P.s. of our defenders, Smith and Doedee should hang their heads after last week. Don't blame the second game player.

 

[awesome wells]

Please go easy on us guys

 

[walterhobbs]

Please go easy on us guys

We must be serious if we are dropping Coruch

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

You forgot Davis.

Ben Davis was given an extra year
1) To provide a bit more experience in our Twos.
2) To shift a list position from the 2021 to 2022 draft.

He is doing his job well and might get the odd run as the medi-sub.

The Crouch rumour is a signal that we are “thinking” about our midfield mix. Anyone want to bet he isn’t at a heap of stoppages against the Kangaroos?

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Please go easy on us guys

I'm hoping you guys win it.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I am expecting a world record melt on Thursday/Friday. It is possible that we will see a shell explosion from the hirsute mollusk?

Lets just wait and see..

But if recent history is anything to go by.. your pretty much guaranteed the selection commitee will once again provide a head scratcher or two..

 

[Bearded Clam]

If this is correct .....2nd time in a season ....he'll realise, club realises, he's almost a 100% trade happening at season end

How the heck is a trade gonna happen?..

Who’s gonna want him?..

No one wanted him last year when they couldve grabbed him for free..

As if anyones gonna trade anything for him given what he’s showed so fsr this season..

We wont even be able to give him away.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Not the changes that I would make but

Parnell was slaughtered by Rankine and Brown was very good in the SANFL

Murray has struggled since returning to the AFL, Big Billy has been good in the Twos

No need to play an injured Thilthorpe, The Berg is the only Key Forward/Back up Ruck available.

Rachele seemed totally off the pace and Murphy had more impact in just over a quarter than Josh’s entire match.

Hately a bit unlucky but didn’t really do much to hold his spot.

In fact you could mount an argument to drop everyone except Tex, Berry, Dawson and Laird (and I know at least one poster who would drop Laird).

Theres no chance laird gets dropped and I wouldnt want him to be.. he’s in our best 22..

What I want is for him to be moved out of the Cb’s/midfield main “go to” group and the younger players given a go there..

 

[Mutineer]

What are you showing me? I didn’t watch the game but I read reports and even Rowey said one of the rucks he went up against was much shorter, hence why I asked if there were 2 rucks.

Ballenden was the main WWT ruck for that match, I did watch the game, no doubt he had a player/players chop out for him at times as is normal practice......No different to Strachan who had Himmelberg chop out for him on the weekend the same as he did for ROB in the WTT game.

Tex chops out in ruck in the forward line on occasions are you suggesting he's a ruckman.

 

[Geoffa32]

Because his best is better than anything Strachan has ever produced at both AFL and SANFL level. No way Strachan would have competed any better with one of the most in form rucks in the AFL the 209cm 111kg Jarrod Witts on the weekend.

I thought RoB did ok given Witts is not far off AA form, and a big reason for the Suns run of form.

I know hitouts is a very raw stat, but when GC played Melbourne Witts had 38 Hitouts to Gawn/Jackson having 34 combined.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Geoffa32]

Will be a tragedy if Hately is dropped.

Given he was moved all over the ground against the ground, everywhere but midfield, they will think he can't play a role and drop him.




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[Geoffa32]

I sometimes wonder if Burgess and co have a long term licence with some of our developing players.

We all talk about the preseason training period which is intense. Training is then moderated into skills development and finally into in season match preparation on a weekly basis.

Some players however, might be on prolonged aerobic fitness, strength or a body building regime. In short, players like Pedlar and Sholl might not be expected to perform highly this year as Burgess takes the year to help them become better players. Pedlar with more endurance would be a better player. Sholl with more burst strength would be a better player. You get my drift... These physical adaptations take time and their actual game time during the season might often be under duress caused by deliberate high training loads each week.

The training priority for Tex, as an example would be totally different to Sholl or Pedlar.

I see Burgess as an important part of player development and if performance is measured over a career, I can understand why some players don't look to be coming on as quickly as we would like.

I hope you are right.

Burgessvand his group are the best performers at our club. Very few, any?, soft tissue issues this year. We are a very fit side.


Shane McAdam is the poster child for this group. Our most improved player this year. Looks trimmer and doing more work up and down the ground. Which ultimately helps his forward craft.



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[jenny61_99]

Will be a tragedy if Hately is dropped.

Given he was moved all over the ground against the ground, everywhere but midfield, they will think he can't play a role and drop him.




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They need to play Dawson on the wing. Which means Hately has to play middle. Get rid of Crouch, voila, problem solved.

 

[Hodgy]

I thought RoB did ok given Witts is not far off AA form, and a big reason for the Suns run of form.

I know hitouts is a very raw stat, but when GC played Melbourne Witts had 38 Hitouts to Gawn/Jackson having 34 combined.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

My issue with ROB and the other 3 starting mids is not that they don’t give everything or have strengths, it’s 3 problems.

1. All 4 are slow and have below average disposal, which kills the development of our forwards, and hurts our defense on turnover.
2. Not one of them can play anywhere else, so that if they are in the team then they have to play full time mid, hurting the development of our young mids.
3. We drafted a guy with pick 1 who‘s strengths are clearly more as an athletic ruckman than as a key forward, and he can’t play that role while we have ROB.

 

[Geoffa32]

They need to play Dawson on the wing. Which means Hately has to play middle. Get rid of Crouch, voila, problem solved.

And Cook on the other wing. Drop Rowe. Rowe is "busy " but zero hurt factor.

McHenry out for Gollant. Gollant is a natural leading forward, our best one.


With Sog and Rachele we don't need Rowe and McHenry. Playing four of these guys, with Murphy as sub is too many.

Sog and Rachele far classier and capable of playing the dual forward/mid role

As is Shane McAdam. Who also plays this role.




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[CrowBloke]

Some players however, might be on prolonged aerobic fitness, strength or a body building regime. In short, players like Pedlar and Sholl might not be expected to perform highly this year as Burgess takes the year to help them become better players.

You made a very interesting point about players' varying stages of fitness/endurance under Burgess . It could be that the Club is being more patient with their development than us, the supporters --- I feel great frustration about where they are and how they are playing. My frustration is not about their fitness.

However, we're still stuck with 3 major problems:
--- bewildering selection policies that favour underperforming senior players
--- game positional mysteries that put juniors out-of-position to accommodate underperforming senior players, and
--- their poor kicking skill level.
None of those things are within Burgess' realm.
Also, while Burgess might be helping them to become fitter players, that will not necessarily make them "better players", especially wrt skill level and execution.
What do you reckon?

 

[Geoffa32]

My issue with ROB and the other 3 starting mids is not that they don’t give everything or have strengths, it’s 3 problems.

1. All 4 are slow and have below average disposal, which kills the development of our forwards, and hurts our defense on turnover.
2. Not one of them can play anywhere else, so that if they are in the team then they have to play full time mid, hurting the development of our young mids.
3. We drafted a guy with pick 1 who‘s strengths are clearly more as an athletic ruckman than as a key forward, and he can’t play that role while we have ROB.

Tilthorpe is not ready to be lead Ruck. No 20 year old is. Until he is he needs to play the Ruck/KPF role. Like Luke Jackson's development. Just don't expect big goal hauls from him, and appreciate his Ruck and midfield work more as supporters.

Ruck is his future.


You put more agile mids/wingers around RoB and that dynamic changes.


I personally see our best midfield/wing rotation group as Keays, Laird, Hately, Berry, Dawson, Cook, Rachele, Soglio and then Schoenberg (when he gets out of his form slump), Pedlar.

Still need at least one, but ideally two genuine top end elite mids though.


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[CrowBloke]

Please go easy on us guys

Hi David .

I saw with interest that in late May your CEO, "Amarfio, said head coach David Noble, who is in his second season at the Kangaroos, had the support of every key stakeholder at Arden Street. "The coach has our backing, has my backing, has the board's backing and… has the players backing."" (Google).

That means you'll be gone, soon.

 

[Bearded Clam]

My issue with ROB and the other 3 starting mids is not that they don’t give everything or have strengths, it’s 3 problems.

1. All 4 are slow and have below average disposal, which kills the development of our forwards, and hurts our defense on turnover.
2. Not one of them can play anywhere else, so that if they are in the team then they have to play full time mid, hurting the development of our young mids.
3. We drafted a guy with pick 1 who‘s strengths are clearly more as an athletic ruckman than as a key forward, and he can’t play that role while we have ROB.

I gave this comment a like but just on point 3..

If we have spent pick 2 (1) on a ruckman then we might aswell fold the flipping club..

I still see TT as a KPF first and foremost and a back up ruck..

Its far too soon to be writing him off as a KPF.. and claiming his only future is as a mobile ruckman.

 

[CrowBloke]

I thought RoB did ok given Witts is not far off AA form, and a big reason for the Suns run of form.

I know hitouts is a very raw stat, but when GC played Melbourne Witts had 38 Hitouts to Gawn/Jackson having 34 combined.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

In fact, some teams are going "ruckless", eg PA. This is interesting:

How going without a ruck is helping Port move the ball, and why it might impact the rest of the league

As Port Adelaide takes a no-ruck approach to their footy, Cody Atkinson and Sean Lawson ask whether the move is sustainable - and will other clubs follow suit?

www.abc.net.au

 

[Hodgy]

Tilthorpe is not ready to be lead Ruck. No 20 year old is. Until he is he needs to play the Ruck/KPF role. Like Luke Jackson's development. Just don't expect big goal hauls from him, and appreciate his Ruck and midfield work more as supporters.

Ruck is his future.


You put more agile mids/wingers around RoB and that dynamic changes.


I personally see our best midfield/wing rotation group as Keays, Laird, Hately, Berry, Dawson, Cook, Rachele, Soglio and then Schoenberg (when he gets out of his form slump), Pedlar.

Still need at least one, but ideally two genuine top end elite mids though.


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I agree in principal but Grundy was lead ruck at 20, so was Tom de KoNing, and he is not as well built as Tillthorpe. However I would love to see us trade ROB for a ruckman like Xerri or Preuss, who can be damaging forward as well, so that we can ease Riley more and more into the role as we feel he’s ready. It might be 70/30 now and say 50/50 next year, however ROB just isn’t dangerous as a forward, so Riley spends 10% there and has zero hurt factor the rest of the time.

 

[Hodgy]

I gave this comment a like but just on point 3..

If we have spent pick 2 (1) on a ruckman then we might aswell fold the f*n club..

I still see TT as a KPF first and foremost and a back up ruck..

Its far too soon to be writing him off as a KPF.. and claiming his only future is as a mobile ruckman.

A dominant ruck is way more important to a team than a key forward. Anyone can kick goals if you control the midfield.
Melbourne are 100x more dependent on Gawn playing well than Brown, and I always felt that Dean Cox was West Coasts most important player in their premiership years.
I was against us drafting Tillthorpe purely because we have ROB, not because he isn’t going to be a star, and I’m pretty sure that we will all appreciate him much more in a couple of years when he is 100% rucking. If we wanted a key forward then we should taken McDonald.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Crouch to be dropped this week

Won't all the players be really angry?

 

[Bearded Clam]

A dominant ruck is way more important to a team than a key forward. Anyone can kick goals if you control the midfield.
Melbourne are 100x more dependent on Gawn playing well than Brown, and I always felt that Dean Cox was West Coasts most important player in their premiership years.
I was against us drafting Tillthorpe purely because we have ROB, not because he isn’t going to be a star, and I’m pretty sure that we will all appreciate him much more in a couple of years when he is 100% rucking. If we wanted a key forward then we should taken McDonald.

Look at the recent flag winners..
Richmond, west coast, dogs (nicnat didnt play in 2018) and dees..

Only one, the dees, have had a dominant top line ruckman..

The rest did just fine without one.

And what pick was Gawn taken with in the draft?.. in the 30’s wasnt it?