Unofficial Preview Changes V Carlton: White omitted, Marsh injured, Moore and Goldsack in

[jackcass]

You can't understand why we are getting games into Moore over White?

I can understand why we are getting games into Moore and accept that there is a cost which must be borne to do so but I just disagree that that in and of itself merits an automatic inclusion back into the seniors after an extended injury layoff, especially at the expense of a player who over the last few weeks has performed well. If White had been stinking it up then you could make a case but he's been a very solid contributor since he's returned to the senior line-up.

 

[Maggie5]

First week of the Cox - Cloke - White combo and I think they're entitled to an opportunity to bed down the systems.

And the fact Moore apparently works harder (according to your assessment) yet impacts less surely means time in the VFL honing his craft won't hurt him occasionally.

Works harder by taking his opponent away from Cox and Cloke (thus providing an option) or alternatively goes to the contest so they are not double teamed.
White does neither.
The two goals White got in the last quarter were gimme goals and he put them through. I don't see him as the future.
Anyway, this is just my opinion and you of course are entitled to yours.

 

[jackcass]

Moore - 14 goals from 10 games
White - 10 goals from 8 games.

One averages 1.4 goals per game, the other averages 1.3...... such a slight difference it's hardly worth dwelling on.

White has been getting more of the ball than Darcy though.

One played 1 game in defense and generally plays a lot higher, even has rotations playing on the wing, the other rarely ventures outside F50. Cloke will now need to play higher to offset that contribution from White.

 

[jackcass]

Works harder by taking his opponent away from Cox and Cloke (thus providing an option) or alternatively goes to the contest so they are not double teamed.
White does neither.
The two goals White got in the last quarter were gimme goals and he put them through. I don't see him as the future.
Anyway, this is just my opinion and you of course are entitled to yours.

So we're grooming him to be a decoy rather than a KPF? At least that explains why he doesn't get a lot of the footy.

 

[Maggie5]

So we're grooming him to be a decoy rather than a KPF? At least that explains why he doesn't get a lot of the footy.

Cherries are out of season in Victoria.

 

[Ketchup]

Moore hasn't had to earn his spot his entire career. Although it's the wrong decision, it's no surprise for me.

 

[jackcass]

I think people need to consider the economic reality that more people will go to the footy to watch Moore play than White.

Who is or isn't in the side has no bearing on my decision to go to the footy.

 

[The Dawes]

But let's face the reality here, Darcy Moore was always going to be selected.

We are rebuilding, yet again, whether anyone wants to admit it, and thus we need to get as many senior games into our gun youngsters as we can.

We are rebuilding and yes Darcy needs games to develop, but to be honest my main priority is seeing us beat Carlton tomorrow.

On balance, given their respective outputs lately (and I can't believe I'm saying this), I think Jesse White gives us a slightly better chance of beating Carlton than Darcy Moore or at the very least there is no compelling reason for Darcy Moore to take his spot for this week's game.

Sincerely hope to be wrong though.

 

[FireKrakouer]

I think we could have Dangerfield and Buddy as ins and there would still be melts in our weekly changes thread.

 

[Maggie5]

Not sure what the problem is about insisting players coming back through the VFL, players surely are trained better nowadays.

WB don't seem to have a problem bring Johannisen straight in following hamstring injury and 9 weeks? out.

 

[Maggie5]

Moore hasn't had to earn his spot his entire career. Although it's the wrong decision, it's no surprise for me.

Given that opinion then at the height of our injuries, you would have preferred us play one short?

 

[Finnishpie]

Will White be sent to defence again in the VFL, to help round out his game? Seems likely to me -- fill in the role Marsh was playing.

 

[neilk]

But let's face the reality here, Darcy Moore was always going to be selected.

We are rebuilding, yet again, whether anyone wants to admit it, and thus we need to get as many senior games into our gun youngsters as we can.

I don't think Hawthorn go by this getting games into youngsters in the AFL. They seem to let them develop at Box Hill and then when they are brought in they seem to be up to speed straight away. It's a different philosophy but it seems to work for them.

 

[Ketchup]

Given that opinion then at the height of our injuries, your would have preferred us play one short?

Nah. I would have just played White.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I don't think Hawthorn go by this getting games into youngsters in the AFL. They seem to let them develop at Box Hill and then when they are brought in they seem to be up to speed straight away. It's a different philosophy but it seems to work for them.

But aren't their youngsters playing in the VFL by default?
The Hawks AFL side has been so good, its difficult to drop any of their senior players

 

[mattys123]

I don't think Hawthorn go by this getting games into youngsters in the AFL. They seem to let them develop at Box Hill and then when they are brought in they seem to be up to speed straight away. It's a different philosophy but it seems to work for them.

We aren't Hawthorn, unfortunately.

We are a bottom 6 side at the moment, so therefore our approach is remarkably different to anyone of about 6-7 clubs who believe they are close to winning a flag.

Moore is playing above White simply based off future potential, and I agree with the decision.

Now if all our forwards were fit, and we were leaving out a clear best 22 player for Moore, than I'd get the argument more, but Jesse White, please, like Cloke, there's no future there.

And on Cloke, if he was the one who was dropped for Moore this week I'd be saying the same thing.

 

[CFC2010]

I don't think Hawthorn go by this getting games into youngsters in the AFL. They seem to let them develop at Box Hill and then when they are brought in they seem to be up to speed straight away. It's a different philosophy but it seems to work for them.

How many games did Buddy play in the VFL?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Moore hasn't had to earn his spot his entire career. Although it's the wrong decision, it's no surprise for me.

I dont have a problem with that as a general rule. The same people who complain that player x or player y gets gifted free games is often the same person who whinges we dont put enough effort into developing youth.

Getting games into Moore is fine. Same goes for a number of kids on our team. DeGoey, Maynard to name a few, they have their ups and downs but getting games into them helps fast track development.

I just dont think we should be putting this weeks game into Moore.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Moore - 14 goals from 10 games
White - 10 goals from 8 games.

One averages 1.4 goals per game, the other averages 1.3...... such a slight difference it's hardly worth dwelling on.

White has been getting more of the ball than Darcy though.

Do they record stats on missing goals when the team needs it the most during crucial stages in the match? Or missed tackles or not working hard enough at the contest?

The amount of key moments where white fails or kicks a point, or let's the team down.... well it just doesn't happen very often with Moore. That alone for me separates them massively.

White should be dominating Moore with his experience yet he is barely keeping up with a 20 year old with 19 games to his career.

Surprised people would prefer white over Moore, really.

 

[jackcass]

We aren't Hawthorn, unfortunately.

We are a bottom 6 side at the moment, so therefore our approach is remarkably different to anyone of about 6-7 clubs who believe they are close to winning a flag.

Moore is playing above White simply based off future potential, and I agree with the decision.

Now if all our forwards were fit, and we were leaving out a clear best 22 player for Moore, than I'd get the argument more, but Jesse White, please, like Cloke, there's no future there.

And on Cloke, if he was the one who was dropped for Moore this week I'd be saying the same thing.

So your advocating we apply a lesser standard purely because of our ladder position?

 

[Apex36]

So your advocating we apply a lesser standard purely because of our ladder position?

It's less about standards, and more about priorities. When you're a top 4 side who's a legitimate premiership contender you can afford to let your young talent go on a slow burn in the two's.

 

[jackcass]

It's less about standards, and more about priorities. When you're a top 4 side who's a legitimate premiership contender you can afford to let your young talent go on a slow burn in the two's.

In our case I actually think it's less about priorities and more about imperatives but doubt either of those should impact standards. A few guys are getting games at the moment due to injury or poor form issues to those more senior players who should be keeping them out. At seasons start we only had the bare 22 or so 50+ gamers on the list and a few of those have had poor senior seasons for a number of reasons. In an ideal world Moore would be getting games as the 3rd tall forward behind Cloke and White instead of the 1st or 2nd as he has been most of the season and he'd have Elliott, Swan, and Fasolo keeping him company in the F50.

 

[surfer1]

The problem for White is he just wasn't kicking goals.

Yes he got 2 last week but one was when the game was all over.

Prior to that he had returns of 0,0,1 and then 2 (vs Freo).

Moore's return is a lot more consistent. Before getting injured he' kicked at least one goal in his last 7 senior games. Sorry but for a second year kid in a struggling side that's a bloody good return.

Moore if fit, had to play, just had to, we are already missing Swan, Fasolo and Ellliot out of that forward line, so to leave Moore out, our future star and most consistent goal kicker (outside of those 3 injured) would have been a mistake.

On form, White was the one to go out for Moore, I don't see the argument here at all.

I believe Moore will end this season as our second leading goal kicker behind Fasolo.

Agree with everything you have said except for the omission of the Cox factor, 15 goals 7 from his first nine games

Wouldn't it be amazing if Moore, Cox gel together in the forward thrusts in the future

 

[mattys123]

Agree with everything you have said except for the omission of the Cox factor, 15 goals 7 from his first nine games

Wouldn't it be amazing if Moore, Cox gel together in the forward thrusts in the future

I didn't mention Cox because there's no need to, he's our second ruck, keeping Witts out of the side at the moment, quite easily keeping him out too.

I never thought Cox would reach the levels he's at now really, let alone the potential growth that exists now he's reached a competent level already.

I'd just like to see Cox played in the ruck more, his ruck tap work is as good as any at the club, and would allow Grundy to work on his forward game a little more also.

 

[surfer1]

I didn't mention Cox because there's no need to, he's our second ruck, keeping Witts out of the side at the moment, quite easily keeping him out too.

I never thought Cox would reach the levels he's at now really, let alone the potential growth that exists now he's reached a competent level already.

I'd just like to see Cox played in the ruck more, his ruck tap work is as good as any at the club, and would allow Grundy to work on his forward game a little more also.

I was having a bit of a joke, agree with you