List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[Matt_352]

I think I'll have to respectfully agree to disagree on that one. If we can get Tom Lynch, we'd be scary, and Tom Lynch is a far rarer commodity than Breust,
Opposition clubs would be absolutely shitting dacks with a good midfield delivering to Moore/Lynch or Wright. One can only dream.
And I still think another KPF is a need, Moore is still bambi in terms of physical development. Needs a few years in the gym.

Tom Lynch or even Wright could be that final missing piece. I mean we do need a good crumber and a couple of young quality tall backs as well but Lynch or Wright would be Huge

 

[TW Sherrin]

Well done.
I have a feeling that's Dal Santo for some reason.

yeh it was just looked it up.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...-until-next-week/story-fnjbnts5-1226738215441

"The AFL have given us the undertaking that if both parties, that's St Kilda and Nick, choose to tear up that clause, and make it null and void, Nick would be declared a free agent," Petroro said.

The player manager said that was a possibility.

"It would have to be a mutual agreement. If that means the best deal is achieved for all parties, then yes (he might become a free agent)."

 

[frizzle]

Yep, not keen on him going. He is the designated whipping boy in the match day threads but that doesn't make him expendable. Regardless of what we in here think of his foot skills, the team needs him.

Yes his foot skills are poor but we shouldn't be kicking backwards to him in the defensive 50 & then wonder why we turned the ball over. Take him away from that role & move him elsewhere when we have the footy. Just allow him to defend one on one with the dangerous forwards & he will do just fine. We lose both Brown & Frost then the likes of Franklin, Hawkins, Cameron & the 2 Reiwoldt's will kick big bags of goals against us on a regular basis. So it will be even more difficult to beat teams who have top notch tall forwards.

 

[TheSierBear]

Tom Lynch or even Wright could be that final missing piece. I mean we do need a good crumber and a couple of young quality tall backs as well but Lynch or Wright would be Huge

Yep, it will depend on how Cox develops. My original point was we are bringing in Mayne and Wells, WHE through trade. Elliott back from injury, plus we'll be investing in Daicos and apparently looking to recruit crumbers with other picks. That's more than enough investment.
But Tom Lynch, whoa... that'd be absolutely insane.

 

[mike123]

We need Cox to come on too. If he can.

I see what you did there.

 

[Mongo Ming]

This is what Gary Buckenara wrote last year about us:

COLLINGWOOD has had its two-year finals sabbatical and now it’s time for the Pies to return to September action.

Nathan Buckley has a number of quality young players on his list and the sky is the limit for the group next season – finals are a non-negotiable and even challenging for a premiership isn’t out of the question.

The Pies have promised a fair bit – everyone at the club says they’re happy with what they’ve got and are excited about what the team can do going forward – but the fact is they’ve dropped away two years in a row.

It was inexperience that cost them this season, while bad luck with injuries also played a role but as a club internally, they’d still be disappointed.

There’s some real class in the midfield led by Scott Pendlebury, up forward with Jamie Elliott and Steele Sidebottom is a clever player to name a couple. But on the list as a whole I agree with them – there is some real upside and now they just need to start delivering.

What has held them back a bit – and I’ll go into this in a bit more depth a bit later in this column – is that their ball movement stalls or gets cut off because there aren’t enough penetrating kickers in the team.

There are good young players in Darcy Moore, Brayden Maynard, Jonathon Marsh and Matthew Scharenberg who will be a very, very good player. Travis Varcoe has added something, Marley Williams provides good run from defence but can be erratic with his kicking and Tom Langdon reads the ball really well but needs to work on getting a better punch into his use by foot.

In terms of trading, GWS midfielder Adam Treloar is expected to arrive and he’s a really good player who’ll add something more to Pendlebury, Levi Greenwood, Taylor Adams, Jack Crisp and Jordan De Goey. In terms of trade value though, it’s expected the Pies with give up their first-round picks in 2015 and 2016 and get a second-round pick back but to me, pick No. 7 this year would have been adequate to secure him. It would be fair and reasonable compensation.

In this draft, to get a pick inside 10 is very, very good value particularly because of the lack of depth in it and that adds value.

With the addition of Treloar, the midfield is very good. In terms of James Aish who also wants to head to the Pies, I’m not convinced. He’s not overly quick but does have good skills. Overall though, I think they have enough of his type.

Forwards are more a priority and Melbourne’s Jeremy Howe is a very good fit. He can slot into that forward role and present a genuine marking option to take the heat off Travis Cloke a bit.

Paul Seedsman wants to go to Adelaide and they’d be after a pick inside No. 30 for him. A second-round pick for Nathan Freeman is also around the mark although they are disappointed to lose him.

All in all, Buckley has a very talented group to work with in 2016 but talent only takes you so far. The Pies must deliver on promise and play finals.

WHAT THEY NEED
There is a reasonable balance to Collingwood’s list but the priorities for me would be another key forward and key defender and line-breakers with pace and who use the ball well.

It goes without saying that the Pies are still too reliant on Cloke and Jesse White who goes missing too often. Moore will develop into a nice key position player but need to put on a bit of weight but I think they need to add another one.

If Ben Reid can get himself right then that puts the Pies in a much better position but I think another key defender wouldn’t go astray.

The Pies have quite a few in-and-under types –Adams, Greenwood, Jarryd Blair, Maynard is tough but is also a lovely kick, even Dane Swan is that type of player, so that is where the line-breakers and good ball users who add class become important.

Collingwood have too many guys who have what we call “slow kicks”. They can kick it ok but it has too much height on it and gives the opposition a chance to cut them off. More players who really punch the ball when they kick it so it gets there fast are important for the Pies.

WHO’S UNDER THE PUMP

Jackson Ramsay is under the pump despite showing good signs earlier this year given he has been there since 2012. He needs to get his body right after missing so many games with a shin injury. The same goes for Ben Sinclair who has consistently battled soft tissue injuries and has only played 11 games in his last two years.

WHO SHOULD GO
Sam Dwyer, Clinton Young, Tony Armstrong and Michael Manteit have already been delisted and they’ve made the right calls there because all those guys were on my list as under the pump for 2016. Patrick Karnezis was also on the list but he’s opted to retire. Other than that it’s hard to say because the Pies do have such a young list, I need to see more of these kids.

CRYSTAL BALL

For mine, the Pies have been disappointing the last couple of years even though they have been in a bit of a development/re-jig mode. It’s time for them to start delivering.

I seem them being a contender next year – as I said earlier as a minimum should play finals in 2016 – but if not next year in terms of challenging then definitely in 2-3 years the Pies should be knocking on the door of winning a premiership.

There should be good times ahead and not just as one year on, one year off. Collingwood look set for sustained success with the group of talented young players they’ve assembled plus the football a guy like Dane Swan still has left to offer. I reckon he’s got a few more years left in him yet.

LACHIE KEEFFE AND JOSH THOMAS

They’ve been delisted by the Pies who have committed to bringing them back via the rookie draft and I think that’s a really smart move. They were showing really good signs as players – Keeffe as that key position player they need and Thomas as another midfielder. They made a terrible mistake but I believe because of the talent they’ve shown, they’re definitely worth a second chance.

That's a real Captain Obvious article and I think even Blind Freddy could see we recruited too many tall inside mids.

However that leads to another question. Is Hine only astute at picking the "best available" player at our pick (as is his mantra), and poor at reading and executing picks based on our list balance?

 

[Anzacday]

yeh it was just looked it up.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...-until-next-week/story-fnjbnts5-1226738215441

"The AFL have given us the undertaking that if both parties, that's St Kilda and Nick, choose to tear up that clause, and make it null and void, Nick would be declared a free agent," Petroro said.

The player manager said that was a possibility.

"It would have to be a mutual agreement. If that means the best deal is achieved for all parties, then yes (he might become a free agent)."

Here's what they got...
St Kilda – Round Two Selection (Nick Dal Santo).
The selection for Nick Dal Santo will be immediately placed behind the Round Two selection of St Kilda in the indicative NAB AFL Draft Selection Order that was supplied after the Grand Final (as a note to media, this selection will now be inserted at number 25, with all following selections now dropping down by four positions).

 

[dlammardo]

Because he doesn't kick enough goals and it robs us of his run and carry.

As I said, if the younger mids & half backs take another step, losing his run and carry would not be an issue. I'd be perfectly fine with him kicking a goal a game if it means reducing oppos rebound 50s through his pressure and creating goals be it off his own boot or setting someone up once the ball hits the ground.

The amount of times in the past two seasons we've allowed team to waltz put of our fwd 50 is frustrating. Once the ball hits the ground, our forwards seem frozen

 

[Maggie5]

That's a real Captain Obvious article and I think even Blind Freddy could see we recruited too many tall inside mids.

However that leads to another question. Is Hine only astute at picking the "best available" player at our pick (as is his mantra), and poor at reading and executing picks based on our list balance?

Was just really posting for comparison, this current article has a lot more depth.

 

[Kabana]

ho became very important players in premiership years.

Anyone know Keeffe's status at the moment? He was developing nicely until the yay yo struck him down

 

[TradeDraft]

Anyone know Keeffe's status at the moment? He was developing nicely until the yay yo struck him down

Waiting for November when he can go back to the Club

 

[mike123]

Gibsons slow.

He breaks lines regularly.

 

[Matt_352]

Yep, it will depend on how Cox develops. My original point was we are bringing in Mayne and Wells, WHE through trade. Elliott back from injury, plus we'll be investing in Daicos and apparently looking to recruit crumbers with other picks. That's more than enough investment.
But Tom Lynch, whoa... that'd be absolutely insane.

Id like us to rejuvenate our talls this draft. Logue, Battle and one of McCarthy or Maibum

 

[Maggie5]

Changed his Tune on a Few Players. Really Changed his Tune on Aish

Think he will be proved wrong on Ramsey too. I really like him.

 

[Mongo Ming]

Was just really posting for comparison, this current article has a lot more depth.

Don't get me wrong I appreciated you posting the article. I thought he was off a little on some of the player ratings though. Surely Treloar is an A-grader by now for example

 

[mike123]

As I said, if the younger mids & half backs take another step, losing his run and carry would not be an issue. I'd be perfectly fine with him kicking a goal a game if it means reducing oppos rebound 50s through his pressure and creating goals be it off his own boot or setting someone up once the ball hits the ground.

The amount of times in the past two seasons we've allowed team to waltz put of our fwd 50 is frustrating. Once the ball hits the ground, our forwards seem frozen

It doesn't though, Varcoe played up forward most of the season and the opposition still rebounded easily.

 

[Hardas]

You mean he needs to elevate his game?

I won't tell you two again!

 

[Pedro]

yeh it was just looked it up.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...-until-next-week/story-fnjbnts5-1226738215441

"The AFL have given us the undertaking that if both parties, that's St Kilda and Nick, choose to tear up that clause, and make it null and void, Nick would be declared a free agent," Petroro said.

The player manager said that was a possibility.

"It would have to be a mutual agreement. If that means the best deal is achieved for all parties, then yes (he might become a free agent)."

I think the difference between Dal Santo and Cloke is that Dal Santo had an option in his contract for the further year if he met certain criteria. Hence, the reference to "tearing up the clause". Cloke actually has a contract for next year

 

[whiskeytown]

No one on their list besides Martin and maybe Riwoldt is elite or worth anything.

Rance is pretty handy. But yep can't see more than 3-4 tigers players being best 22 at Collingwood.

 

[Aishole]

He breaks lines regularly.

Not with his speed mate, with his kicking skills maybe. But gibson is by no means a 'line-breaker' and is not quick. Quick in the mind maybe, but not in terms of how fast his legs move in a running fashion.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Yes well the point is that supporting him in the process is not saving him from going to jail; and it's what you would expect a club to do. It was the judge who saved him from going to jail not Collingwood FC! We do have an independent judicial system last time I checked.

Doodles we do have an independent legal system, absolutely we do.
But any person in trouble with the law can have expert legal council, or average legal,council, or even poor legal council.
People Who are line ball with jail and have wonderful charachter references or none.
I've mentioned this before, and not judging the case at all, but former premier of nsw Neville wran's daughter was involved in a murder case. She, let's just say, spent small time in prison, and with great respect to other junkies, I'm positive her status of family, support, legal expertise certainly did not hinder her.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Not with his speed mate, with his kicking skills maybe. But gibson is by no means a 'line-breaker' and is not quick. Quick in the mind maybe, but not in terms of how fast his legs move in a running fashion.

Gibson is a close second to Lewis Taylor for the most U Turns in a season.

 

[good4footy]

The below is a comment on the Bulldogs by Brett Anderson on SEN.

“So look they’ve got 28 picks during that time (2010-2013) with 15 hits, 11 misses and 2 maybes for the number one ranked hit-rate in the competition (53.6%) – the only one above 50 per cent.“That’s why the Dogs are in a prelim final and how they’ve been able to regenerate their list better than anyone in the competition.”

Those figures surprise me. Obviously those stats are subjective but if that is the best a club has done across the league, I am very keen to top up to an extent with players like Wells etc that come for free as well as using picks. Going just to the draft with our young list and the experience we are losing, would be a recipe for disaster if the above figures are the best. It is a long way back if we don't bring in some best 22 experience.

I think picks we get for Cloke, Witts, Marley (if he goes) I would be keen on a mixture of WHE, Reid etc, plus Wells, Mayne (both for free), the father sons and any remain picks from the draft.

 

[carnthepies19]

Wouldn't mind taking a good look at Mitch Honeychurch for a straight swap for Clokey, maybe even us throwing in a late pick as a sweetener if Cloke doesn't get the job done. The kid looks good, and would be a definite upgrade on Blair.

 

[barrackers]

I think the difference between Dal Santo and Cloke is that Dal Santo had an option in his contract for the further year if he met certain criteria. Hence, the reference to "tearing up the clause". Cloke actually has a contract for next year

The other issue is the respective contracts at their new clubs. With Cloke only having a small money offer on the table any free agency compo would be negligible and I doubt we'd even get a pick.