List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
• AFL retirements and delistings

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Latest news and rumours

Done deals:

• Liam Baker and Matt Owies join West Coast in Pick 3 trade
  • In: Baker, Owies, 12, 73
  • Out: 3, 63, 68

• Jack Darling traded to North Melbourne for Pick 67

• Jack Graham joins West Coast as UFA

• Jake Waterman re-signs with West Coast until at least 2029

• Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones
  31

  Jamaine Jones

  Age

  26

  Ht

  180cm

  Wt

  80kg

  Pos.

  D/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  9.0

  2star

  K

  4.8

  2star

  HB

  4.2

  3star

  M

  2.1

  2star

  T

  3.8

  5star

  MG

  159.6

  3star

  D

  10.5

  3star

  K

  6.5

  3star

  HB

  4.0

  3star

  M

  2.5

  3star

  T

  4.0

  5star

  MG

  196.5

  3star

  D

  9.0

  3star

  K

  4.2

  2star

  HB

  4.8

  4star

  M

  2.4

  3star

  T

  4.2

  5star

  MG

  166.0

  3star

  and Jordyn Baker delisted

• Archer Reid (2027), Loch Rawlinson (2025), and Coen Livingstone (2025) sign extensions

 

[maverick001]

I think the problem for us is that (amongst other things) we were playing the no blinking game with two clubs (Richmond and Hawthorn) and may have felt we could only run one to the death tomorrow night.
I assume that because we "made promises" to Baker, we felt that we were obliged to complete that trade and not run it down to the wire.
Although I think this is optimistic, hopefully this means that we are prepared to run the Barrass deal to the last minutes to see if Hawthorn blinks.
I certainly agree with your assessment that the trades stand alone, and we're not going to make up for today's trade with anything that happens tomorrow.
However, hopefully we can salvage something from this wreckage and bring in two additional future first rounders, whether or not we trade back into this year or retain them for a larger draft haul next year.
It's still a net loss, but it at least improves the overall trade period for us (maybe moves the ranking from an F to a D or C-).
At least that's the logic I'm going to run with.

Problem is, if we don't do the Barrass trade, we've traded away draft capital without getting any back, which given our position is a disaster. Hawks need the trade less than us because they've got Battle for nothing now. We blink first

 

[maverick001]

Yet Hawthorn are now good again, and here’s how the top 10 in their best and fairest were acquired:

1. Jai Newcombe - pick 2, mid-season draft
2. Dylan Moore - pick 67, national draft
3. Jarman Impey - acquired for late 2nd and 3rd round picks
4. James Worpel - pick 45, national draft
5. Blake Hardwick - pick 44, national draft
6. Connor MacDonald - pick 26, national draft
7. Karl Amon - unrestricted free agent
8. Jack Scrimshaw - acquired with a 4th round pick for a 3rd round pick
9. Jack Ginnivan - basically acquired for moving up a few spots in the 2nd round and moving up from a 4th round to a 3rd round pick
10. Massimo D’ambrosio - acquired for Essendon moving up from a 4th round to a 3rd round pick


So look at that list. Only one premium pick (Scrimshaw), and he was very heavily devalued by the time Gold Coast traded him. Otherwise it’s a stack of mid-season and rookie draftees and late round picks, and astute trades.

Point being that hoarding high draft picks is far from the only way to build a good side up from the ashes.

Yes but they've got Sam Mitchell in charge. What do we have?

 

[Keys]

Consider hawks very smart trading.

They cashed in on carltons desperation for pick 3, landing the extra F2.

If they pay up F1 and F2 for tommy, they’ve paid with carltons F2.

I hope we’re pushing for both the F2 picks they’re holding. Even if it means giving our F3 back

If, and this is unconfirmed, their offer was 14 and F2 for Barrass and F3 then we take what they got for 14 (Carlton’s F1 and F2) plus the F2 they offered

Question is are we ruthless enough to force that to the last half hour so they blink or do we cave first. I know what posters here will think

 

[maverick001]

On the contrary.

Hawks need to get the trade over the line, for several reasons:

They did the smart arse thing blowing the trade period up, would be a pointless exercise should they not land TB, not a good look in the Industry going forward, getting caught playing silly buggers.

• Hawks gave TB the commitment that they could get the trade done, not a good look coming up short, for other player thinking about a similar move. Hawthorn might be a club to avoid.

• Player Managers will have taken note, if you commit to a player and they don't do the deal - Red Flag for the future, as managers will be reluctant to advise their clients, to consider Hawks advances.

• Now this is not insignificant: Paul Conners who happens to own and operate one of the biggest AFL player management business, who manage TB. Conners phoned Hawthorn and gave them an absolute spray, for their little stunt Friday afternoon trading pick 14. Told them if they phone him up about trading one of his players from another Club in the future he will just hang up the phone and not return their calls.

Fair to say the onus in on the Poo's and Wee's to get this trade done to restore some semblance of credibility to their name as trading partners, both with other Clubs, Players and Player Managers.

We are in the driving seat with this one, we want get rogered over this trade, worst case TB is an Eagle in 2025.
TB will know that we were not the ones who blew up the trade.

My guess is that we trade TB to Hawthorn for a F1 & F2, deal goes down 20 minutes before the bell rings.

I hope you're right re the spray from Conners. Seems to have as much clout in the player manager space as anyone

 

[flamingEMBERS]

If we are even thinking about going for Warner next year(we are) then we HAVE to trade out our own f1 for picks this year.

Hopefully that means our f1 for 10+18, giving us 10+12+18+26+Champion in the draft this year.
Add Travaglia, Lindsay, Hynes and a KPD. Thats most bases covered, just the midfield to finish with Warner and a ruckman to find.

Whatever or however many f1s we have next year, Warner will wipe us out of the draft, and likely at least partially out of the 2026 draft. If we keep our f1 we have to use it on Warner, and means we are 2 first round picks(10+18) worse off by the start of 2026. Id rather get access to them now than in 2026/2027

If we dont get Warner then we lost, we split a top 4-6 pick for nothing, but id rather guarantee 10+18 so we can complete the list in the hopes we can get Warner than be fighting over whether we really want Warner or the draft more.


Edit: we have seen how our management handles players we "commit to" when trading now with Baker, I have no doubt we would absolutely trade 4 first round picks for Warner which is obviously overs. Gotta take the option away from ourselves.

Quite depressing that our f1 is only worth 10 & 18 but agree whole heartedly that if we think/know Warner is coming it’s the smart move.

Probably bring it forward and it will be the top pick and Warner changes his mind

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Does anybody have the slightest bit of faith in us doing well in the TB deal tomorrow now?

It's like when I go to my 'special' club in Northbridge. We've shown our true colours and everyone in the circle trade room can now take advantage of us one by one.

 

[Bacchus]

I'm gunna grab that pig and paint its lips bright red. We don't really know what the overall plan is - the club's not going to tell us, because they're certainly not going to tell the entire world. The plan might be completely ****ed, but if so, there's a lot of people putting their names on it right now.

We can judge after the fact, but a lot of stuff is sheer fluke. We got one of the top three players in the 2010 draft even though it was screwed up by Gold Coast. Oh, and at rookie pick 44 (we also got a pretty good player at 4). We've had amazing players in the top 5 - Judd, Nat, probably H.Reid. We've had players that were just good role players like Banfield and Masten.

Picks around 12 can get real class, when they're players that were just a little behind their peers in development (and that doesn't mean bottom-aged, just how fast they can develop). I wanted to see who we'd get at 3, but now I just don't care. Let's see how #12 goes. Let's give Baker and Owies a shot. Let's hope that Hawthorn blink tomorrow morning and give us two x F1 and no returns and we can maybe rattle some cages with that and our F1.

Sure, for a pick in the 10s, we might get Jarrod Brander. But we could also get Darren Glass or Daniel Kerr or Luke Shuey. Beau Waters or Shannon Hurn. A new Sheed or Duggan even would improve our list.

Yeah, that trade looks crap, but we won't know for a couple of years probably.

I don’t think there is any”plan” it’s just words to keep the wolves at bay.

The best plan I’ve heard is the one about trading our future first to Richmond but I don’t think our list team would be thinking about it because they’ve made a commitment to Warner.

 

[InTheWings]

Say we do somehow secure two F1s from Hawthorn tomorrow, giving us three 2025 first round picks. Could we then head straight over to the Sydney mob and give them two of our 2025 F1s plus our 2025 F2 for Warner tomorrow?

 

[HoneyBadger35]

I think we need to reach competitive, we’re not there yet and it is a necessary step on the journey.
We just don’t want to plateau and get stuck at competitive.

This is the fear. We've gotten better, albeit without getting anywhere near maximum value from the assets.

Have we gotten better enough to avoid the St Kilda and Essendon tier of perpetually pushing to be relevant but never actually anywhere near a legitimate threat.

I keep coming back to 19 kids aged 21 and under on the list. Natural improvement in them, in a new game plan? The boys of the list is there, Who knows, maybe? But the plateau looks very ominous.

 

[Bender_]

It's like when I go to my 'special' club in Northbridge. We've shown our true colours and everyone in the circle trade room can now take advantage of us one by one.

 

[maverick001]

I think there will definitely be opportunities to trade with the Tigers, they will surely try to push some of there picks into next year.

If that was the case though why didn't we just deal Barrass for Hawks' future picks & pass those on to Tigers for Baker

 

[stallon]

If that was the case though why didn't we just deal Barrass for Hawks' future picks & pass those on to Tigers for Baker

Might be waiting for Bolton trade to be done.
We can still essentially do what you suggest, theres no rush on it

 

[stallon]

Say we do somehow secure two F1s from Hawthorn tomorrow, giving us three 2025 first round picks. Could we then head straight over to the Sydney mob and give them two of our 2025 F1s plus our 2025 F2 for Warner tomorrow?

I think id rather get a couple more first round picks in before selling everything for Warner

 

[larrikin]

My last post in this thread was at 8.24 this morning - post #13,761

As I type this we’re at #15,196 and likely another 10+ posts before I finish this one

That’s 1,435 in a little over 12 hours - roughly 2 posts a minute. It’s been unrelenting

I’ve read every one of those posts and in between work and other things it’s taken me until now to catch up. For most of the day I’ve been 15-20 pages behind. Step away from the thread for half an hour and I’m 5 pages further behind

So by the time I read an oppo supporters post it’s buried 15 pages back from the most recent post and so far back in the dust trail it’s irrelevant. Besides none of the posts have been as damning on our club as what our own supporters have posted

Maybe I’ve missed one or two posts that should’ve been actioned but tbh after reading 1,000+ posts mostly dumping on the club, often justified, I’ve tended to glaze over some of them. It’s been downright depressing

Forgive me then for not ****ing off a few slightly annoying hawks fans. Especially when not a single post has been reported to highlight anything problematic

I was online pretty much all day. Not 1 reported post.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

I don’t think there is any”plan” it’s just words to keep the wolves at bay.

The best plan I’ve heard is the one about trading our future first to Richmond but I don’t think our list team would be thinking about it because they’ve made a commitment to Warner.

The "Plan" is pretty obvious.

It is to stabilise the floor under our performances in the present (i.e. fewer 100 point losses next year) by any means possible including actions that will significantly lower our ceiling in the medium to long term future such as trading out valuable draft capital (and in this case overpaying) for non - long term players.

The reason they won't spell out in plain language what the Plan is is not because it is original and ingenious and letting people know what it is will ruin it. It is because the supporters won't like it.

 

[larrikin]

Makes me suspicious that Baker approached WC early in the piece, and that triggered the dismissal of Simmo and the appointment of Mini. It all seems too snug a fit.

You can't be ****en serious.

FFS grow a brain.