List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
• AFL retirements and delistings
• Provisional 2025 Draft order

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Trade period
In: 12, F1, F2, F3, 73, Baker, Owies, Graham*
Out: 3, 63, F4, Barrass, Darling

*Free agent

Done deals

• Jai Culley, Alex Witherden
  23

  Alex Witherden

  Age

  26

  Ht

  188cm

  Wt

  85kg

  Pos.

  Def

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  20.7

  5star

  K

  15.2

  5star

  HB

  5.5

  4star

  M

  6.2

  5star

  T

  1.8

  4star

  MG

  386.5

  5star

  D

  13.0

  3star

  K

  10.0

  4star

  HB

  3.0

  2star

  M

  7.0

  5star

  T

  0.0

  1star

  MG

  201.0

  3star

  D

  24.0

  5star

  K

  15.4

  5star

  HB

  8.6

  5star

  M

  5.8

  5star

  T

  2.2

  4star

  MG

  380.2

  5star

  and Coby Burgiel delisted
  • Burgiel to be considered as a train on player

• Tom Barrass traded to Hawthorn
  • In: F1, F2, F3 (HAW)
  • Out: Barrass, F4

• Liam Baker and Matt Owies join West Coast in Pick 3 trade
  • In: Baker, Owies, 12, 73
  • Out: 3, 63, 68

• Jack Darling traded to North Melbourne for Pick 67

• Jack Graham joins West Coast as UFA

• Jake Waterman re-signs with West Coast until at least 2029

• Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones
  31

  Jamaine Jones

  Age

  26

  Ht

  180cm

  Wt

  80kg

  Pos.

  D/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  9.0

  2star

  K

  4.8

  2star

  HB

  4.2

  3star

  M

  2.1

  2star

  T

  3.8

  5star

  MG

  159.6

  3star

  D

  10.5

  3star

  K

  6.5

  3star

  HB

  4.0

  3star

  M

  2.5

  3star

  T

  4.0

  5star

  MG

  196.5

  3star

  D

  9.0

  3star

  K

  4.2

  2star

  HB

  4.8

  4star

  M

  2.4

  3star

  T

  4.2

  5star

  MG

  166.0

  3star

  and Jordyn Baker delisted

• Archer Reid (2027), Loch Rawlinson (2025), and Coen Livingstone (2025) sign extensions

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Trading back will be both F1st rounders for something and something we should avoid at all costs. Just compounding our mistake

 

[Boohemian]

That is 100% correct which is why WCE can't delist him. It's all about legal liability. If WCE delist him then it comes back on the club. If the AFL says he can't continue then the legal liability lays on them. It's a ****ed situation.

At what point does personal responsibility come into play?

He had three concussions in a year alone. If it were me, I'd be hanging up the boots.

 

[KERRPOW]

That is 100% correct which is why WCE can't delist him. It's all about legal liability. If WCE delist him then it comes back on the club. If the AFL says he can't continue then the legal liability lays on them. It's a ****ed situation.

Its likely Ledwards would have been in the frame to be delisted regardless of his concussion issues as he is out of contract.

I assume there has to be a decision made by the AFL medico's before final list lodgements before the draft, otherwise we have this dude whos out of contract but still somehow on the list.

 

[WCE_Phill]

Freo just got Sharp? How is he a FA?

Anyhow, if we were to trade back in. I would be keen of using F1 as we'll lose it for Warner anyway

Tiger would be good if they did F1 for 10 and 11 but unlikely. Straight swap for Hawks F1 for 11. Dont love it tho

Saints are my favourite option

WCE Lose: F1 and F2
WCE gain: Saints F1 and 8

2024 picks of 8, 12, 26

2025
2 x F1 (Saints and Hawks)
1 x F2 (Hawks)
2 x F3 (WC Hawks)

 

[KERRPOW]

At what point does personal responsibility come into play?

He had three concussions in a year alone. If it were me, I'd be hanging up the boots.

its a bit like the paddy McCartin situation, where the dude got concussed by a stiff breeze.

 

[beagles]

What about trading pick 12 for a F1st and 2nd this year?

 

[The Made Guy]

Can someone unlock this

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl-draft-2024-every-clubs-picks-and-the-young-stars-they-could-land-in-november%2Fnews-story%2Ff0e39a7d1c1249d02db1b4ae351ed705&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=HIGH-Segment-1-SCORE

AFL Draft 2024: Every club’s picks and the young stars they could land in November​

With the trade period over, all eyes turn to November’s draft. Experts CHRIS CAVANAGH and DAN BATTEN run through the options for every clubs with the picks they have.

Article here:

https://archive.md/fmYIQ

 

[wirra44]

Its likely Ledwards would have been in the frame to be delisted regardless of his concussion issues as he is out of contract.

I assume there has to be a decision made by the AFL medico's before final list lodgements before the draft, otherwise we have this dude whos out of contract but still somehow on the list.

Pretty sure same thing happened with Venables, incident happened in 2019 but only ended up retiring at the end of 2021. Club will give him time I feel.

 

[Mattman93]

That is 100% correct which is why WCE can't delist him. It's all about legal liability. If WCE delist him then it comes back on the club. If the AFL says he can't continue then the legal liability lays on them. It's a ****ed situation.

Can we get your thoughts on the below one when you've got time Phil?

WCE_phil regarding the comment about how we were always going to split pick 3 because of pervasive flight risk concerns.

Four of our top five rated players gave off red flags. Say we take that as an absolute deal breaker and put a line through those guys, and make the assumption that the one exception is gone by pick 3. Then we're selecting from outside the bracket of premium players, while holding a premium pick. So selling it is the rational option.

At the same time, it's also clear that there's a top tier of 4-5 players in this draft before it really evens out. So not being able to select from that premium group is a big deal. This, of course, is true in general. Compared to a top 5 draft pick, you're 50% less likely to land an AA calibre player with a pick from 6-10, and 75% less likely with a teens pick. For a 200 game player, moving from top 5 to 6-10 makes it 50% less likely. (Consider also this post recently comparing the prospects available at respective picks in past drafts.)

Access to those first few picks in any draft is invaluable. Turning 3 into 12 is incurring a big harm.

And this wasn't the extreme case of kids literally saying they don't want to move, right? It's us making an educated judgement. ie, We're willing to bite this bullet even when the prospects in question don't even force our hand by explicitly saying they won't come to WA, but when we're just worried they've given off enough vibes.

Unless we're literally coerced by kids expressly saying they won't come to WA (ala Sheezel/Wardlaw), shouldn't the significantly higher odds of landing an elite player with that pick trump our inferred worries about homesickness, unless we have a really high degree of credence in the belief that the player won't play in WA?

And granting even that there was good reason to be concerned about each individual. What's the clubs broader philosophy about what should be done here? Hell, if I was an 18 year old Victorian kid guaranteed to be drafted regardless, I'd avowedly prefer to stay home than move state too. But every time we give deference to that feeling, we're in the process of creating a culture where fear of moving interstate isn't a normal thing one will inevitable have to get over, but where kids develop knowing that they can express that feeling and have us actually avoid drafting them. So they and everyone else are more likely to legitimise the preference and express it more actively. It then seems more worrying to us and we avoid such players even more. This problem is only going to get worse. So it seems to me that there's also rational decision-theoretic reasons to take a stand and not easily capitulate to a draftee giving off those signals.

With those two considerations in mind, it should take a lot to be convinced that such a downgrade is worth it. But it seems like the club is inclined the opposite way. It seems to me as though the club simply doesn't value high picks enough, or at least, has a standing (implicit or explicit) strategy of favouring multiple picks over one higher one, given our recent history of downgrading on multiple occasions. We're then overly prone to rationalising such actions with reasoning like 'well we could get the player(s) we rated at the later pick anyway', when the chances of that judgement being a good one often turn out poor.

Wondering if you have a view on any of that.

Bit long-winded of me, but given the collective feelings about recent events it's something worth addressing further I think.

 

[Mattman93]

I want a clean hands/ ground ball player and none of Tauru, TT or Allen fit the bill.

This. I'm going to keep emphasising the clean hands/ground ball priority ad nauseum.

It's why unless there's a big slider I'm beginning to favour taking a punt on Hannaford.

 

[braddalzielleoursaviour]

Lindsay gives me Shuey vibes. Quick of mind, quick by foot (not as quick as boots however), likes to take it on, tough lad and produced a great season on the back of a limited preseason, managing to find the pill at ease. If he gets a good run at it I can see him being the steal of the draft.

 

[Keys]

Where I think TT is elite is his ball movement by hand and his decision making is much better than Allen’s.
TT is also IMO better at breaking the lines and run and carry than Allen
But you are correct that there is not a lot of difference between the quality of Allen and TT’s foot skills.

Allen would be a safe pick, whilst not being a spectacular pick.

My point of intrigue in this draft is going to be just how we positionally use - or who - we spend our second pick on.

I really want us to keep both our F1’s but I am open to trading our F2’s ( one or both ), if it can pick us up another good pick in this years draft.

By way of options us going into draft night holding 2 x F1, F2 & F3 gives us a very handy and versatile war chest to use, IF there is a slider that we rate highly at any juncture in the draft.

That said if we hold all our future draft capital and take it to the 2025 draft I am fine with that too.

I’m as close to 100% certain as I can be that we’ll trade back into this draft at some point to take an extra selection. At a guess I think it’ll be in the 30-50 range

Six spots to fill :
1x DFA
3x draft picks (12,26, somewhere between 30-50)
1x late pick (73) + 1x RD(pick 3) - one of these will be Malakai Champion

Luke Edwards will be delisted with a view to moving him to the rookie list pending what I expect will be a medical retirement. That spot to be filled with a SSP selection likely to be Coby Burgiel

 

[King Huskii]

The Bo Allan foregone conclusion is baffling. I think it will be a monumental **** up. Another type that looks the goods, really hasn't shown anything emaculate to date. Tested well, an athlete obviously, but on the park hasn't shown anything to warrant to justification. His highlight package is filled with him taking intercept marks from scrubbed kicks and a couple of fluffy, floaty balls that will get chewed up at AFL level. If anything, he looks like a defender. Is that what we need to be targeting for this draft?



We've gone the athletic type too many times in previous drafts and lead to being fizzers (Brander and Chesser). Rather go for a "footballer"

Did you watch him actually play for Peel?

 

[Broken_Chairs]

That is 100% correct which is why WCE can't delist him. It's all about legal liability. If WCE delist him then it comes back on the club. If the AFL says he can't continue then the legal liability lays on them. It's a ****ed situation.

Not sure what industrial relations/workers' comp jurisdiction is around the AFL - But would prob be some unfair dismissal risk there too.

Losing his job while is capacity to perform his role is still being assessed - would be cleaner to pause the list mgmt decision until that's resolved.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

I have this feeling we’ll slide our pick 12 for a later first/early second and an F2 when the prospect/s we want are gone or there are no sliders and then be stacked going into next year.

 

[eaglevision]

Giving Essendon pick 26 and Hawks F2 after a Kako bid in return for 28 and 31 before a Kako bid is how we can get an extra pick in a good range.

 

[Obeanie1]

So top 4 teams are going to be able to buy top 5 picks more often. Fu(k me

They won't because the players cost more points and also more picks.

A team with pick 18 will basically wipe out its entire draft hand matching a bid on pick 1.

It should be more than that.

Who wouldn't trade pick 18, 36 and 54 for pick 1?

 

[Obeanie1]

At what point does personal responsibility come into play?

He had three concussions in a year alone. If it were me, I'd be hanging up the boots.

You would not resign or retire though.

You wait until your employer medically retires you and incurs an obligation to pay compensation.

That's the issue.

 

[Monocle]

I’m as close to 100% certain as I can be that we’ll trade back into this draft at some point to take an extra selection. At a guess I think it’ll be in the 30-50 range

Six spots to fill :
1x DFA
3x draft picks (12,26, somewhere between 30-50)
1x late pick (73) + 1x RD(pick 3) - one of these will be Malakai Champion

Luke Edwards will be delisted with a view to moving him to the rookie list pending what I expect will be a medical retirement. That spot to be filled with a SSP selection likely to be Coby Burgiel

Keys I would be absolutely thrilled with another pick in this years draft in that range ( 30-50).
That would be an astute piece of drafting IMO.

There are a couple of kids in particular that I feel will, be late pick ups that represent great value.
In the 30 range is Oliver Harrison Sandringham and in the 50 rang is Phoenix Hargreaves South Adelaide.

Both or either of these players I would be happy to have on our list.

 

[Obeanie1]

Not sure what industrial relations/workers' comp jurisdiction is around the AFL - But would prob be some unfair dismissal risk there too.

Losing his job while is capacity to perform his role is still being assessed - would be cleaner to pause the list mgmt decision until that's resolved.

He is out of contract though.

We have no contractual obligation to extend.

 

[uncleoatmeal]

If we front end a Warner offer so much that Sydney can’t match due to their salary cap, would that mean we don’t have to give up any draft picks?

 

[Obeanie1]

Keys I would be absolutely thrilled with another pick in this years draft in that range ( 30-50).
That would be an astute piece of drafting IMO.

There are a couple of kids in particular that I feel will, be late pick ups that represent great value.
In the 30 range is Oliver Harrison Sandringham and in the 50 rang is Phoenix Hargreaves South Adelaide.

Both or either of these players I would be happy to have on our list.

A live trade option on draft night?

Make sure a Champion bid doesn't scuttle those plans.

 

[Obeanie1]

If we front end a Warner offer so much that Sydney can’t match due to their salary cap, would that mean we don’t have to give up any draft picks?

Other than the picks we may have already committed.

It is what we do.

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

WCE have strong interest in Charlie Nichols as a key backman this draft
Massey loves this kid a heap so if we trade that future second for picks this draft
Expect it to be used on him

 

[WCErevival]

WCE have strong interest in Charlie Nichols as a key backman this draft
Massey loves this kid a heap so if we trade that future second for picks this draft
Expect it to be used on him

Isn't he a forward?