List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion - 2022 Off Season Edition

[Keys]

Contract status of all players now fully updated

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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[Eastcoasteagle]

Did you get any question time and if so did anyone get a chance to tell him the Bowes trade was an absolute piss take by the AFL?

Haha, we did but that wasn't mentioned.

He literally took off straight after the grand final to USA to study for 2 weeks and that was his first gig back. So not sure how much involvement he did have with all that.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Interesting info thanks ECE.

There is / was, IMO, a harsh and stark, difference to our respective squads, Geelong V West Coast ...... hear me out.

The Cats older senior players, still seemed super keen to win another one ...... and another one .... the older brigade lead the focus and set the game day standards.

Whereas our senior guys after 2018 seemed to get complacent, satisfied and very content with themselves.
They collectively didn't put in as hard enough or as long enough on game day, now this piss poor attitude was ably supported by the Credits in The Bank attitude from Simpson and the match committee.

They ( being the Club, The Players, The Coaches ) can sugar coat it as much as they like, but the level of professionalism, accountability and application dropped off after the Premiership Players partied hard and sustained the festivities long after, the medals where Presented.

The: * Friends * Family * Flags. mantra, was soon replaced with: *Pats on the back. *Past Glories *Prams and Pushers. mantra.

What differentiates the 1992/ 1994 Premiership playing squads, was the well publicised attitude of the Premiership players who played in 1992, was their determination to get back to another GF so that their mates.... the likes of: Joffa Hart, David Hynes who has missed out getting a Premiership medal in 1992, got the opportunity to do so and it was the onus of all the other players to work together to ensure that was achieved
It's been mentioned regularly that the close player bond of season 1992, drove the 1994 Premiership.

Conversely, IMO, it's a real slight on the character of the 2018 Premiership Team, that they didn't do the work, the extra hard yards in the next few years to ensure that the likes of Sheppard, Gaff an Nic Nat enjoyed the taste of success that they had experienced.

The very fact that seasons 2019, 2020, 2021 and now 2022 have seen gross under achievement and a disjoint effort across the Club, shows that the burning desire, thats needed, to work hard enough for sustained success, simply has not been on show at The Club.

I do see it in the Cats senior players , however sadly, I don't see that same desire in the Eagles senior players.

The beat of the band is always set by the drummer and our drummer, has been out of beat for four seasons now.

As much as both the Scott Brothers piss me off, there is an arrogant defiant edge to them, that has to be respected.
Any who watched them play in their glory days at Brisbane in the three peat, would recognise the same tough as nails, hard arse, ruthlessness, combative style that they played with, being stamped on the players they coach.

Softness in a playing group is very difficult trait to remove, particularly if the leaders who should be eradicating it, are soft themselves.

Yes, and totally agree. Hunger was lost for our group and 2019 to now has been pretty disappointing.

I just think if we can nail this year and next years drafts with what we got last year, we start to head North again up the ladder.

Scott made the point that Collingwood, nobody should've been that surprised that they rose again this year they had the experience in the list they just need the injection of some youth, new thinking and energy.

I do believe we're still a few years off the 8, but it doesn't have to be a North scenario where they cut back too hard on experience and suffered long term for it.

 

[Westcoast88]

How old is he? Do you think he has the build to be a ruckman? Have you seen some of his marking highlights? He moves very well in congestion. His tackling has improved.Writing off somebody of his size and age so easily makes me doubt your thinking!

Im not writing him off, I never said de-list him, I just dont believe he will be a "weapon" as you put it in our forward line. I dont think he has that kind of potential. I think you are exaggerating Bailey Williams talent, wetting yourself over a fringe young player who wouldnt get a game in a lot of other teams. I think he is worth preserving with in the ruck if there is no one better, but nothing screams forward to me. Hopefully he can be serviceable as a second ruck, at best a number 1 ruck one day, maybe that is a stretch though for him but we will see.

 

[Schtinker]

looking at Twomeys PhantomForm Guide we'll have options aplenty

Pick 8 : Ginbey/Phillipou/Hollands/McKenzie
Pick 12: Jefferson/Hewett/Busslinger
Pick 20 : Hotton/Kostanty/George
Pick 26 : Hustwaite/Burgeil/Barnett

 

[paran]

Rumour on the Suns board we might be interested in trading up to their pick 5 for our 8 and a future 2nd. Would guarantee us one of Ginbey or Clark.

Shouldn't they be throwing an overpriced player in as well in return?

 

[eaglesnutcase]

I

Im not writing him off, I never said de-list him, I just dont believe he will be a "weapon" as you put it in our forward line. I dont think he has that kind of potential. I think you are exaggerating Bailey Williams talent, wetting yourself over a fringe young player who wouldnt get a game in a lot of other teams. I think he is worth preserving with in the ruck if there is no one better, but nothing screams forward to me. Hopefully he can be serviceable as a second ruck, at best a number 1 ruck one day, maybe that is a stretch though for him but we will see.

I’m not “wetting” myself over him. I’m looking at a forward line with an ageing JD and an undersized OA ; star that he will be. He’s a suicidal mark and playing on 200 back men will severely shorten his footy career.We need a big body down there, and preferably somebody with a modicum of talent.Gov ? Short term. Jameson looked good and can No2 to NN for a couple of years. Logic says BW is first cab off the rank.He has shown enough glimpses to warrant going on.He’s only 22.If you write him off already I think your a very harsh taskmaster..

 

[Westcoast88]

I

I’m not “wetting” myself over him. I’m looking at a forward line with an ageing JD and an undersized OA ; star that he will be. He’s a suicidal mark and playing on 200 back men will severely shorten his footy career.We need a big body down there, and preferably somebody with a modicum of talent.Gov ? Short term. Jameson looked good and can No2 to NN for a couple of years. Logic says BW is first cab off the rank.He has shown enough glimpses to warrant going on.He’s only 22.If you write him off already I think your a very harsh taskmaster..

Very few Rucks translate into forwards. He is a poor kick at goal and thats a big thing. He does tackle well as you say and he can accumulate whilst on ball. He can mark too. But leading patterns, forward nous, decision making I dont see it. I am not writing him off in the ruck but as a forward yes i am writing him off, completely. If that makes me harsh in your eyes so be it. His kicking for goal, decision making, forward nous needs vast improvement before he can play forward more than occasionally and I think its a bridge too far but i hope you prove me wrong.

 

[eaglesnutcase]

Very few Rucks translate into forwards. He is a poor kick at goal and thats a big thing. He does tackle well as you say and he can accumulate whilst on ball. He can mark too. But leading patterns, forward nous, decision making I dont see it. I am not writing him off in the ruck but as a forward yes i am writing him off, completely. If that makes me harsh in your eyes so be it. His kicking for goal, decision making, forward nous needs vast improvement before he can play forward more than occasionally and I think its a bridge too far but i hope you prove me wrong.

I don’t think he’s a ruckman trying to translate into a forward; I think he’s a forward the club has tried to translate into a ruck. As you say time will tell.The club may not even use him there so all our talk may be for nothing

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Can't remember the last time I wanted to throttle a player the way I want to throttle Big Boy Bailey the Dopey Campaigner.

Reckon if he kicked that sitter against Adelaide in JK's last game we would have gone on to win. Instead we got a glimpse of the future forward line.

 

[eagles rule]

looking at Twomeys PhantomForm Guide we'll have options aplenty

Pick 8 : Ginbey/Phillipou/Hollands/McKenzie
Pick 12: Jefferson/Hewett/Busslinger
Pick 20 : Hotton/Kostanty/George
Pick 26 : Hustwaite/Burgeil/Barnett

We have a decent draft hand for once To kill 2 birds with 1 stone ..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[WCE_phil]

Exactly why Ive been keen on Hotton and why Darcy Jones would also help in that area. We likely wont pick both. A Cripps replacement.

To me for later draft picks now there are 2 decent cripps replacements. Kobe Ryan and Jed Hagan. Both have that real mongrel, intent and can also hit the scoreboard.

There are a few midfielders who have done well hitting the scoreboard this year and I would prefer a few of those in the part pick 20 range. There's no real forward pocket of straight HFF prospects outside of Sheezel worth a top 20 pick this year.

 

[archiemoses]

Phil is persona non grata at the Eagles, Bond is involved with the club.

Phil is Bond007s burner

 

[Nuffington Post]

Very few Rucks translate into forwards. He is a poor kick at goal and thats a big thing. He does tackle well as you say and he can accumulate whilst on ball. He can mark too. But leading patterns, forward nous, decision making I dont see it. I am not writing him off in the ruck but as a forward yes i am writing him off, completely. If that makes me harsh in your eyes so be it. His kicking for goal, decision making, forward nous needs vast improvement before he can play forward more than occasionally and I think its a bridge too far but i hope you prove me wrong.

100% Agree. To keep his spot in the team long term he needs to develop as a pure ruck and play 75% on ball, resting forward. He wasn’t great this year (forward or ruck) except for the last game against Geelong. I’m prepared to give him one more year given his athleticism and the fact rucks take time to develop, but geez patience is wearing thin.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[MrWoollie]

For work, we had Chris Scott come and talk to us all - guest/motivational speaker.

Was interesting, as he talked all about the age and perception of the Geelong team and media sentiment around 'too old to win the premiership' which crept into their board. Pressure and conversation from some of the board was around we need to rebuild, Chris and his team were no we don't. So he presented back to them that no team or very rarely has a team bottomed out and gone to the draft to build success again - was a bit hazy here as I'm sure he meant fully relied on the draft to rebuild and challenge again.

Hawthorn - drafted Mitchell, Buddy, Roughy, Hodge, Lewis that built the core and then traded in Gunston, Gibson, Lake, Hale to complete the side. Tigers drafted most of theirs but added Prestia, Lynch.

He twisted 'too old/too slow' to 'most experienced' and showed a graph of where all the clubs sat and their experience level, which clearly showed they were the most. They also spoke about rather than whipping the older players over preseason, what's the point Isaac Smith is already an elite runner he's not going to get any better - they wanted to ensure he maintained that rather than over train him to get a 1% increase. So experienced players, built their own training programs with staff to ensure they could maintain optimal performance. Younger players had individual programs, but that was more about driving improvement.

It was interesting that they believe they can maintain success ongoing, without having to rebuild.

When he showed graphs of average age for 2022 we were one of the highest, got me thinking back to the arguments that followed on here about getting rid of older players vs the keeping experience on field and with training standards. Do we need to rebuild vs replenish the list.

I know our list is different to theirs etc etc, but if we draft well over the course of the next few seasons and then recruit some of the missing pieces there is no reason we can't get back up the ladder in a few seasons.

Well said, and I agree.

But the last paragraph, the summing up one, basically seems to say...

If we draft well, replacing some of our spuds/retirees with with quality draftees, AND we trade well, replacing some of our our spuds/retirees with quality incomers, then we'll improve, possibly significantly.

I'll go along with that. But would argue that that applies to any club at the bottom.

 

[Rowan18]

For work, we had Chris Scott come and talk to us all - guest/motivational speaker.

Was interesting, as he talked all about the age and perception of the Geelong team and media sentiment around 'too old to win the premiership' which crept into their board. Pressure and conversation from some of the board was around we need to rebuild, Chris and his team were no we don't. So he presented back to them that no team or very rarely has a team bottomed out and gone to the draft to build success again - was a bit hazy here as I'm sure he meant fully relied on the draft to rebuild and challenge again.

Hawthorn - drafted Mitchell, Buddy, Roughy, Hodge, Lewis that built the core and then traded in Gunston, Gibson, Lake, Hale to complete the side. Tigers drafted most of theirs but added Prestia, Lynch.

He twisted 'too old/too slow' to 'most experienced' and showed a graph of where all the clubs sat and their experience level, which clearly showed they were the most. They also spoke about rather than whipping the older players over preseason, what's the point Isaac Smith is already an elite runner he's not going to get any better - they wanted to ensure he maintained that rather than over train him to get a 1% increase. So experienced players, built their own training programs with staff to ensure they could maintain optimal performance. Younger players had individual programs, but that was more about driving improvement.

It was interesting that they believe they can maintain success ongoing, without having to rebuild.

When he showed graphs of average age for 2022 we were one of the highest, got me thinking back to the arguments that followed on here about getting rid of older players vs the keeping experience on field and with training standards. Do we need to rebuild vs replenish the list.

I know our list is different to theirs etc etc, but if we draft well over the course of the next few seasons and then recruit some of the missing pieces there is no reason we can't get back up the ladder in a few seasons.

Interesting philosophy. I think Scott is overlooking a few things though:
-Richmond and West Coast clearly built the core of their premiership teams in the draft. They won all 4 flags from 2017-2020. Melbourne also built its core from the draft and won 2021. Geelong were outliers
-Geelong has unique factors which allow them to attract talent outside of the draft and keep oldies on the park (very low travel requirements)

There is a cliff coming for Geelong, but they've prolonged it by topping up their elite talent through FA (Danger, Cameron) and doing an amazing job to keep their others going for a long time (Selwood, Hawkins). When it hits, they will be blasted into oblivion for 10 years, as their young talent is very thin.

 

[dewcefault]

Interesting philosophy. I think Scott is overlooking a few things though:
-Richmond and West Coast clearly built the core of their premiership teams in the draft. They won all 4 flags from 2017-2020. Melbourne also built its core from the draft and one 2021. Geelong were outliers
-Geelong has unique factors which allow them to attract talent outside of the draft and keep oldies on the park (very low travel requirements)

There is a cliff coming for Geelong, but they've prolonged it by topping up their elite talent through FA (Danger, Cameron) and doing an amazing job to keep their others going for a long time (Selwood, Hawkins). When it hits, they will be blasted into oblivion for 10 years, as their young talent is very thin.

Just to add to this though, they've just managed to add 3 first round picks under the age of 25 for effectively free*.
2 of which were in high demand (Bruhn and Henry) and the third being a pretty decent player if he can get back on the park. By effectively not paying any draft capital - in addition to the enormous travel, home ground & FA benefit they currently have - you can easily see them succeeding for another 10 years with maybe a single year or two out of finals in between somewhere

*You wouldn't trade the Cats 2022 and 2023 first rounders for pick 7 so effectively they didn't pay for either player

 

[Dark Sharks]

Jones not in Twomeys latest top 30 power rankings.

Reading that list it really does make me stress less about who will still be on the board. Plenty of options at each pick.

Only one I'm sweating on is Hewett at 13. Hopefully he is there and hopefully we get him. No ****ing about hoping he slides to 20.

 

[Jupes]

why would we trade up to stop gc taking ginbey? would be great we get him back plus their first for a future 3rd in a couple years.

 

[Westcoast88]

For work, we had Chris Scott come and talk to us all - guest/motivational speaker.

Was interesting, as he talked all about the age and perception of the Geelong team and media sentiment around 'too old to win the premiership' which crept into their board. Pressure and conversation from some of the board was around we need to rebuild, Chris and his team were no we don't. So he presented back to them that no team or very rarely has a team bottomed out and gone to the draft to build success again - was a bit hazy here as I'm sure he meant fully relied on the draft to rebuild and challenge again.

Hawthorn - drafted Mitchell, Buddy, Roughy, Hodge, Lewis that built the core and then traded in Gunston, Gibson, Lake, Hale to complete the side. Tigers drafted most of theirs but added Prestia, Lynch.

He twisted 'too old/too slow' to 'most experienced' and showed a graph of where all the clubs sat and their experience level, which clearly showed they were the most. They also spoke about rather than whipping the older players over preseason, what's the point Isaac Smith is already an elite runner he's not going to get any better - they wanted to ensure he maintained that rather than over train him to get a 1% increase. So experienced players, built their own training programs with staff to ensure they could maintain optimal performance. Younger players had individual programs, but that was more about driving improvement.

It was interesting that they believe they can maintain success ongoing, without having to rebuild.

When he showed graphs of average age for 2022 we were one of the highest, got me thinking back to the arguments that followed on here about getting rid of older players vs the keeping experience on field and with training standards. Do we need to rebuild vs replenish the list.

I know our list is different to theirs etc etc, but if we draft well over the course of the next few seasons and then recruit some of the missing pieces there is no reason we can't get back up the ladder in a few seasons.

I find your post having a bet each way. On the one hand keep experience on the other hand go the draft. Isn't that what we are doing anyway ? Isnt that just common sense ? Seems very wishy washy. As for Geelong we are not Geelong, we didn't get a heap of father sons, free agents, pick 7, rip west coast off with him Kelly trade or have the best recruiter in the game in the last 10 years Stephen wells. Also our oldies seem a lot more injury prone then there's.

 

[Westcoast88]

why would we trade up to stop gc taking ginbey? would be great we get him back plus their first for a future 3rd in a couple years.

Apparently we are the dumbies of trades now other clubs think

 

[Wce17]

Can anyone confirm that if a NGA player nominates for the draft but doesn’t receive a national or state combine invitation that you can’t put them straight on the CAT B list if they don’t get taken in the main draft?

This is what I’ve just been told on the draft board. This was in reply to a question about Dewar & Baker. Dewar did get an invite but Baker hasn’t

 

[Keys]

Jones not in Twomeys latest top 30 power rankings.

Reading that list it really does make me stress less about who will still be on the board. Plenty of options at each pick.

Only one I'm sweating on is Hewett at 13. Hopefully he is there and hopefully we get him. No ******* about hoping he slides to 20.

In my uneducated opinion, Hewett at 13 can and should be the cornerstone of our draft strategy.

Firstly, he is a good fit for our most pressing need - a genuine midfielder that can win his own ball who has the added benefit of being dual sided. Very doubtful he gets taken before our first pick and most likely he’s still there at our second

Assuming that we do plan on picking him at 13, we get the luxury of taking best available with pick 9 without being too concerned with needs. So Ginbey, Phillipou, Busslinger, Mackenzie, Clark, perhaps even Tsatas we just draft who we think is best

Come our next two picks we can then draft based on who we take at 9 to balance our selections

So if we get Busslinger, we look for another mid and a small forward or small defender

If we take Mackenzie or Clark then look for someone like Keeler or Barnett and we can take a punt on Allan or Jones

The only scenario where I’d accept if we pass on Hewett at 13, is if we’ve taken Clark or Mackenzie as a genuine mid and we decide to take the chance that Hewett will last to our next pick

I’m really not fussed too much who else we take as there’s good options at all our picks as you say but Hewett at 13 sticks out as being obvious

 

[Schtinker]

In my uneducated opinion, Hewett at 13 can and should be the cornerstone of our draft strategy.

Firstly, he is a good fit for our most pressing need - a genuine midfielder that can win his own ball who has the added benefit of being dual sided. Very doubtful he gets taken before our first pick and most likely he’s still there at our second

Assuming that we do plan on picking him at 13, we get the luxury of taking best available with pick 9 without being too concerned with needs. So Ginbey, Phillipou, Busslinger, Mackenzie, Clark, perhaps even Tsatas we just draft who we think is best

Come our next two picks we can then draft based on who we take at 9 to balance our selections

So if we get Busslinger, we look for another mid and a small forward or small defender

If we take Mackenzie or Clark then look for someone like Keeler or Barnett and we can take a punt on Allan or Jones

The only scenario where I’d accept if we pass on Hewett at 13, is if we’ve taken Clark or Mackenzie as a genuine mid and we decide to take the chance that Hewett will last to our next pick

I’m really not fussed too much who else we take as there’s good options at all our picks as you say but Hewett at 13 sticks out as being obvious

I'd happily take George at our 3rd and Burgiel at our 4th.

 

[Dark Sharks]

An even spread of

1. Buslinger
2. Hewett
3. Hotton/Jones
4. Barnett

Would cover every base bar a KPF. I still think Barnett isn't going to happen at all for us due to Broadbent being around, so can probably replace him with Allan or another mid around the 20's.

Gives us 2 mids, 1 KPD, 1 half forward, then possibly 1 ruck in Broadbent.


Who says no?

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Who says no?

Pie Man