List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion - 2022 Off Season Edition

[Keys]

Contract status of all players now fully updated

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Barring a major change in events, Naughton is going to Fremantle. It would have happened in the last trade period if Geelong didn't take on the Bowes salary dump.

Three-way trade involving Fremantle, Bulldogs and Geelong for Naughton, Darcy, Ratugolea and picks.

Why else would Fremantle be paying almost $1.8M of their cap between two rucks under the age of 25, if they weren't already planning to ship one of them out?

Dockers want Darcy moved before he becomes RFA in 2024; Naughton is apparently keen to come home to WA and Bulldogs are looking to trade before his final year in 2024 to get maximum value. Cats have wanted Darcy since before he was drafted and each of Stanley, Ceglar and Blicavs will be over 32 when this season commences - as soon as they clear some cap space (from retirements likely), they'll be knocking on Fremantle's door for a deal.

So much to unpack here.

Bulldogs: would want much more than Esava for Naughton

Cats: another daylight robbery

Dockers:
If Darcy was guaranteed to leave a straight swap (for them at least) for Naughton is pretty fair trade

But Losing Meek and Darcy in back to back seasons then going in with Jackson as your ruck seems a bit risky when you’re chasing your first flag

 

[Obeanie1]

Interesting theory. I hadn't heard that Darcy wanted to go or that Geelong were in his ear. And it is hard to imagine Freo voluntarily trading him. On the other hand it does explain why they handed over all that draft capital and salary cap for a player in Jackson who doesn't really solve any of their problems for them.

Darcy and Jackson were training together in the off season prioe to being traded. Seem to be mates.

Lots of moving parts to that theory.

Tim English makes more sense as a RFA at 27 at the end of 2024. He can play as the main ruck while Barnett develops as the 2nd ruck / forward. Likely only one of Williams or Jaimeson would stay andwe have Jack Williams as further support.

We start pushing at finals again in 2025 after hitting the 2023 and 24 drafts and also add deepth trading in players but not using our top picks to do it.

As for needing the cash to renew Ginbey, Hewett and Chesser. Nic, McGovern, Gaff, Cripps, Shuey and Hurn will all retire within the next 2-3 years. We will have our first 'war chest' to go shopping with in a big way. Kp forwards and rucks take years to peak so its logical that we buy one to have similar aged support for Oscar.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Non of our young rucks have shown that they will lead us going forward .

Getting English as a RFA would put us in a good position.

English who has been more of a tall midfielder most of his career and been pushed around in the ruck has actually showed he is starting to have more say in the ruck battle .

If we can get an on ball group that doesn't rely on silver service to compete i think English will be suitable going forward as the main ruck .

If one of our other guys can play the forward/ruck role to a decent level then we are set

 

[Truckosaurus]

Interesting theory. I hadn't heard that Darcy wanted to go or that Geelong were in his ear.

"Horizontal stripes are so slimming, Sean. You should see what Hawkins really looks like. Join us."

 

[WCE_phil]

Non of our young rucks have shown that they will lead us going forward .

Getting English as a RFA would put us in a good position.

English who has been more of a tall midfielder most of his career and been pushed around in the ruck has actually showed he is starting to have more say in the ruck battle .

If we can get an on ball group that doesn't rely on silver service to compete i think English will be suitable going forward as the main ruck .

If one of our other guys can play the forward/ruck role to a decent level then we are set

Personally in regards to ruck work the only thing i've seen english show is getting beaten up by big, strong rucks and destroyed in the tap work. Around the ground and as an extra mid he is useful and he is better than teams second ruck options. Maybe in a couple of years someone can put a mean streak in him where he wants and accepts the hard body contact.

 

[FKASC]

Anyone can choose to come across as POTY for 5 minutes, it doesn't mean they are.

Then there are others like myself who just try and post boardisms even if it means they come across as a specialist twit.

 

[jesterwester]

Naughton would be an excellent get for Freo, but I think it would end up like the Kelly situation for us.

Will cost a lot to get him, both in capital and $$$ to correct the error they made in 2017 by not selecting him.

They might have cap space now - but they will have to manage the emerging players on the list like Brayshaw, Young, Serong, Clark, Chapman, Erasmus, Johnson etc as they start to command Bigger dollars in their next few contracts. Getting Jackson cost them a bit of the depth they had, getting naughton will cost them further.

 

[DanWCE]

Naughton would be an excellent get for Freo, but I think it would end up like the Kelly situation for us.

Will cost a lot to get him, both in capital and $$$ to correct the error they made in 2017 by not selecting him.

They might have cap space now - but they will have to manage the emerging players on the list like Brayshaw, Young, Serong, Clark, Chapman, Erasmus, Johnson etc as they start to command Bigger dollars in their next few contracts. Getting Jackson cost them a bit of the depth they had, getting naughton will cost them further.

Yeah but that's what you do when you're in the window. You can't die wondering. Their forward line is uncompetitive for the backline and midfield they have. They need to buy 50+ goals from somewhere.

Walters, Fyfe and co will retire so that frees up coin. Lobb was on stupid money so most of that is rolled into Jackson.

It might not work out for them but you wouldn't want to be sitting there in 5 years thinking what if?

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Anyone can choose to come across as POTY for 5 minutes, it doesn't mean they are.

Then there are others like myself who just try and post boardisms even if it means they come across as a specialist twit.

But you do speak truth to power, which is what many love about you.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Would we draft rucks in consecutive years? Doubtful.

Considering i'd lose no sleep at all if Bailey Williams was let go, and would barely lose any if Cal Jamieson was let go, i think we need to pick up at least one, if not two rucks at year end with Nic Nat nearly done.

Ideally another through the draft and a stop gap through trade/free agency.

 

[jesterwester]

Yeah but that's what you do when you're in the window. You can't die wondering. Their forward line is uncompetitive for the backline and midfield they have. They need to buy 50+ goals from somewhere.

Walters, Fyfe and co will retire so that frees up coin. Lobb was on stupid money so most of that is rolled into Jackson.

It might not work out for them but you wouldn't want to be sitting there in 5 years thinking what if?

Oh, for sure- you can’t afford to die wondering. Which is why us taking Kelly for mine was the right call, even if in hindsight we should have taken Allen at 13 and Kelly at 21 in his draft year and saved us the trouble later.

I’ve had the opinion for a while; squads get you to finals, A graders wins you them. So much has to go right and injuries play such a big part but from a list managing perspective you need balance.

 

[DanWCE]

Oh, for sure- you can’t afford to die wondering. Which is why us taking Kelly for mine was the right call, even if in hindsight we should have taken Allen at 13 and Kelly at 21 in his draft year and saved us the trouble later.

I’ve had the opinion for a while; squads get you to finals, A graders wins you them. So much has to go right and injuries play such a big part but from a list managing perspective you need balance.

Agreed on TK, we had to roll the dice. Freo are in a different position where their window is opening, not closing, so if they can lure in some talent before their aging stars retire they wouldn't struggle to justify that decision.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

‘Couldn’t believe it when I read that’: Cornes slams McGoverns trade report

‘Gives them a bad name’: Great slams ‘stunning lack of loyalty’ after McGoverns trade talk

www.foxsports.com.au

Kane Cornes having a crack at the McGovern brothers and their management group for the complete lack of loyalty in the comments made, especially given how highly paid and highly underwhelming the performances of both have been during their current contracts.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Yeah but that's what you do when you're in the window. You can't die wondering. Their forward line is uncompetitive for the backline and midfield they have. They need to buy 50+ goals from somewhere.

Walters, Fyfe and co will retire so that frees up coin. Lobb was on stupid money so most of that is rolled into Jackson.

It might not work out for them but you wouldn't want to be sitting there in 5 years thinking what if?

I agree that they have to be looking to buy a forward from somewhere. From where they are now they have to be prepared to have a crack at getting over the line for a flag. If you wait for all the stars to align for you and things to be easy or without potential long term cost then you will miss your boat.

 

[THE A5]

Kane ain’t wrong here

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Considering i'd lose no sleep at all if Bailey Williams was let go, and would barely lose any if Cal Jamieson was let go, i think we need to pick up at least one, if not two rucks at year end with Nic Nat nearly done.

Ideally another through the draft and a stop gap through trade/free agency.

My thinking behind not drafting rucks in consecutive years is that you need to consider development. And with rucks its a bit different than other positions on the ground.

There is really only 1 ruck spot in the starting team, with a 2nd ruck picked as appropriate. So two young rucks will be stepping on each others toes fighting for that 2nd/developing ruck spot. It will only hinder their development.

But the development aside, we have 3 young rucks on our list fighting for 1 spot and a lot of holes in other positions. I think we have enough list problems to solve that we don't need another ruck from this years draft.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

My thinking behind not drafting rucks in consecutive years is that you need to consider development. And with rucks its a bit different than other positions on the ground.

There is really only 1 ruck spot in the starting team, with a 2nd ruck picked as appropriate. So two young rucks will be stepping on each others toes fighting for that 2nd/developing ruck spot. It will only hinder their development.

But the development aside, we have 3 young rucks on our list fighting for 1 spot and a lot of holes in other positions. I think we have enough list problems to solve that we don't need another ruck from this years draft.

I'm firmly of the view that one of those three is clearly not, and will not be, AFL level in Bailey Williams. Cal Jamieson is borderline. So they should not be on our list.

I'm not saying burn a pick unnecessarily, but we can certainly use another young ruck on our list. It won't cause development issues if both they and Barnett are good enough.

 

[Obeanie1]

Kane ain’t wrong here

Nah. Kane doing what Kane does best. Chase clicks.

Feel the comment has been taken out of context. The McGovern's may simply be inferring they would love to play in the same team post retirement

 

[bUCKET__]

Pardon the intrusion. But I reckon we keep spending our high picks on versatile midfielders, and then it won't matter so much that our ruck situation is a pile of horse shit. Like most other teams in the league try to do, really.

 

[shooshka]

My thinking behind not drafting rucks in consecutive years is that you need to consider development. And with rucks its a bit different than other positions on the ground.

There is really only 1 ruck spot in the starting team, with a 2nd ruck picked as appropriate. So two young rucks will be stepping on each others toes fighting for that 2nd/developing ruck spot. It will only hinder their development.

But the development aside, we have 3 young rucks on our list fighting for 1 spot and a lot of holes in other positions. I think we have enough list problems to solve that we don't need another ruck from this years draft.

There is also a reasonable return on investment argument around rucks.

It would be interesting to know the highest trade price paid for a ruckman, I'd guess mid-ish first rounder. Obviously mids and forwards have demanded higher prices (probably some key backs too, but that is probably more FA compensation which is skewed). Guys like Grundy were traded for lower picks as their salary was inflated. That is always a possibility on the open market also.

So if we can draft for all other positions (in the top 40 or so picks, if there is a ruckman after that we really want then have a swing at the stumps - it is a lottery after the second round in most cases) first, then even if we do need to give up a mid-first round pick for a ready-to-go ruckman, or something less for a project - then so be it. (provided that is the only main position of need).

 

[JackOutback]

There is also a reasonable return on investment argument around rucks.

It would be interesting to know the highest trade price paid for a ruckman, I'd guess mid-ish first rounder. Obviously mids and forwards have demanded higher prices (probably some key backs too, but that is probably more FA compensation which is skewed). Guys like Grundy were traded for lower picks as their salary was inflated. That is always a possibility on the open market also.

So if we can draft for all other positions (in the top 40 or so picks, if there is a ruckman after that we really want then have a swing at the stumps - it is a lottery after the second round in most cases) first, then even if we do need to give up a mid-first round pick for a ready-to-go ruckman, or something less for a project - then so be it. (provided that is the only main position of need).

Luke Jackson was only a couple of months ago and went for two first rounders.

 

[ziad]

Luke Jackson was only a couple of months ago and went for two first rounders.

Perhaps value for Freo but not for us given our list position. Nice to have though.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Isiah Winder: West Coast player agrees to court diversion after assault

‘Stupid f***’: Young Eagles player too drunk to recall tourist assault

www.foxsports.com.au

Article detailing the Winder incident in Geelong and reporting that he has essentially been given a smack on the wrist by the court.

Apparently he openned the car door of a rented car driven by an Asian tourist and head butted the bloke twice and verbally abused him. What a ****. Obviously a violent person by nature. Should be well and truly on his last chance after showing character flaws as big as that.

 

[Keys]

Isiah Winder: West Coast player agrees to court diversion after assault

‘Stupid f***’: Young Eagles player too drunk to recall tourist assault

www.foxsports.com.au

Article detailing the Winder incident in Geelong and reporting that he has essentially been given a smack on the wrist by the court.

Apparently he openned the car door of a rented car driven by an Asian tourist and head butted the bloke twice and verbally abused him. What a ****. Obviously a violent person by nature. Should be well and truly on his last chance after showing character flaws as big as that.

Dumb act by Winder no doubt

However, I’ve heard a number of people not tied to WCE (most notably Mark Duffield) describe Winder’s actions as being out of character so I wouldn’t say he’s obviously a violent person by nature

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Dumb act by Winder no doubt

However, I’ve heard a number of people not tied to WCE (most notably Mark Duffield) describe Winder’s actions as being out of character so I wouldn’t say he’s obviously a violent person by nature

How well do you think Mark Duffield knows Winder? I doubt they have any personal relationship at all or that Duffield has spoken to him about much other than footy. I doubt Winder goes to the Duffield house regularly for a Sunday roast with his best mate Mark. More likely Duffield is just repeating the official line from inside West Coast and pretending it is a first hand opinion.

If yourself or your wife or your kids were driving their car and had the door randomly openned by some random stranger who head butted them twice for no reason would you still say the person who did it was not a violent person? Would you like your daughter dating somebody who had been convicted of that? I doubt it.