List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2021 offseason edition

[Keys]

So the 2021 season is officially done and dusted.

It’s time now to fully turn our attention to the off season and what we can do through the trade period/draft to chase down Melbourne in 2022.

List and personnel changes have already been made and I’ll update this OP as and when any further changes are made.

As it stands these are our official list changes :

Out -
• Venables (R) - retired
• Vardy - retired
• Hutchings (R) - delisted
• Ah Chee (R) - delisted
• Ainsworth - delisted
• Johnson - delisted
• Collins (R) - delisted
• Brander - cluster****
• Cameron - retired/delisted not that it was officially acknowledged by the club
• Sheppard - retired

Inactive listed -
• Cole
• Chesser

In -
• Petrevski-Seton - traded for pick 52
• Chesser - Pick 14
• Hough - Pick 31
• Bazzo - Pick 37
• Williams (Jack) - Pick 57
• Clark - Pick 62
• Dixon - SSP
• Joyce - SSP
• Strnadica - SSP
• Naish - SSP

Players on main list - 37 (Including 2 inactive)
Players on rookie list - 7

Future trade picks :
In - Port Adelaide future 2nd
Out - Future 4th

Assistant Coaches :
• Out - Graham, Hickmott
• In - Schofield (Strategy and Stoppage), Knights (Midfield), Wiley (WAFL coach), Brennan (development)

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Jumpoff Joey]

Sorry, if i am returning to a topic a few pages ago.

There was a view top end picks means top end midfield. My view is, you definitely have a higher success rate but I am on the view midfielders can be found in the first two rounds e.g Kelly/Bolton/Fyfe

What I would be more curious is the correlation of top end picks for talls? Without any research and going from a hunch this would make more sense e.g Nic Nat, King, Franklin, Roughead, Pavlich, Kennedy, N & J Reiwoldt. I still think we should hit the draft with this need in mind, and mids can be found later.

 

[dinnaz]

Sorry, if i am returning to a topic a few pages ago.

There was a view top end picks means top end midfield. My view is, you definitely have a higher success rate but I am on the view midfielders can be found in the first two rounds e.g Kelly/Bolton/Fyfe

What I would be more curious is the correlation of top end picks for talls? Without any research and going from a hunch this would make more sense e.g Nic Nat, King, Franklin, Roughead. I still think we should hit the draft with this need in mind, and mids can be found later.

With elite key fwds, there could be 2 max in a draft or even none. So I would 100% jump early if I deemed someone that good. But then there's the McCartin/Petracca debate. Would you rather a best in competition player or a player who is structurally essential to your team.

 

[kane249]

Koby Stevens didn't turn out too badly at WB, it's mainly that we wouldn't give him much of an opportunity.
He retired early due to concussion.
We got pick 44 for him which wasn't bad result for a player with only 11 games in 3 years and probably would've been delisted soon.
Unfortunately we used that pick on Colledge. We could've ended up with Tim Membrey who was the pick after.

Stevens had some good games for the Bulldogs, but he also got regularly dropped. He eventually left to go to the Saints for more opportunity when he couldnt get a game with the Bulldogs anymore.

 

[juddy_Like]

Sorry, if i am returning to a topic a few pages ago.

There was a view top end picks means top end midfield. My view is, you definitely have a higher success rate but I am on the view midfielders can be found in the first two rounds e.g Kelly/Bolton/Fyfe

What I would be more curious is the correlation of top end picks for talls? Without any research and going from a hunch this would make more sense e.g Nic Nat, King, Franklin, Roughead, Pavlich, Kennedy, N & J Reiwoldt. I still think we should hit the draft with this need in mind, and mids can be found later.

Haven't looked into the stats at all but the names that instantly come front of mind in-regards to high KPP from last decade, don't come with much confidence.

Boyd, McCartin, Patton, Brander, Weideman, Schache.

 

[dinnaz]

Haven't looked into the stats at all but the names that instantly come front of mind in-regards to high KPP from last decade, don't come with much confidence.

Boyd, McCartin, Patton, Brander, Weideman, Schache.

Recruiters over pay for average talls. Brander & Weideman should have gone around 30 as they didn't perform spectacularly in their draft years. Schache & McCartin weren't the 1st and 2nd best players but since there weren't any other talls in the same class -they jumped a few picks early.
Boyd & Patton were so dominant as juniors #1 was justified. Injuries/mental health obviously impacted their careers which can't be predicted.

Max King, Ben King, Riley Thilthorpe, Logan McDonald, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan all look pretty good so far as real top end Key Fwds.
Id be happy to pick up a quality tall this year to pair along side Oscar Allen. If not take a quality midfielder or general fwd.

 

[WCErevival]

Didnt we just draft Williams and Bazzo?

 

[mattyc75]

Recruiters over pay for average talls. Brander & Weideman should have gone around 30 as they didn't perform spectacularly in their draft years. Schache & McCartin weren't the 1st and 2nd best players but since there weren't any other talls in the same class -they jumped a few picks early.
Boyd & Patton were so dominant as juniors #1 was justified. Injuries/mental health obviously impacted their careers which can't be predicted.

Max King, Ben King, Riley Thilthorpe, Logan McDonald, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan all look pretty good so far as real top end Key Fwds.
Id be happy to pick up a quality tall this year to pair along side Oscar Allen. If not take a quality midfielder or general fwd.

I think we let jwilliams develop while darling has got a few years left.give him a year or 2 to see what he's got before going early with a kpf. Mids and a ruck is where we need to be. Cant rely on BWilliams, jamieson or strnadica at this stage to take over from naitanui

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[shooshka]

Recruiters over pay for average talls. Brander & Weideman should have gone around 30 as they didn't perform spectacularly in their draft years. Schache & McCartin weren't the 1st and 2nd best players but since there weren't any other talls in the same class -they jumped a few picks early.
Boyd & Patton were so dominant as juniors #1 was justified. Injuries/mental health obviously impacted their careers which can't be predicted.

Max King, Ben King, Riley Thilthorpe, Logan McDonald, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan all look pretty good so far as real top end Key Fwds.
Id be happy to pick up a quality tall this year to pair along side Oscar Allen. If not take a quality midfielder or general fwd.

Barrass, Edwards, Bazzo looks a decent backline. 1 proven, 1 well on the way and 1 developing.

Allen the only key forward, with Waterman a 3rd tall. Dixon as a fwd ruck is still in the developing category with JWilliams, but he could move towards on the way if he keeps going like he did on the weekend.

Sure, if there is an elite tall there then we take him, but 50/50 calls need to lean towards mids for us now.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FKASC]

Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

32

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

- 47
Tom McDonald

25

Tom Mcdonald

Age

32

Ht

195cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

261.8

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.6

1star

MG

135.6

2star

D

13.8

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

- 53
Ash Hansen - 38
Quentin Lynch - Rookie

If you simply prioritise your midfield, it won’t matter how late your KPF were drafted.

 

[briztoon]

I believe you’re looking at “where quality mids come from in the draft” discussion a little wrong.

Recruiting and talent identification continues to evolve, as does the game itself.

What happened 10 or more years ago, isn’t necessarily what is going to continue to occur, and outliers such as Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

, are just that, outliers.

My personal opinion is that most top quality mids/players, ones who can make a difference, such as Petracca, Bontempeli, Martin will be drafted in the top 10.

Good quality complimentary mids will mostly be found in the top 30.

I’ll have more to say on this when I have the time.

 

[Obeanie1]

I think this is a fairly good guideline to follow. As well as players taken in a similar range. There are always guys like Robbie Grey #55 who slip past everybody and it's not a fair judgment if there's a total unknown player, injury, player flaws etc.
2018 Draft had a great top end. You would have to say at the moment that Rozee at #5 looks to be a bad call with Ben King, Bailey Smith and Tarryn Thomas still available.

1​	Carlton​	Sam Walsh​	64​
2​	Gold Coast​	Jack Lukosius​	64​
3​	Gold Coast​	Izak Rankine​	32​
4​	St Kilda​	Max King​	42​
5​	Port Adelaide​	Connor Rozee​	63​
6​	Gold Coast​	Ben King​	53​
7​	Western Bulldogs​	Bailey Smith​	70​
8​	North Melbourne​	Tarryn Thomas (Academy)​	49​

That Rozee pick at5 is looking pretty terrible.

 

[ziad]

Barrass, Edwards, Bazzo looks a decent backline. 1 proven, 1 well on the way and 1 developing.

Allen the only key forward, with Waterman a 3rd tall. Dixon as a fwd ruck is still in the developing category with JWilliams, but he could move towards on the way if he keeps going like he did on the weekend.

Sure, if there is an elite tall there then we take him, but 50/50 calls need to lean towards mids for us now.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

What you are saying is that we dont have a credible third tall.

 

[FKASC]

That Rozee pick at5 is looking pretty terrible.

It wasn’t during that first season or two - he was huge but has plateaued/gone backwards

 

[Tugga27]

That Rozee pick at5 is looking pretty terrible.

Izak Rankine is probably looking worse IMO.

 

[dewcefault]

Izak Rankine is probably looking worse IMO.

Could have had both king bros instead but would have had to pick them at 2 & 3.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Update Nov 2022 provisional draft picks

As of results this weekend -
Pick 4
Pick 19
Pick 22
Pick 40
Pick 76

 

[FKASC]

Update Nov 2022 provisional draft picks

As of results this weekend -
Pick 4
Pick 19
Pick 22
Pick 40
Pick 76

Has a 2009 feel

 

[briztoon]

I believe you’re looking at “where quality mids come from in the draft” discussion a little wrong.

Recruiting and talent identification continues to evolve, as does the game itself.

What happened 10 or more years ago, isn’t necessarily what is going to continue to occur, and outliers such as Lachie Neale, are just that, outliers.

My personal opinion is that most top quality mids/players, ones who can make a difference, such as Petracca, Bontempeli, Martin will be drafted in the top 10.

Good quality complimentary mids will mostly be found in the top 30.

I’ll have more to say on this when I have the time.

Following on from my previous post…

Every year the draft crop is different, the depth of top tier talent, second tier and third tier is different, and then the depth beyond the first round is different.

The 2018 draft was very deep for top end talent, second tier talent, but then very, very little talent after about pick 17 or 18 (after Duursma basically).

2017 had no top tier talent. 2020 and 2021 were both deep in that third tier of talent, out 30+.

And then there are talented kids who get overlooked early every year. They’re either too small, or too slow, or aren’t a good kick, but just about elite in every other facet.

If you’re a club with multiple positions to fill, and only one pick at the top end of the draft, you balance up the likely talent available at your first pick, with the probable talent available at your next picks/pick.

Sometimes there’s an obvious no brainer selection at your first pick, sometimes there’s not, and that’s when you much more criticism of a selection.

 

[WCE_phil]

To me so far as extreme top end talent goes there's only a couple of midfield prospects but potentially 5-6 talls. If the worst case scenario happens and we end up with pick 1 or 2 i'd love to be able to turn that into 2 picks inside the top 8. Can potentially pick up a high end tall and the second or third best midfield prospect in the draft.

If you consider say teams that are likely to finish low on the Ladder you would think North and Port if they stay where they are, are almost certain to pick talls. I'd say the crows are looking for mids, hawks best probable midfield again and if Richmond and GWS do continue to fall away you'd have to say talls would be what they are chasing. I can't see the dogs staying this low on the ladder. GC again I would say would go tall if the top tier talent is there even after taking Andrew last year.

So say if you turn pick 2 into 4 & 8 (it's really not unreasonable) you're likely to pick up the second best Mid prospect and a very, very good tall prospect as well. In saying that mids tend to bolt up the list as the season develops.

 

[UseR2006]

Since this year seems to be a year for talls, any good Ruck prospects as it looks like we might get some decent picks this year?

 

[ArdentEagle]

Looking at a lot of the A grade mids who have slid over the years. They nearly all have one thing in common. They're short (by AFL standards)

Too much weight is put into height of mids for mine. One touch, vision, game IQ, skills ect are important. Height should be just a bonus.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

We need to word up Elijah Hewitt, tell oppo recruiters he only wants to stay in Perth.

 

[bzparkes]

Looking at a lot of the A grade mids who have slid over the years. They nearly all have one thing in common. They're short (by AFL standards)

Too much weight is put into height of mids for mine. One touch, vision, game IQ, skills ect are important. Height should be just a bonus.

 

[The_Gambler]

How many grand finals have been won without a dominant key forward or two in the last 20 years? 100% we take a max king

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

equivalent if available

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

How many grand finals have been won without a dominant key forward or two in the last 20 years? 100% we take a max king equivalent if available

Fev was the most dominant goal kicker for years but Carlton had no midfield to compete.

Pavlich the same and by the time freo made a GF he was cooked