List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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[JackOutback]

24 is middle aged in AFL terms.

But the maturity level of most AFL players is mid teens.

 

[SumaGodCoach]

There is a very important reason why we should take Sheezel if we rate him BPA beyond the fact that he is rated BPA. That is the fact that it would set an awful precedent which would hurt us in future draft years. If we don't take him even if we do end up rating him BPA that would amount to rolling over in what essentially amounts to blackmail and manipulation of the draft process. Once the word gets out that West Coast rolled, more and more Vic players will be emboldened to pull this kind of rubbish in future years and we will end up missing out on top talent as a result.

 

[FKASC]

The real risk is if he’s permainjured in his first year like so many of our draftees seem to be. If he misses large chunks of the year then he’ll just end up like so many of the GC and GWS first rounders that end up going back home for cheap

 

[WCE_phil]

There is a very important reason why we should take Sheezel if we rate him BPA beyond the fact that he is rated BPA. That is the fact that it would set an awful precedent which would hurt us in future draft years. If we don't take him even if we do end up rating him BPA that would amount to rolling over in what essentially amounts to blackmail and manipulation of the draft process. Once the word gets out that West Coast rolled, more and more Vic players will be emboldened to pull this kind of rubbish in future years and we will end up missing out on top talent as a result.

There are good reasons to also not draft him. If he's on the board and we receive a godfather offer from hawks. Say a drop down of a couple of places for their first this year and next with one of our seconds going back to them I would absolutely make the trade.

 

[Cuzz09]

I feel like this season is dragging on and I just want trade time and the draft to come now.

The shit part of the Eagles life cycle

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[FKASC]

I feel like this season is dragging on and I just want trade time and the draft to come now.

The s**t part of the Eagles life cycle

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You just know this thread’s gonna get 10 times shitter after the season’s over too

 

[Cuzz09]

You just know this thread’s gonna get 10 times shitter after the season’s over too

Yeah but closer to something happening.

And funny for the melts when we eventually do some terrible trade/pick

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[Chump Change]

I think we can bounce back in 2023 with some tough list management decisions and a strong preseason and enter 2023 with very few injuries.

Some unpopular decisions I think need to be made

Gaff trade 2nd or 3rd round if we get a pick between 35-45 hopefully find a gem.
Reddan retire. Served as well but too slow in the midfield.
Langdon would have delisted but has a year left on contact. Delist and pay out.
JK and hurn retire. Great servants but time to move on
Winder delist maybe rookie
Nelson delist
Petch trade 3rd/4th rounder
Dixon delist thanks for your help
Naish delist thanks for your help
Witherden delist very poor ball use.
Joyce delist thanks for your help.

Put all your energy into getting liam
Baker.

My starting 22 round one 2023

FB Bazzo barrass duggan
HB yeo McGovern JJ
C Sheed Kelly Hough
HF waterman Allen Rioli
FF Ryan Darling Cripps
R NN Shuey Baker
B Luke Edwards chesser culley first round pick

The team looks refreshed and has a good amount of under 23s with Allen, luke Edwards chesser, culley, Hough, Bazzo culley and our first rounder.

Cripps and shuey go on, could be their last year in 2023. Can’t retire off everyone at once. Staggered approach here.

That team is still bottom 4ish. It's not going to be able to compete with the big dogs in the midfield.

Why do you feel we need to "bounce back"? It's a recipe for mid table.

Have a look at Saints and Swans. They don't have a list that will take them all the way. Why do we want to be like them? They're just going to hover around 5th - 10th and find it really hard to find those really good players to go all the way.

Have a look at the best teams right now;

Dees - Oliver, Petracca
Cats - Really balanced with Cameron and Hawkins up front, Stewart down back
Freo - Brayshaw, Fyfe, Serong
Blues - Cripps, Walsh, Curnow, McKay. They are going to contest the flag over the next few years.
Lions - Neale, McLuggage


As bad as North are (and they are atrocious atm), but they have LDU and JHF. I have them closer to a flag than 11 other teams. In front of them are only Dees, Cats, Lions, Dockers, Blues, Suns.

 

[eagles rule]

If he puts in 1 performance in the midfield against a strong side I would be happy to pick him with pick 2 even with all the risks. Worst case scenario is we are likely dealing with hawks for 2 first round picks for him.

I would also like to see how he goes in the midfield..
Do you have a report on his performance v WA ? It seemed like he started brightly for 10 minutes then disappeared ..


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[Hap Hapablap]

I don't think people "want him out". If you want to trade in good players then you have to give up good players (or picks). We only have a few people on our list with currency and he is one of them.

hes an untouchable.

trade out others.

the amount of investment time and support the club gave him, he will be one of the last out of the door.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

Potentially stupid post warning for anyone easily triggered....


Heard Tom Browne (I know) tonight suggesting Brodie Grundy is as good as gone from Collingwood.

Would we consider him, on the proviso that Gaff is part of the package we sent back (assuming Gaff is actually happy to leave).

Grundy is 28, with another 5 years @ $1m per season (and I've previously said not to pay massive amounts for a ruckman, so completely contradicting myself... possibly even talking myself out of it).

Contract $ similar (Grundy probably on an extra $200k). Contract length 5 years (Gaff has 2 left). Both 28. Small possibility Collingwood would throw in a pick for the salary dump.


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hes a south australian, he will head back to radelaide.

 

[WCE_phil]

I would also like to see how he goes in the midfield..
Do you have a report on his performance v WA ? It seemed like he started brightly for 10 minutes then disappeared ..


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I have a full report of the game which I can't post here but I will send you a private message with my breakdown of Sheezel's game. I was at the game and haven't watched the TV footage. I'm travelling in my role specifically to watch all of Vic Metro's games. I think it's really important to understand that Wardlaw and Tsatas if they were fit would be playing full time midfield for them so i've been disappointed by Sheezel not being given time as a midfielder at the champs level.

I feel the same with Philippou and SA. It is as though AFL clubs are having an influence on where players are playing almost as though to hide the players in plain sight.

 

[Bacchus]

If this year's crop is not the best and Sheezel is the best prospect, if he turns out well, perhaps convincing him to be an Eagle for life or trading him for a lot of good picks later is the best scenario.

Don’t like the idea of getting a player with such a crucial pick who is a good chance to leave.

It is correct to say that we should be able to get good compensation if he leaves but it effectively puts the rebuild/transition back two years. It’s a waste of development capital to put it into someone who is going to leave. It may happen that a player leaves but it’s not the best option and should be avoided if possible. I don’t think I would be going near Sheezel if what we have heard is true even if he is the best player.

 

[Chump Change]

hes an untouchable.

trade out others.

the amount of investment time and support the club gave him, he will be one of the last out of the door.

Yep, lets trade out all our 3rd and 4th rounders and expect 1st and 2nd rounders in return.

 

[shooshka]

hes a south australian, he will head back to radelaide.

Would they be happy to pay $1m a season for 5 years though?

We wouldn't without offloading a similar contract (at least for part of the 5 year contract length).

I think Grundy is a very good player, not worth $1m a year but that is his contract. We also have a huge issue in the ruck department (when Nic isn't on the ground... and in 1-2 years that will be permanent unfortunately as he will be retired).

Grundy probably offers more to our team than Gaff, and out salary cap shouldn't be in bad shape in 2-4 years.

I get that he is a south australian, but I'm just pondering whether there is sufficient value there for us to dip our hat in the ring.

 

[Bacchus]

I think we can bounce back in 2023 with some tough list management decisions and a strong preseason and enter 2023 with very few injuries.

Some unpopular decisions I think need to be made

Gaff trade 2nd or 3rd round if we get a pick between 35-45 hopefully find a gem.
Reddan retire. Served as well but too slow in the midfield.
Langdon would have delisted but has a year left on contact. Delist and pay out.
JK and hurn retire. Great servants but time to move on
Winder delist maybe rookie
Nelson delist
Petch trade 3rd/4th rounder
Dixon delist thanks for your help
Naish delist thanks for your help
Witherden delist very poor ball use.
Joyce delist thanks for your help.

Put all your energy into getting liam
Baker.

My starting 22 round one 2023

FB Bazzo barrass duggan
HB yeo McGovern JJ
C Sheed Kelly Hough
HF waterman Allen Rioli
FF Ryan Darling Cripps
R NN Shuey Baker
B Luke Edwards chesser culley first round pick

The team looks refreshed and has a good amount of under 23s with Allen, luke Edwards chesser, culley, Hough, Bazzo culley and our first rounder.

Cripps and shuey go on, could be their last year in 2023. Can’t retire off everyone at once. Staggered approach here.

Not a bad looking team at least on paper, but a second ruck is needed to support Naitanu. I don’t want to see OAllen’s career ruined playing this role to which he is not suited.

I would like to see Cole get a spot, I think he is a good player and we have missed him this year.

 

[Bacchus]

There is a very important reason why we should take Sheezel if we rate him BPA beyond the fact that he is rated BPA. That is the fact that it would set an awful precedent which would hurt us in future draft years. If we don't take him even if we do end up rating him BPA that would amount to rolling over in what essentially amounts to blackmail and manipulation of the draft process. Once the word gets out that West Coast rolled, more and more Vic players will be emboldened to pull this kind of rubbish in future years and we will end up missing out on top talent as a result.

I appreciate the logic of your position but I think as a football club you do whatever is best for your club at the time. If draftees are refusing to leave their home states then that is the AFL’s problem not West Coast’s. Wouldn’t go near a player who indicated he didn’t want to come. We would be stupid to make ourselves the sacrificial lamb for what amounts to a system defect.

This year if it comes to it and he is still available, Busslinger is an outstanding talent if we can’t get a midfielder commensurate with the pick. Hope the AFL don’t do anything stupid and give NM the first two picks.

 

[3agles87]

That team is still bottom 4ish. It's not going to be able to compete with the big dogs in the midfield.

Why do you feel we need to "bounce back"? It's a recipe for mid table.

Have a look at Saints and Swans. They don't have a list that will take them all the way. Why do we want to be like them? They're just going to hover around 5th - 10th and find it really hard to find those really good players to go all the way.

Have a look at the best teams right now;

Dees - Oliver, Petracca
Cats - Really balanced with Cameron and Hawkins up front, Stewart down back
Freo - Brayshaw, Fyfe, Serong
Blues - Cripps, Walsh, Curnow, McKay. They are going to contest the flag over the next few years.
Lions - Neale, McLuggage


As bad as North are (and they are atrocious atm), but they have LDU and JHF. I have them closer to a flag than 11 other teams. In front of them are only Dees, Cats, Lions, Dockers, Blues, Suns.

Could you just remind us again what you think we should do with our first pick. It gets hard to follow what you are suggesting when there are two posts in between each of your posts restating the same thing.

 

[WCE_phil]

I appreciate the logic of your position but I think as a football club you do whatever is best for your club at the time. If draftees are refusing to leave their home states then that is the AFL’s problem not West Coast’s. Wouldn’t go near a player who indicated he didn’t want to come. We would be stupid to make ourselves the sacrificial lamb for what amounts to a system defect.

This year if it comes to it and he is still available, Busslinger is an outstanding talent if we can’t get a midfielder commensurate with the pick. Hope the AFL don’t do anything stupid and give NM the first two picks.

I would almost guarantee if North have the top 2 picks Busslinger is taken with one of them. If they only have the one then I don't think so but a lot stranger things have happened at the draft. If North go small there are multiple permutations of what could happen. Either every team just takes who they think is best available etc or there is a bit of a bidding war on either the second or third live pick.

Essendon realistically with so many mids on their list could go Busslinger as well.

Adelaide I see just going with whomever they consider the best available small to be.

The ducks and drakes to me in this draft is if North go small how much does a club like Hawthorn want to get ahead of Essendon. The hawks may well consider say Sheezel as the best option and know that if we take Busslinger before Essendon the dons then obviously go small.

I would suggest however whether that Hawthorn pick is pick 4,5 or 6 in the live draft that no matter what happens by that point Busslinger is almost certainly off the table if we were to trade down.

If we follow the supposed draft logic as it stands at the moment.

You'd have
1. Ashcroft
2. Wardlaw
3. We trade to hawks for their first, future first with either a second this year or next years second going back to them. Hawks select Sheezel
4. Busslinger or Tsatas
5. Philippou
6. WCE new pick. Leaves either Hewett, Tsatas or Busslinger, Clark and a host of others.

It only gets really interesting if Hawks finish above GWS. Because GWS I have no idea who they would pick and that would definitely leave us in a conundrum. To me the trade down is only worth it if it gets us the trading teams next years first as well. The hawks will likely be banking upon improvement next year and all clubs will think we'll sit roughly where we are now. I'd prefer 1 top 6 pick this year and 2 top 10 odd picks next year over say live pick 2 and 1 top 10 pick next year.

I think this is the year to make the smaller cut and then have the more major culls over the next 2-3 years.

 

[SumaGodCoach]

I appreciate the logic of your position but I think as a football club you do whatever is best for your club at the time. If draftees are refusing to leave their home states then that is the AFL’s problem not West Coast’s. Wouldn’t go near a player who indicated he didn’t want to come. We would be stupid to make ourselves the sacrificial lamb for what amounts to a system defect.

This year if it comes to it and he is still available, Busslinger is an outstanding talent if we can’t get a midfielder commensurate with the pick. Hope the AFL don’t do anything stupid and give NM the first two picks.

There is a % chance that we can convince him to stay in the 2 years of his first contract. Maybe Sheezel is dead set serious that he does not want to leave Victoria, and he will kick up a stink if we take him and demand to be traded in 2 years. Or maybe it is just a bluff to try and get away with something and if West Coast takes him he will be a consummate professional. At the very least our position needs to be that we will take him if BPA in order to force Hawthorn and Essendon to trade up if they want him. Is there a chance that Busslinger can become a key forward Naughton style or is Busslinger just so good as an intercept defender that you wouldn't want to entertain that?

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

If he puts in 1 performance in the midfield against a strong side I would be happy to pick him with pick 2 even with all the risks. Worst case scenario is we are likely dealing with hawks for 2 first round picks for him.

Yeah, that's my worst case scenario we trade to the hawks for 2 x first rounders.

 

[3agles87]

I would almost guarantee if North have the top 2 picks Busslinger is taken with one of them. If they only have the one then I don't think so but a lot stranger things have happened at the draft. If North go small there are multiple permutations of what could happen. Either every team just takes who they think is best available etc or there is a bit of a bidding war on either the second or third live pick.

Essendon realistically with so many mids on their list could go Busslinger as well.

Adelaide I see just going with whomever they consider the best available small to be.

The ducks and drakes to me in this draft is if North go small how much does a club like Hawthorn want to get ahead of Essendon. The hawks may well consider say Sheezel as the best option and know that if we take Busslinger before Essendon the dons then obviously go small.

I would suggest however whether that Hawthorn pick is pick 4,5 or 6 in the live draft that no matter what happens by that point Busslinger is almost certainly off the table if we were to trade down.

If we follow the supposed draft logic as it stands at the moment.

You'd have
1. Ashcroft
2. Wardlaw
3. We trade to hawks for their first, future first with either a second this year or next years second going back to them. Hawks select Sheezel
4. Busslinger or Tsatas
5. Philippou
6. WCE new pick. Leaves either Hewett, Tsatas or Busslinger, Clark and a host of others.

It only gets really interesting if Hawks finish above GWS. Because GWS I have no idea who they would pick and that would definitely leave us in a conundrum. To me the trade down is only worth it if it gets us the trading teams next years first as well. The hawks will likely be banking upon improvement next year and all clubs will think we'll sit roughly where we are now. I'd prefer 1 top 6 pick this year and 2 top 10 odd picks next year over say live pick 2 and 1 top 10 pick next year.

I think this is the year to make the smaller cut and then have the more major culls over the next 2-3 years.

Is there any chance Sheezle slips in ahead of Wardlaw forcing North to consider him with its pick? What does that do to interest in our pick? Do we just then take Wardlaw or is there still value in trading out for pick this year and next?

 

[WCE_phil]

Is there any chance Sheezle slips in ahead of Wardlaw forcing North to consider him with its pick? What does that do to interest in our pick? Do we just then take Wardlaw or is there still value in trading out for pick this year and next?

Depends on the rest of the year. If JHF continues to look unhappy I think they go Wardlaw as the closest like for like. If JHF commits to a contract extension and any one of of Sheezel, Tsatas or Philippou blow it out of the park between now and then it's a really different story. Or if Busslinger continues to do very well and JHF signs on Busslinger could well go at pick 1.

 

[Goroyals22]

Are you really calling 24 not young???

24 isn't young. If you have no idea of what's right and wrong at 24 and can assess the pros/cons of what you are doing then you have issues.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I would almost guarantee if North have the top 2 picks Busslinger is taken with one of them. If they only have the one then I don't think so but a lot stranger things have happened at the draft. If North go small there are multiple permutations of what could happen. Either every team just takes who they think is best available etc or there is a bit of a bidding war on either the second or third live pick.

Essendon realistically with so many mids on their list could go Busslinger as well.

Adelaide I see just going with whomever they consider the best available small to be.

The ducks and drakes to me in this draft is if North go small how much does a club like Hawthorn want to get ahead of Essendon. The hawks may well consider say Sheezel as the best option and know that if we take Busslinger before Essendon the dons then obviously go small.

I would suggest however whether that Hawthorn pick is pick 4,5 or 6 in the live draft that no matter what happens by that point Busslinger is almost certainly off the table if we were to trade down.

If we follow the supposed draft logic as it stands at the moment.

You'd have
1. Ashcroft
2. Wardlaw
3. We trade to hawks for their first, future first with either a second this year or next years second going back to them. Hawks select Sheezel
4. Busslinger or Tsatas
5. Philippou
6. WCE new pick. Leaves either Hewett, Tsatas or Busslinger, Clark and a host of others.

It only gets really interesting if Hawks finish above GWS. Because GWS I have no idea who they would pick and that would definitely leave us in a conundrum. To me the trade down is only worth it if it gets us the trading teams next years first as well. The hawks will likely be banking upon improvement next year and all clubs will think we'll sit roughly where we are now. I'd prefer 1 top 6 pick this year and 2 top 10 odd picks next year over say live pick 2 and 1 top 10 pick next year.

I think this is the year to make the smaller cut and then have the more major culls over the next 2-3 years.

I am liking this

Purely on points, we give up 2 and Port's R2 currently 25 for 5 and Hawks 2023 R1 lets call it 10. I would also do it for our pick 20 instead of Port's R2. I have a feeling that Hawks will be viewing their 2023 R1 as a single digit pick.


Of course, that may all change if Crows lure JHF home. They would need to give up their R1 and probably their R1 next year but get JHF and a Norf R2 in 2023. That scenario would leave Norf with 1, 4 and 19 (end of R1 priority pick) plus 2 x R1 in 2023 but no R2. Norf can get both Wardlaw or Sheezel at 1 and Busslinger at 4 plus best available at 19.

What we want to see is eagerness in at least 2 clubs to jump up for both or at least one of Busslinger and Sheezel. Don't discount he Dons coming with an offer. It will be more of what Hawks might be doing ahead of them if we sell to them as against who we take. We need to be indiscrete with our discussions with the Hawks/Dons

I think Tsatas star is slipping. His absence will be nearly 3 years where he has missed out of most of the season.