News Dons ASADA scandal (Latest: Pg 101 - CAS verdict. Guilty, 12 months.)

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ANZAC DAY 2016
 
http://www.theshovel.com.au/2016/01/15/james-hird-denies-ever-being-coach-at-essendon/

Breaking News
EXCLUSIVE: James Hird Denies Ever Being Coach At Essendon

Unhindered by contractual obligations or court proceedings, James Hird speaks exclusively about what really happened during Essendon’s disastrous 2012 season.

...was I in any way responsible, even in some small way? To believe that, you’d also have to believe that I had some kind of senior role, or at least some level of influence at the Essendon Football Club. And that is the stuff of conspiracy theories.
 

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rand corp said:
1487404_1093212410710074_2788822020993196188_n.jpg


ANZAC DAY 2016
Click to expand...

This one's been around for a couple of years. Still funny! :D

The really hilarious thing about that picture though is that each one of those remaining guys have been either delisted, suspended (or both) or been given the arse. So a more accurate punchline might just be no players or coach and an empty patch of grass...
 
Anzacday said:
What a bunch of pricks...

The parents of former Essendon player Hal Hunter are "appalled" that the AFL and Essendon are pursuing court costs against their son after he took legal action arising from the disastrous 2012 injection program.

James Hunter and Dr Melita Stevens say that the AFL and Essendon's "combative" approach to their son's situation contradicts the statements this week from AFL chairman Mike Fitzpatrick and Essendon's new chairman Lindsay Tanner about the importance of player welfare in the Essendon scandal.

Hunter and Dr Stevens are "deeply disappointed and upset" that the AFL and the club "chose to resist Hal's efforts to find out what he was injected with" in 2012 after 15 months of requests.

The parents of the player — who has taken court action in an attempt to discover what he was injected with — say the situation has taken a toll on their son and that they have "real concerns for his ongoing physical and mental well-being" not only because of what happened in his time at Essendon, but due to the obstructive stance the AFL and the club have taken in his case more recently.

Hunter and Dr Stevens noted that their son Hal was the youngest player at Essendon in 2012 — he was 18 when he arrived as a rookie-list player late in 2011. "Hal was part of the injection program from early 2012 and he received injections both at the club and offsite," the parents told Fairfax Media, in a joint statement.

"Since leaving the club at the end of 2013 and after 15 months of requests, Hal still does not know what the injections contained. Melita and I are appalled that not only are the club and AFL now pursuing costs against Hal but that he is having to go back to court again simply to get documents from the AFL." The Supreme Court ordered the AFL to hand Hal Hunter further documents from the supplements program, while the court accepted the Essendon lawyers' explanation that the records the club had given Hunter were the only ones available.

The lawyers acting for the AFL requested that Hunter pay the AFL's and Essendon's court costs — a stance that Essendon's lawyers have since supported.

Hunter did not receive an infraction notice — likely because he did not sign a consent form for the relevant substance — and thus avoided the year-long suspensions, but he is no longer playing football. Thirty-four current and ex-Essendon players received season bans for doping offences on Tuesday.

His court action was based upon the uncertainty about what he might have been injected with and the repercussions for his health.

Hunter is waiting on the arrival of AFL documents, as ordered by Justice Mukhtar, before considering his next move. Hunter and his parents urged the AFL and the club to meet with them and bring the matter to a conclusion.

Hunter and Dr Stevens said the approach by the club and the AFL was "totally at odds" with Tuesday's statements by Tanner and Fitzpatrick.

"Instead what we have seen from the club and AFL has been a combative stance resisting Hal at every turn. Documents have been released in dribs and drabs and at the very last moment, there have been ongoing delays, argument and of course mounting costs ...

"While we as a family and those close to him have tried to support Hal in this process, it has taken a huge toll on him. We have real concerns for his ongoing physical and mental well-being as a result of not only what happened at the club but the approach the club and AFL have taken to Hal's case since ...

"Hal should be given as much detail as possible in order for him to address the implications of the injection program at the club and, to allow him to get on with his life."

The Supreme Court is yet to make a ruling on costs.

The AFL would not comment on its decision to seek legal costs, but a spokesperson said: "The AFL has done whatever in our power to find out what the players were given in 2012. We have seized documents and hard drives, we have interviewed all relevant people who were willing to cooperate, we have analysed phone messages, and sought assistance from the anti-doping authorities.

"We are in the same position as the players that we are unable to identify many of the substances used in the program in 2012, or determine which player received which substance. We are concerned for the players and are talking with the players' association about welfare and support going forward."

Essendon declined to comment.



http://www.theage.com.au/afl/essend...hal-hunter-20160115-gm6l85.html#ixzz3xJPW9Qze
Click to expand...

The 2 things to note from that report :

  1. Shuts the door on any "this is all about the players and their welfare, they need to be supported in all this". Both the AFLand EFC have basically given Hal Hunter the finger and then sunk the boot by demanding costs. Why is this particular player not being supported - not a big enough "name", has he broken ranks by taken legal action to force answers? Where is the AFLPA in this, why are they not representing his interests?
  2. Infractions and ultimately suspensions were handed to the 34 based on the consent forms, as according to this case others were part of the injection/doping regime but weren't suspended. Therefore as with Hal Hunter, are there others that were doping that are free to play and/or work in the AFL that haven't been sanctioned purely based on not signing that bit of paper? How many were on EFC's list in 2011/2012 .... 38, 39, 40, 41 players?
Interesting questions that are unlikely to be answered.
 
It's funny. During their carreers it was always a hird, visa and Buckley.


Hird was was adored by all. (He was a gun)


Voss was the IMV the bogan love child. The most over rated footballer to play in my eyes. Again was adored by many.

Bucks, the young man with an misunderstood highly driven ego, and imo at least the equal of hird if not better. Definitely better than Voss. Was despised by many for having the qualities most recruiters search for in the current era of players.


Now in the present and the saying that the cream always rises to the top is highly applicable here.



Bucks, now a highly respected coach with an up and coming team and is a model afl and human citizen. No slights could be made on this man. Now highly respected and loved by many as people understand this football marvel.

Voss, shown his true colors by being a himself, helped run his former club into the ground, had a few transgressions outside of footy to show what a class act he is.


And hird, single handedly has made the afl look like a joke. I won't go into it because we all know what he's done.
 
Anzacday said:
What a bunch of pricks...

The parents of former Essendon player Hal Hunter are "appalled" that the AFL and Essendon are pursuing court costs against their son after he took legal action arising from the disastrous 2012 injection program.

James Hunter and Dr Melita Stevens say that the AFL and Essendon's "combative" approach to their son's situation contradicts the statements this week from AFL chairman Mike Fitzpatrick and Essendon's new chairman Lindsay Tanner about the importance of player welfare in the Essendon scandal.

Hunter and Dr Stevens are "deeply disappointed and upset" that the AFL and the club "chose to resist Hal's efforts to find out what he was injected with" in 2012 after 15 months of requests.

The parents of the player — who has taken court action in an attempt to discover what he was injected with — say the situation has taken a toll on their son and that they have "real concerns for his ongoing physical and mental well-being" not only because of what happened in his time at Essendon, but due to the obstructive stance the AFL and the club have taken in his case more recently.

Hunter and Dr Stevens noted that their son Hal was the youngest player at Essendon in 2012 — he was 18 when he arrived as a rookie-list player late in 2011. "Hal was part of the injection program from early 2012 and he received injections both at the club and offsite," the parents told Fairfax Media, in a joint statement.

"Since leaving the club at the end of 2013 and after 15 months of requests, Hal still does not know what the injections contained. Melita and I are appalled that not only are the club and AFL now pursuing costs against Hal but that he is having to go back to court again simply to get documents from the AFL." The Supreme Court ordered the AFL to hand Hal Hunter further documents from the supplements program, while the court accepted the Essendon lawyers' explanation that the records the club had given Hunter were the only ones available.

The lawyers acting for the AFL requested that Hunter pay the AFL's and Essendon's court costs — a stance that Essendon's lawyers have since supported.

Hunter did not receive an infraction notice — likely because he did not sign a consent form for the relevant substance — and thus avoided the year-long suspensions, but he is no longer playing football. Thirty-four current and ex-Essendon players received season bans for doping offences on Tuesday.

His court action was based upon the uncertainty about what he might have been injected with and the repercussions for his health.

Hunter is waiting on the arrival of AFL documents, as ordered by Justice Mukhtar, before considering his next move. Hunter and his parents urged the AFL and the club to meet with them and bring the matter to a conclusion.

Hunter and Dr Stevens said the approach by the club and the AFL was "totally at odds" with Tuesday's statements by Tanner and Fitzpatrick.

"Instead what we have seen from the club and AFL has been a combative stance resisting Hal at every turn. Documents have been released in dribs and drabs and at the very last moment, there have been ongoing delays, argument and of course mounting costs ...

"While we as a family and those close to him have tried to support Hal in this process, it has taken a huge toll on him. We have real concerns for his ongoing physical and mental well-being as a result of not only what happened at the club but the approach the club and AFL have taken to Hal's case since ...

"Hal should be given as much detail as possible in order for him to address the implications of the injection program at the club and, to allow him to get on with his life."

The Supreme Court is yet to make a ruling on costs.

The AFL would not comment on its decision to seek legal costs, but a spokesperson said: "The AFL has done whatever in our power to find out what the players were given in 2012. We have seized documents and hard drives, we have interviewed all relevant people who were willing to cooperate, we have analysed phone messages, and sought assistance from the anti-doping authorities.

"We are in the same position as the players that we are unable to identify many of the substances used in the program in 2012, or determine which player received which substance. We are concerned for the players and are talking with the players' association about welfare and support going forward."

Essendon declined to comment.



http://www.theage.com.au/afl/essend...hal-hunter-20160115-gm6l85.html#ixzz3xJPW9Qze
Click to expand...


Saying that the AFL and Essendon have poorly handled this is a GROSS understatement.

Heads should roll at the AFL and Essendon (more heads) over this, and I bloody hope the players take class action against the club/league.

The CAS verdict only exposed how truly corrupt the AFL is and how incapable it is to adequately adjudicate its sport when it needs to.
 
http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...ayers-off-asadas-hit-list-20140613-3a3g6.html

The above article says asada only charged those who signed the consent form or put their hand up to receiving injections.


2012 Essendon players not charged:
(*2016 Essendon listed)

Press saying they didn't partake:
Zaharakis* (scared of needles)

Press saying they received injections:
Hunter

Unknown:
Baguley*, Dalgleish, Dempsey*, Kavanagh, Long, J. Merrett*, O'Brien, Reimers, Ross, Winderlich



I can find press of Reimers criticising the program, but nothing confirming if he was involved or not.
 
Quicky said:
What's the best article to provide a synopsis of this sorry saga?
Click to expand...

gutsroy put together a good summary here

Out of interest gutsroy , where did you find that comment by Prof. Handelsman? I went through the judgement on the CAS website and couldn't see it in there?
 
76woodenspooners said:
gutsroy put together a good summary here

Out of interest gutsroy , where did you find that comment by Prof. Handelsman? I went through the judgement on the CAS website and couldn't see it in there?
Click to expand...
I found this article from the Herald Sun written in April 2015 that was written after the ASADA findings were assessed by the AFL Tribunal.

SENIOR players including Mark McVeigh “bluntly” questioned the Bombers’ injection regimen shortly after it was introduced in 2012, the AFL tribunal’s judgment in the failed doping case against the Essendon 34 reveals.

Current and former players were cleared this week of using banned peptide Thymosin beta-4.

The 132-page judgment, obtained by the Herald Sun, reveals some of the players’ views of the controversial supplements program.

The Herald Sun has chosen only to name players who have previously been identified.

The report — the public release of which is being considered by the players — states that in January 2012 concerns were raised at a player leadership meeting.

Essendon captain Jobe Watson told ASADA interviewers McVeigh “used blunt words” to question the injection program led by former Essendon sports scientist Stephen Dank, who is still awaiting judgment from the tribunal.


v1

“Mark was saying, ‘What the hell’s this new supplement program that we’re doing? What is it? These injections, s---, I don’t like it. Where’s it coming from? I want to know ... the players were concerned ... I’ve never heard of injections being done before’.

“That was the common theme from the group.”

McVeigh, who retired at the end of the 2012 season and is now an assistant coach at GWS, initially expressed shock that Essendon was being investigated in February 2013. But after being interviewed by ASADA four months later, he admitted to being alarmed by what he had been told.

The judgment states the player leadership meeting occurred the day before club doctor Bruce Reid wrote to coach James Hird and football boss Paul Hamilton, also raising his concerns about the program. Following the player meeting, fitness boss Dean Robinson drafted consent forms for players to sign.

Professor David Handelsman, director of reproductive endocrinology and andrology at the ANZAC Research Institute, was asked to comment on the consent form when he gave evidence to the tribunal.

Prof Handelsman described the form as “alarmingly inadequate” because, among other reasons, there was “no description of what Thymosin is or what it does”, and that it “fails to provide sufficient information and adequate understanding of participation; no description of the manner or site of injection; no proper description of risks including listing of reported side-effects”.

He also noted “numerous spelling and grammatical mistakes indicating an unprofessional construction”.

The judgment says Angus Monfries — now at Port Adelaide — “recalled Mr Hird saying that they would be pushing the boundaries but it would be completely legal and state of the art”.

Another player recalled Robinson told the players that the program was like being on a cliff and going right to the end — but not over it.

The judgment also states the players were “directed to keep the program secret”.

Paddy Ryder, also now at Port, recalled: “It had to stay in-house because they didn’t want it getting out ... they thought that this would give us a competitive edge.”

So the leadership group has a meeting and discussed the injections, next day Reid writes to Hamilton and Hird (doesn't see the letter for a year) and then the consent forms get drafted up and Paddy Ryder says that it all had to stay in house because they didn't want it to get out. Somehow everyone but James Hird knew what was going on? I mean seriously does Hird really expect us to believe he knew nothing?

It appears to go something like this.

1. Hird asks Robson to get the club doctor out of the way.
2. The players were alarmed with the program.
3. Reid writes to Hamilton and Hird the very next day raising his concerns about being kept out of the loop.
4. Consent forms a prepared and signed by the players.
5. The players are instructed to say nothing.
6. Players get two year bans.
7. Hird knew nothing.
8. Hird throws everyone else involved under a bus.

Have I missed something here?
 
DinoSoar said:
Infractions and ultimately suspensions were handed to the 34 based on the consent forms, as according to this case others were part of the injection/doping regime but weren't suspended. Therefore as with Hal Hunter, are there others that were doping that are free to play and/or work in the AFL that haven't been sanctioned purely based on not signing that bit of paper? How many were on EFC's list in 2011/2012 .... 38, 39, 40, 41 players?
Interesting questions that are unlikely to be answered.
Click to expand...
2011 - 47 (40 + 7 on the Rookie List)
2012 - 46 (40 + 6 on the Rookie List)

Josh Jenkins was at Essendon in 2011, he looks to be the only player now on another AFL club's list (leaving out Crameri, Ryder etc.).

Edit:
2011 - 14 still at Essendon - 6 at other AFL clubs.
2012 - 16 still at Essendon - 5 at other AFL clubs.
 
Last edited:

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Lord Wilberforce said:
Sorry if this has already been posted, but brilliant audio editorial from Gerard Healy here.
Click to expand...

The whole refusal to enter into a negotiated settlement in some zero sum game in order to protect Hird's reputation is shameful stuff.
 
1892 said:
http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...ayers-off-asadas-hit-list-20140613-3a3g6.html

The above article says asada only charged those who signed the consent form or put their hand up to receiving injections.


2012 Essendon players not charged:
(*2016 Essendon listed)

Press saying they didn't partake:
Zaharakis* (scared of needles)

Press saying they received injections:
Hunter

Unknown:
Baguley*, Dalgleish, Dempsey*, Kavanagh, Long, J. Merrett*, O'Brien, Reimers, Ross, Winderlich



I can find press of Reimers criticising the program, but nothing confirming if he was involved or not.
Click to expand...

I don't 100% Believe that Zaharakis was Scared of Needles was only reason he was not Injected
 
Last edited:
TradeDraft said:
I don't 100% Believe that Zaharakis was Scared of Needles was only reason he was not Injectef
Click to expand...
There's quite a few posts on BigFooty and stories that can be found elsewhere that point out the story about Zaharakis being scared of needles was made up. e.g.:- http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...rnalistic-domain.1121299/page-2#post-42631559

One thing I've been critical of with Andy Maher is that he MC'd a lunch where Zaharakis spoke (a Marcellin event on 20 July 2013) and said that he wasn't truly scared of needles and that he was asked to go with that story.

Andy Maher ✔ @MGMaherSEN

Not so sure about the needle phobia thing. I think he refused on more principled grounds. Either way, what a position he finds himself in


8:28 AM - 12 Jan 2016 · Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

I think it was then up to Andy to challenge the prevailing Zaharakis narrative but other than hinting at it (eg ) he hasn't done so. Maybe because he's too close to Tim Watson.

and:- http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ilty-12-months.1050828/page-116#post-42598865

He is an old Marcellin boy and he spoke at one of our footy lunches a couple of years ago now. Andy Maher was the host. He asked Zaharakis about the program and why he didn't participate. Zaharakis said words to the effect of saying he wasn't scared of needles, he had all his immunisations at the club etc and you could read into that what you wanted.

He seems to have been the only player who had suspicions and acted on them. Wise man
 
35Daicos said:
There's quite a few posts on BigFooty and stories that can be found elsewhere that point out the story about Zaharakis being scared of needles was made up. e.g.:- http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...rnalistic-domain.1121299/page-2#post-42631559

One thing I've been critical of with Andy Maher is that he MC'd a lunch where Zaharakis spoke (a Marcellin event on 20 July 2013) and said that he wasn't truly scared of needles and that he was asked to go with that story.

Andy Maher ✔ @MGMaherSEN

Not so sure about the needle phobia thing. I think he refused on more principled grounds. Either way, what a position he finds himself in


8:28 AM - 12 Jan 2016 · Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

I think it was then up to Andy to challenge the prevailing Zaharakis narrative but other than hinting at it (eg ) he hasn't done so. Maybe because he's too close to Tim Watson.

and:- http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ilty-12-months.1050828/page-116#post-42598865

He is an old Marcellin boy and he spoke at one of our footy lunches a couple of years ago now. Andy Maher was the host. He asked Zaharakis about the program and why he didn't participate. Zaharakis said words to the effect of saying he wasn't scared of needles, he had all his immunisations at the club etc and you could read into that what you wanted.

He seems to have been the only player who had suspicions and acted on them. Wise man
Click to expand...

Does look like he was the only one who had the Balls to Act on his Suspicious on how Dodgy it looked and He was Correct
 
76woodenspooners said:
gutsroy put together a good summary here

Out of interest gutsroy , where did you find that comment by Prof. Handelsman? I went through the judgement on the CAS website and couldn't see it in there?
Click to expand...
The bit about him considering that the use of prohibited substances was endemic in the AFL in 2012? (148) in the award, the panel's view was that it could mean that his opinion was colored by it in terms of him not being inclined to believe that the elevated TB-4 levels in the 'Player A' sample could have been a result of strenuous exercise, injury or plasma platelet injection (rather than exogenous TB-4 administration)
 
Last edited:

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