EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(HUN)

[Dry Rot]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

This is really bad news for the club and a real stuff up

However, i have been concerned for sometime that while the club has had its eye on the ball on the field this year - it has not been managing things off the field all that well. And wonder whether it has bitten off more than it can chew

I wonder whether, for example, we have enough staff and the right staff internally in the club to manage two very big development projects which the club is now committed to, and/or the club had set in place the necessary project management to manage the roll out of all what is required.

Working with Councils etc. require consultation, lobbying and discussions with councillors and planning departments. I wonder whether this has occurred, or whether the planning applications etc have been dumped on Council at the last minute.

Maribyrnong is perhaps being unreasonable but given the pokies debacle, shouldn't the club have anticipated this might be a problem?

As it is, it now looks like the club will have to fight two cases at VCAT (Edgewater and the Whitten Development). It is a pity this could not have been avoided.

Councils are notorious at being nitpicky and ill willed but to play the Devil's Advocate ( albeit without all the facts so feel free to rebut):

The Footscray/Western Bulldogs Football Club is an historically understaffed organisation that has relied heavily on part time/volunteer workers to keep it running. I reflect back on the days when the 89 fightback was basically run out of the Tin shed next to the ground. When Rose took over, we were in a sorry financial state and many cuts were made to save money. I don't know all the facts but I am guessing we don't have quite the same numbers in our Admin offices as the Collingwood or Essendon Admins do.

As someone who has dealt with the Dogs on such seemingly simple things as organising a couple of players to come to a school or to an Auskick Clinic, the number of times this has been cancelled or delayed or stuffed up is difficult to calculate. There are some things we just still don't do well.

It is highly likely that an understaffed office at the club didn't quite get all the paperwork required in on time, considering the ridiculous amount of red tape councils typically make you fill in. If they can't give the correct school address to a couple of footballers who fail to turn up to a school clinic then it is highly probable this kind of administrative dealings with council over a big development was too much to handle.

I might be completely wrong over this and I'm not one who usually speculates on this forum, but I just have a feeling the Club is still a little off being a 100% professional organisation.

Hopefully the State Government intervention will get it all done and the Council doesn't crack the #@$$s over it.

It's amazing that up until the Darwin game, everything was a well oiled machine then bang! The Minson non story, the Handstand crap, the lacklustre Melbourne win and the Geelong embarrassment gets followed by this near disaster and all of a sudden it's all negative publicity for us. Maybe Cross and Williams need to go back to Asia and save a drowning person again!

Yes, I'm wondering too whether all this is 100% the bad old Council's fault?

 

[NBates]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

In consideration of the car park, it would be the times that the car park is being used i.e. at night, noise, pollution, traffic control etc. But considering it is a football club that used to be active - I would have thought that these considerations had already been planned for in the past.

That's the point. There is nothing around there (yet) that never used to be there. On 2 sides there are busy roads separating the ground from the houses (which have been there for years), on the 3rd side there is a major freight railway line and on the 4th side (the west) there is only 1 row of houses of which most have been there for years - behind this west side will be a high density housing estate where Olympic Tyres used to be, however they are only at levelling the ground stage so there will not be houses yet for ages. These residents won't be established for 12months or more, so no objections from them! Obviously there had been no objections from anyone established around the ground either, otherwise the state govt wouldn't have given it the go ahead.

 

[beyondthevalley ofthedogs]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Yes, I'm wondering too whether all this is 100% the bad old Council's fault?

Come and live in the good ol' City of Maribyrnong for a while and you'll realise pretty quickly who the guilty party is. They tried to "game" the Bulldogs in a pathetic display of amateur brinksmanship then hid behind the time honoured "due process" BS like any other shabby bureaucracy.

 

[wian]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

australia is the most over governed, over taxed country in the world, and the sad part is, we all put up with it and do nothing about it !

we should "ALL" be ashamed of ourselves for letting them screw us over all the time !

 

[BenF]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

I think Ill be voting Brumby now

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

australia is the most over governed, over taxed country in the world, and the sad part is, we all put up with it and do nothing about it !

we should "ALL" be ashamed of ourselves for letting them screw us over all the time !

Not sure your post has an abundance of relevance to the thread topic but I loved "the State of the nation" address anyway

 

[memberforever]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

I think Ill be voting Brumby now

a bulldogs director works for the Premiers department, I wonder if he had a word in some ones ear

 

[Dorval6]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Living in Maribyrnong I can vouch for the council's poor record.

Can't wait for the next council elections so we can toss out these morons (only to be replaced by other morons of course).

As for 'due process' - funny that the council finally decide this is important when for years they've let 'sponsors' rush through the planning stage!!!

 

[Dorval6]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

If the Council re-negs on the $million, we should burn the office's down or better relocate them to Francis Street. The problem with the Maribyrnong council' its now full of middle class marxist who think competitive sport is an evil. And they don't live in Footscray, they like to call it Sedden East, w***ers hope they choke on the Lattes

A bunch of elitist toss pots.

One wonders if this is just the curtain raiser to the 'Bulldog Hilton' battle??
They seemed to have no issue with approving tacky all night gambling dens like 'The Palms' in Rosamond Road but try and build a classy venue with a couple of poker machines in Toorak West (Edgewater) and it's gloves off.

Perhaps the Mayor's friends at 'Oprahs Book Club' don't want the common people interupting morning croquet!!

 

[beyondthevalley ofthedogs]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

A bunch of elitist toss pots.

One wonders if this is just the curtain raiser to the 'Bulldog Hilton' battle??
They seemed to have no issue with approving tacky all night gambling dens like 'The Palms' in Rosamond Road but try and build a classy venue with a couple of poker machines in Toorak West (Edgewater) and it's gloves off.

Perhaps the Mayor's friends at 'Oprahs Book Club' don't want the common people interupting morning croquet!!

Yet every year they roll up to the family day and talk up how much they love the Dogs (God, I'm still trying to erase the memory of the Michael Clarke's overblown theatrics from last year) and how they're supporting the developments at the Whitten Oval and please please vote for us. The problem is year after year you get the same line up of Labour Party hacks, Green Party wanna be's, local identity mediocrities and a token Socialist Alliance nutter. The Age and the ABC have been running stories on the lack of accountability and hence corruptubility of local councils. Well worth a read in the light of this.

 

[cragglerock]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

If I was the Mayor, I wouldn't bother turning up next year to our Family Day - unless you enjoy getting booed and ridiculed.

Local Councils are a waste of time.. what the hell do they do, besides tax us?!!

 

[Dorval6]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Yet every year they roll up to the family day and talk up how much they love the Dogs (God, I'm still trying to erase the memory of the Michael Clarke's overblown theatrics from last year) and how they're supporting the developments at the Whitten Oval and please please vote for us. The problem is year after year you get the same line up of Labour Party hacks, Green Party wanna be's, local identity mediocrities and a token Socialist Alliance nutter. The Age and the ABC have been running stories on the lack of accountability and hence corruptubility of local councils. Well worth a read in the light of this.

The council has no credibility in this area.

They refer to due process but when it suits them they can 'bend the rules' and quicken up the process for other developments

ASSUMING the council is correct in what they're saying, surely a development as important as this warrants some expediency??

Perhaps they see no opportunity for political 'donations' from the Bulldogs as opposed to other entities???

 

[beyondthevalley ofthedogs]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

The council has no credibility in this area.

They refer to due process but when it suits them they can 'bend the rules' and quicken up the process for other developments

Footscray Pool. Case rested.

 

[Dorval6]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Anyone live in Ironbark Ward, Maribyrnong?

Perhaps we could run our own Bulldogs candidate at the next council election and show the Mayor just how we feel

 

[barkly st.]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

^^^^^
.
barkly st.

I'm open to any type of graft and corruption. Diamond Joe Quimby of the west.

Dogs can have anything under my rule (as long as I get the number one ticket).

 

[Guido]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Come and live in the good ol' City of Maribyrnong for a while and you'll realise pretty quickly who the guilty party is.

No doubt that Maribyrnong is one of the most incompetent councils in the state, if not the country. I live in central Footscray, pay more for my council rates than I do for telephone/water/gas/electricity COMBINED, and it still takes a year to fix a pot hole on my street.

But if, as they claim, an official planning application for this section of the redevelopment was not lodged by the Bulldogs until April this year (almost 4 years after it was originally planned and the respective governments/AFL pledged funding), then surely some of the blame has to fall on our admin.

What's the most worrying about the breakdown in relationship with the council is that we lease the entire site off the muppets. When the next lease expires, they could theoretically argue that the site's value has increased five fold with the redevelopment, and adjust rents accordingly. Club has to work its arse off to patch things up in the next year or so, because the relationship looks unworkable at the moment. As much as we hate to admit it, they're a key partner of the club and we need them on side.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

What's the most worrying about the breakdown in relationship with the council is that we lease the entire site off the muppets. When the next lease expires, they could theoretically argue that the site's value has increased five fold with the redevelopment, and adjust rents accordingly. Club has to work its arse off to patch things up in the next year or so, because the relationship looks unworkable at the moment. As much as we hate to admit it, they're a key partner of the club and we need them on side.

Our lease is to 2021 (as stated in our annual reports). The club will want a new much longer lease given the $25m worth of leasehold improvements that we have secured from other parties and raised from our own members. If that's not achieved, the amortisation (depreciation) will cause a huge annual divot in our financial statements (probably about $2m per year). May be only on paper but it won't look good on our profit/loss statements.

The Council have allocated $1m in the budget for landscaping but haven't released it to us. It won't cripple us, but if they refuse to release it, the outer will continue to look like a midden. Of course they would have to answer to nearby residents and voters if they pulled that one but you never know.

 

[Guido]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Our lease is to 2021 (as stated in our annual reports).

For some unknown reason I had it stuck in my head that it was expiring soon. Knew I should have checked those before I posted.

The club will want a new much longer lease given the $25m worth of leasehold improvements that we have secured from other parties and raised from our own members.

Is it in fact 'our' asset?

I know it's been accounted for as such on the balance sheet, but given that it was funded (largely by government) on the basis of it being sold as a 'community' project, where does the true ownership lie?

If we went into administration, I don't think they'd be tearing out uni/child care centre fixtures and fittings to sell at a liquidation auction (whereas if we fully paid for the development, Westpac probably would).

If that's not achieved, the amortisation (depreciation) will cause a huge annual divot in our financial statements (probably about $2m per year).

Haven't studied accounting in 10 years, so might be totally wrong on this, but I don't think the length of the lease has a large bearing on depreciation, only the likely life of the asset is taken into account.

The Council have allocated $1m in the budget for landscaping but haven't released it to us. It won't cripple us, but if they refuse to release it, the outer will continue to look like a midden. Of course they would have to answer to nearby residents and voters if they pulled that one but you never know.

All depends on the fine print. If they're contractually obligated, they'll cough up. However if there was a stupiulation that it was contingent on their permit approval, and they want to be ***** about it, then we might be in a bit of trouble.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

The leasehold improvements are an asset of the club but the Whitten Oval (and what's on it) is Crown land that the Council has management rights over under state government legislation. We "own" the leasehold improvements as long as a lease is in place. If we sublet to other organisations we gain the rental income. The club wanted Vic Uni involved because the financial returns were considered greater than for other uses (i.e. a function centre) and other possible tenants.

Accounting is not my strong point, but I would think that even if the value of the buildings in reality depreciate much slower than the length of our lease, the key is our lease. The leasehold improvements will not be an asset in 2021 if we do not have a lease. The existing leasehold improvements look like they are amortised (which is depreciation of an intangible asset) on the basis of the end of the lease in 2021.

 

[Dorval6]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

The council can try and take it out on us but I suspect they'll be digging their own grave by taking on the Bulldogs.

This issue alone has the potential to turf the Council out on the street.
I haven't heard a single word of support for the council over the past few days in my neighbourhood.
Even those who don't even follow the Bulldogs are angry at the Council's handling of things.

Lets also not forget that their State Labor Party mates overturned the decision so that's another ally on the side of the Dogs.

 

[MelbDog]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Hi guys,

My first post for a long time but I thought it was necessary to put another spin on this!

I am a town planner here in Victoria and obviously work for a Council. Now I can appreciate your average joe blow being frustrated with Council's processes etc but I think its about time people appreciated what its like to work there! Ill tie this back into the topic in a sec.

At anyone time we have 60 odd applications for new developments, land uses etc to deal with! Councils can not turn people back we MUST TAKE EVERYTHING that comes our way! Now you take 60 files and you have 60 applicants calling you to see what stage its at, which is less time working on them! You can see where I am going here. Most of those calls are hostile because people think we are robots with no morals. Fact of the matter is we do care but there is only so much we can do! You wonder why it takes so long to get things through Council well its because people leave because they are sick of being abused by people like some of you. In one day I was blamed for a divorce, cancer and depression, and I am just 22!! You can imagine the toll this has!

Now brining this back on topic, your team lodged an applicant 2 years ago for the buildings and works for the redevelopment. They later down the track decided they wanted to add another component to it! Which is fine. Now they were told at the very begining that it would take approx 6 months (this is quick granted the size of the project!). It has been less than this! I think the dogs should take some responsibility for their actions and admit they stuffed up. They should have considered their options alot sooner then they did. They would have known the time frames but prob thought they were in a position to bully Council.

Its all well and good people to bag your Council because it so easy to do! But perhaps have a think about the way you react towards Council. If it was not for Councils you would have 4 storey unit blocks next to single storey dwellings. Yes there is alot of red tape but you get damned for to much and then damned for doing nothing. Its a thankless task and I wish some of you could come and work at Council for a couple of weeks to see what its really like! I think your opinions would be significantly different, well I would hope so anyway!

Sorry if I have rambled but I am sick of Councils getting the wrap they do they might not get it right all the time but nor does everyone else, including the bulldogs!!

 

[Johnno_6]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Hi guys,

My first post for a long time but I thought it was necessary to put another spin on this!

I am a town planner here in Victoria and obviously work for a Council. Now I can appreciate your average joe blow being frustrated with Council's processes etc but I think its about time people appreciated what its like to work there! Ill tie this back into the topic in a sec.

At anyone time we have 60 odd applications for new developments, land uses etc to deal with! Councils can not turn people back we MUST TAKE EVERYTHING that comes our way! Now you take 60 files and you have 60 applicants calling you to see what stage its at, which is less time working on them! You can see where I am going here. Most of those calls are hostile because people think we are robots with no morals. Fact of the matter is we do care but there is only so much we can do! You wonder why it takes so long to get things through Council well its because people leave because they are sick of being abused by people like some of you. In one day I was blamed for a divorce, cancer and depression, and I am just 22!! You can imagine the toll this has!


Now brining this back on topic, your team lodged an applicant 2 years ago for the buildings and works for the redevelopment. They later down the track decided they wanted to add another component to it! Which is fine. Now they were told at the very begining that it would take approx 6 months (this is quick granted the size of the project!). It has been less than this! I think the dogs should take some responsibility for their actions and admit they stuffed up. They should have considered their options alot sooner then they did. They would have known the time frames but prob thought they were in a position to bully Council.

Its all well and good people to bag your Council because it so easy to do! But perhaps have a think about the way you react towards Council. If it was not for Councils you would have 4 storey unit blocks next to single storey dwellings. Yes there is alot of red tape but you get damned for to much and then damned for doing nothing. Its a thankless task and I wish some of you could come and work at Council for a couple of weeks to see what its really like! I think your opinions would be significantly different, well I would hope so anyway!

Sorry if I have rambled but I am sick of Councils getting the wrap they do they might not get it right all the time but nor does everyone else, including the bulldogs!!

Council got it wrong trying to bully the Bulldogs. Bulldogs got it right getting the State Government to override the stupid Council.
The days are truly numbered for many of those on the Maribryrnong Council.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Hi guys,

My first post for a long time but I thought it was necessary to put another spin on this!

I am a town planner here in Victoria and obviously work for a Council. Now I can appreciate your average joe blow being frustrated with Council's processes etc but I think its about time people appreciated what its like to work there! Ill tie this back into the topic in a sec.

At anyone time we have 60 odd applications for new developments, land uses etc to deal with! Councils can not turn people back we MUST TAKE EVERYTHING that comes our way! Now you take 60 files and you have 60 applicants calling you to see what stage its at, which is less time working on them! You can see where I am going here. Most of those calls are hostile because people think we are robots with no morals. Fact of the matter is we do care but there is only so much we can do! You wonder why it takes so long to get things through Council well its because people leave because they are sick of being abused by people like some of you. In one day I was blamed for a divorce, cancer and depression, and I am just 22!! You can imagine the toll this has!

Now brining this back on topic, your team lodged an applicant 2 years ago for the buildings and works for the redevelopment. They later down the track decided they wanted to add another component to it! Which is fine. Now they were told at the very begining that it would take approx 6 months (this is quick granted the size of the project!). It has been less than this! I think the dogs should take some responsibility for their actions and admit they stuffed up. They should have considered their options alot sooner then they did. They would have known the time frames but prob thought they were in a position to bully Council.

Its all well and good people to bag your Council because it so easy to do! But perhaps have a think about the way you react towards Council. If it was not for Councils you would have 4 storey unit blocks next to single storey dwellings. Yes there is alot of red tape but you get damned for to much and then damned for doing nothing. Its a thankless task and I wish some of you could come and work at Council for a couple of weeks to see what its really like! I think your opinions would be significantly different, well I would hope so anyway!

Sorry if I have rambled but I am sick of Councils getting the wrap they do they might not get it right all the time but nor does everyone else, including the bulldogs!!

Thanks for the post Melbdog. It was good to hear an opinion from a council point of view

The thing I cannot get my head around, is given the magnitude and importance of the project, how last weeks events could have happened. I mean, I don't know the full facts so am not sure whether the council or club is to blame, probably a combination of both.

But I am still unsure why the application was lodged in April if it takes 6 months to go through the process? Surely both parties would have been in communication before this to ensure such applications were lodged in a timely manner?

I am not blaming anyone for this as I don't know the full story, but for last weeks to have unfolded for such a vital project has got me completely baffled.

 

[Johnno_6]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Thanks for the post Melbdog. It was good to hear an opinion from a council point of view

The thing I cannot get my head around, is given the magnitude and importance of the project, how last weeks events could have happened. I mean, I don't know the full facts so am not sure whether the council or club is to blame, probably a combination of both.

But I am still unsure why the application was lodged in April if it takes 6 months to go through the process? Surely both parties would have been in communication before this to ensure such applications were lodged in a timely manner?

I am not blaming anyone for this as I don't know the full story, but for last weeks to have unfolded for such a vital project has got me completely baffled.

There's nothing to be baffled about. The Bulldogs had been negotiating with the Council for at least 18 months to get Council approval of a vital planning permit and the Council kept procrastinating, trying to gain more control and ownership of the project, which is over half way completed, using the furphy of the so-called unsuitability of Victoria University learning facility in the refurbished John Gent stand. Not enough car parking spaces? Yeah nice one! They knew that by freezing the $8million Federal money grant they could force the Bulldogs hand by threatening them financially, by stalling the project.
It was a case of the Council trying to flex its muscles wanting to gain complete control over the whole project and ended with its complete humiliation at the hands of the State Government.
Thank goodness the State Government now has control over a $26m project and not not some tin pot Council, with delusions of grandeur.
David Smorgan, Cam Rose, Peter Gordon and the Brumby Government have taught the Maribyrnong Council a vital lesson in humility and the consequences of misguided brinkmanship.

 

[MelbDog]

Re: EXCLUSIVE: THE State Government has saved the Western Bulldogs from imminent financial disaster(

Mate carparking issues are massive!! There is a set amount of car parking one must provide. Each use has a different requirement and each reduction in this requirement must be advertised, as per STATE planning policy! It is the state government that drafts the policy that LOCAL councils must run with! We are the delegates of their policies. Now whether or not these policies are useful and warrented or not, is not the questions here as it is what any developer has to deal with. The dogs management would of known this and I think it is very nieve of you to think that this is solely the Councils fault! I think you should appreciate that sometimes your side is going to stuff things up big deal, and move on yeah? But I just think it is totally unfair for people to keep abusing councils when they have no idea about the processes and how hard it is to work there! Because we have to deal with ignorant people like you everyday who think they know more then they do! Let us do our job and we will let you do yours yeah?!

Planning is a frustrating process that requires alot of time and effort Its not a matter of ticking boxes and stamping plans its not that simple and nor should it! Now bigger projects like the redevelopment do get priority over smaller ones however we cant just down tools and focus on one development I mean you have to be realistic here! Sorry for rambaling but it just makes me mad when people take the easy option to bag Council when there are two sides to each story!