Freo looking to trade in.

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

Say what?

Michael Hurley has played half his games at CHB...

Not quite half his games, maybe a third ... while Clark has been playing more than half his games in the ruck.

Next.

 

[Clay Davis]

If Pav kicks 60-70, and Clark, Mayne, and Ballantyne kicked 35-40 each, then you could book your plane tickets for finals action.

Sounds like the crap said before the Tarrant trade. How'd that pan out?

 

[Clay Davis]

Not quite half his games, maybe a third ... while Clark has been playing more than half his games in the ruck.

Next.

Wow, this is utter shit.

Clark's had five more games than Zac Clarke and half the hitouts. He's had 10 more games than Griffin and well over half the hitouts.

More than half his games in the ruck. Keep going, Doc, you're doing great.

 

[Lach72]

Not quite half his games, maybe a third ... while Clark has been playing more than half his games in the ruck.

Next.

Think you'll find Leuenberger has being doing most of the rucking...and I would be VERY surprised if Hurley has played only a third down back, with Pears being injured so much. Only since Ryder is out of the ruck has he pushed forward more.

I think Mayne has had a rubbish year. He's been as effective as Clark.

Mitch may go alright...I don't think he's worth first round picks and 500k per year

 

[free at last]

Forget hypothetically. Try Realistically. Sandi has never kicked 20 in a season has he? Who knows what Clarke might do. He's as raw as steak tartare.

40+ goals a year usually puts you in the top 10-15 goalkickers in the AFL.

If Pav kicks 60-70, and Clark, Mayne, and Ballantyne kicked 35-40 each, then you could book your plane tickets for finals action.

The lions will be asking for our 1st pick at minimum, for us to secure a player that hasn't shown very little at the need we supposedly ,desperately require. Your all for that?

 

[strobe00]

Can someone explain to me:

a) how O'meara will help us in 2012 when we need to be going flat out while Pav, Sandi, McPharlin et al have some currency.

Absolutely no help whatsoever. However, the world isn't likely to end in 2013. I don't know if we'll be able to nail a premiership next year, so I'm happy for some selections to be made with a longer view in mind. If we go hell for leather topping up for a tilt in the next two seasons and miss, we'll have rooted future seasons.

b) the likely chances of finding a key forward in the draft or anywhere else who would kick the 30 odd goals a year Mitch Clark would kick next year.

We need KPFs next year, true. But to get Clark we may have to lose a couple of guys that COULD be 10 year players, and one or both of them could be a KP.

If Kep had played all season he'd have kicked the 30 goals you're talking about. That's assuming that we can't find anyone that could do it in this draft (which could well be a fair point). But give them until 2013, maybe they could.

c) why Brad Scott said on Insider you need 4 ruckman on your list but most of you reckon 3 is 1 too many.

We've got 3 already. Bringing Clark in would bring us to 4 potential first choice rucks. With 3 rucks ahead of him, Griffin will want to leave for a first ruck spot. If we lose Griffin in this trading period then I can understand that. I reckon we should be looking to secure a VFL/SANFL/WAFL based ruck with a late draft or rookie pick to give us a fourth for coverage though.

d) how 15 years of our trades is any worse than most other clubs.

Mostly because of some stupid decisions to trade away high picks for average players at the start, mostly because of pressure to be competitive from the start. Then the Croad and Tarrant trades more recently. And the Headland, Carr and Bell trades also. In the latter three we've traded away high draft picks to grab WA born players with great currency at other clubs, just because they were available. And paid overs for it. Exactly like we're going to with Clark if we manage to get a deal through. Belly ended up doing pretty well, but the rest did very little, except for the last year and a half that we got out of Taz. That's a pretty crappy success rate for what the draft picks we traded have ended up doing.

Micth Clark has kicked the same number of goals as Michael Hurley from the same number of games. Please explain.

Michael Hurley is a key position player, and according to the hype is going to be a very, very good KPP into the future. He's also been injured a bit this year, and played a bit in the back line as well.

Dunno, I haven't seen heaps from him yet but the potential is there. Mitch Clark is a ruckman/KPF. I know who I'd rather have at the club. If we had the guts to let Clark slip, we might be able to pick up someone like Hurley this year or next that is a genuine KP, not a ruckman that we want to play as a KP.

Waffle above.

 

[theGav56]

It's rare that clubs can trade for regular players and end up better off.

Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood, St Kilda and Sydney seem to have done ok doing it???

Griffen's probably the best trade bait we've got (if he wants to go), but I doubt we're going to get a walk up best 22 starter.

And we traded for Griffin and are better off too.

 

[The Night Shift]

Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood, St Kilda and Sydney seem to have done ok doing it???

But we've almost always been shit at it.

And we traded for Griffin and are better off too.

Whom many seem to want to trade at the drop of a hat it seems.


How did a BF rumour about Griffin being traded to Power morph into fact?

 

[creamygoodness]

So we had a couple of fail trades under an administration who were more concerned with selling tickets and memberships than having sustained success, and now we should never consider trades again? Some of you guys are so infuriatingly narrow-minded.

Stop looking at draft picks as numbers and look at them as the potential players who will be available there. If there is likely only going to be a Jayden Pitt calibre player at our pick then flip it for Clark, if there's a gem in the rough like Fyfe then keep it. It's a shitty draft apparently so shop the pick around and see what we can get. Clark is a great talent who hasn't quite broken out yet, if he does, pick 14 or whatever for him will look like an absolute steal.

 

[valkorum]

How did a BF rumour about Griffin being traded to Power morph into fact?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...date-mitch-clark/story-e6frg7mf-1226127655461

While Clark will be a welcome addition to a struggling forward structure, the Dockers appear likely to lose back-up ruckman Jonathon Griffin to Port Adelaide, and possibly the out-of-contract Rhys Palmer to GWS.

 

[E Shed]

Stop looking at draft picks as numbers and look at them as the potential players who will be available there. If there is likely only going to be a Jayden Pitt calibre player at our pick then flip it for Clark, if there's a gem in the rough like Fyfe then keep it. It's a shitty draft apparently so shop the pick around and see what we can get. Clark is a great talent who hasn't quite broken out yet, if he does, pick 14 or whatever for him will look like an absolute steal.

Things are unfortunately never that simple. If ANY of the scouts from the other clubs knew how good Fyfe was going to be it's unlikely he would have lasted till pick 20. AND the same judges that took Fyfe rated Pitt as the best player available at out pick & better than Darling. Many of us here rate him very highly and believe he will be an excellent AFL player for years to come.

 

[creamygoodness]

The recruiters would have a good idea you'd hope of what calibre of prospects are going to available at our pick.

For the record, I don't mind Pitt and I think he could be a handy HBF like Xavier Ellis maybe, but if it's a choice between him and Clark, I take Clark every day.

 

[E Shed]

The recruiters would have a good idea you'd hope of what calibre of prospects are going to available at our pick.

For the record, I don't mind Pitt and I think he could be a handy HBF like Xavier Ellis maybe, but if it's a choice between him and Clark, I take Clark every day.

which is why the Lions will want more than that (pick) for him.

 

[creamygoodness]

Well they might not have much choice in the matter considering he's out of contract

 

[strobe00]

So we had a couple of fail trades under an administration who were more concerned with selling tickets and memberships than having sustained success, and now we should never consider trades again? Some of you guys are so infuriatingly narrow-minded.

Stop looking at draft picks as numbers and look at them as the potential players who will be available there. If there is likely only going to be a Jayden Pitt calibre player at our pick then flip it for Clark, if there's a gem in the rough like Fyfe then keep it. It's a shitty draft apparently so shop the pick around and see what we can get. Clark is a great talent who hasn't quite broken out yet, if he does, pick 14 or whatever for him will look like an absolute steal.

No problem with trading as long as we aren't paying too much, and as long as we are filling a need with the right player. Happy to trade Leon in for a third round pick or later.

If all we had to give up to get Clark was pick 14 this year, then I'd be all for it. Abso-friggin lutely.

But Brisbane won't let him go for that. They'll want our Palmer compo pick as well, and that may lose us a talented kid (deep draft next year) that could fill an important spot on the team for the next 10 years. That'd be paying overs for a guy that we don't need. Clark is an upgrade on Kep.

The kicker is if we lose Griff to Port. If we do, then I can understand us going after Clark, as he'll become an option as a 3rd string ruck, that also partly addresses our KPF issue.

We need to look at who pick 14 (or so) this year can snare us, and who next year's compo pick can snare us, and what they'll mean to the team going forward vs. Clark. Brissie won't give him away for just pick 14 I don't reckon.

 

[bigpav]

We need a key forward, a back pocket and a gun mid.

The media has stated we are going after Clark
The media has stated Griff wants out possibly to port
And we all know Freo will be going after Jaeger

So how do we get Clark, a back pocket and a gun mid (Jaeger)

The lions will in the end have to accept what we are offering for clark as he is out of contract this year, so play this trade down to the wire. My guess, pick 14 will do it, and thats pretty fair both ways imo. There is our key forward.

Back pocket, well what can we trade Griff for? If its Port he wants to go to, is there a back pocket on their list thats any good and would equal a straight trade? Or a three way trade with the pies to get neon leon, or another club?

Jaeger? well we need to go hell for leather for this kid, he could be anything. So in this situation we wouldn't have pick 14, will most likely have a compo pick and 2nd and 3rd rounder. GWS won't want picks for this year, maybe the compo pick + player(s). So imo, compo pick + ibbo might get it done.

 

[theGav56]

So how do we get Clark, a back pocket and a gun mid (Jaeger)

The lions will in the end have to accept what we are offering for clark as he is out of contract this year, so play this trade down to the wire. My guess, pick 14 will do it, and thats pretty fair both ways imo. There is our key forward.

Back pocket, well what can we trade Griff for? If its Port he wants to go to, is there a back pocket on their list thats any good and would equal a straight trade? Or a three way trade with the pies to get neon leon, or another club?

Jaeger? well we need to go hell for leather for this kid, he could be anything. So in this situation we wouldn't have pick 14, will most likely have a compo pick and 2nd and 3rd rounder. GWS won't want picks for this year, maybe the compo pick + player(s). So imo, compo pick + ibbo might get it done.

Would be very happy with pick 14 for Clark.

Griffin for Surjan or Pearce. Not saying they are equal trades but they seem the possibles. I actually can't see the Port trade happening. Griffin in a deal that gets Leon Davis, but would be eying him for PSD.

The unlikely Jaeger trade needs one of our better players in the deal, but in an alternative universe we get him for Palmer compo + MJ. I have him as less of a need than you do, but want him more than the other 2 positions because of his class.

 

[Rob]

Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood, St Kilda and Sydney seem to have done ok doing it???

I'm probably missing someone, but of those clubs recent trades in I can only think of Burgoyne and Tarrant as top players that are walk up best 22. Burgoyne they paid dearly for it (2 first round picks, so it's even arguable whether it's been successful), and with Tarrant they essentially rigged it so we'd have to give him away for peanuts. Luke Ball they did rig it.

Sydney have been very successful with hacks from other clubs, Mumford is the most recent example, who struggled with Geelong. Geelong and St Kilda i'm not sure who you're talking about? Mooney? Peake? Dawson? None were close to regulars in their departing club.

And we traded for Griffin and are better off too.

He was barely getting a game with Adelaide and wanted to come home. We paid virtually nothing for him. Big difference between him and a regular.

I can just see us getting bent over for Clark. Or Davis for that matter. We need to do what Collingwood do - **** the rules and **** every other club.

 

[creamygoodness]

Hawthorn: Gibson, Burgoyne, Hale (all best 22) Burgoyne was an AA before the trade and cost a couple of first rounders.

Sydney: Mumford, Kennedy, Mcglynn, Mattner, Seaby, Shaw, Everitt, Bradshaw, Spangher (arguably all best 22 when fit bar Spangher and maybe Everitt) Plus Barry Hall, their best player for the last decade, they traded for from the Saints.

Collingwood: Jolly, Krakouer (traded by GC), Tarrant, Cam Wood (all best 22 bar Wood probably) I left out the delisted players they've re-drafted like Ball and Brown. Jolly and Wood both cost first rounders.

Geelong: Ottens and Mooney (both AA and premiership players) I'm sure there were a few others like Harley during their premiership run but I forget. Ottens was an AA before going and cost a couple of first round picks.

St Kilda: Gram, Schneider, Gardiner, Gamble, Ray, Dempster, Peake, Polo. At least half would be best 22, all picked cheap and quality role players.

Just went through all their playing lists. These guys were all traded, there were a few guys who were delisted and re-drafted who I left out. None of them seem scared to pull the trigger when the trade is right.

Trading's not so scary now is it!

 

[longsuffreosupp]

I think trading is fine unless you don't give up too much - in terms of picks, salary cap, and the dynamics of your team structure/squad.

People are going to get worried when mentioning trading because of what CC did. In reality it got us one off a grand final, but giving away 3 picks for 1 player is crazy because we were then left with an age gap of no decent players.

Even including the Croad trade, I would've given CC a tick if he had've stopped after the 2001 trades. We had a good nucleus then that could've be filled with decent enough players to get us in more than 2 finals series over that period.

 

[The Night Shift]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...date-mitch-clark/story-e6frg7mf-1226127655461

The media make up bullshit all the time. There was even a BF mainboard blog article about it earlier in the year. Some bored poster here made up trade rumours that eventually made it into the Melbourne media to see if it would happen.

Hawthorn: Gibson, Burgoyne, Hale (all best 22) Burgoyne was an AA before the trade and cost a couple of first rounders.

Sydney: Mumford, Kennedy, Mcglynn, Mattner, Seaby, Shaw, Everitt, Bradshaw, Spangher (arguably all best 22 when fit bar Spangher and maybe Everitt) Plus Barry Hall, their best player for the last decade, they traded for from the Saints.

Collingwood: Jolly, Krakouer (traded by GC), Tarrant, Cam Wood (all best 22 bar Wood probably) I left out the delisted players they've re-drafted like Ball and Brown. Jolly and Wood both cost first rounders.

Geelong: Ottens and Mooney (both AA and premiership players) I'm sure there were a few others like Harley during their premiership run but I forget. Ottens was an AA before going and cost a couple of first round picks.

St Kilda: Gram, Schneider, Gardiner, Gamble, Ray, Dempster, Peake, Polo. At least half would be best 22, all picked cheap and quality role players.

Just went through all their playing lists. These guys were all traded, there were a few guys who were delisted and re-drafted who I left out. None of them seem scared to pull the trigger when the trade is right.

Trading's not so scary now is it!

Still dosen't change the fact that FFC are shit at it... and the fact that some here are willing to trade way over to get just one player seems like some posters never learn.

Once bitten twice shy.

The recruiters will do whatever they do no matter what we all ramble on about in here anyways.

If we had a less complicated trade system things would certainly be better.

 

[malpaso]

Our past football administrations were shit at it. Doesn't mean the current one will be. Their track record so far is pretty good.

Are we never going to trade again because of our past? Ridiculous.

Griffin has far more currency than he did last year when we gave up pick 61, he'd at least be in the 30-40 range. If not that then a decent player swap.

 

[malpaso]

If we had a less complicated trade system things would certainly be better.

Yeah, totally.

Bizarre system in the AFL.

 

[Moo]

Our past football administrations were shit at it. Doesn't mean the current one will be. Their track record so far is pretty good.

Are we never going to trade again because of our past? Ridiculous.

Griffin has far more currency than he did last year when we gave up pick 61, he'd at least be in the 30-40 range. If not that then a decent player swap.

...and the truth will set you free.

The current admin have been tough at the trade table and very good at judging talent in the drafts....bit early for the tears and fears.



M

 

[Ysaye]

...and the truth will set you free.

The current admin have been tough at the trade table and very good at judging talent in the drafts....bit early for the tears and fears.



M

Agreed Moo - trading / redrafting for Bradley, Anthony and Griffen was very astute and got them for good prices.