No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #12 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[Bletch]

You need to watch 12 angry men too...

• This isn't a court of law, and Clarkson & Fagan have not been charged with a crime.
• The Presumption of Innocence is a legal principle in the courts of criminal law. It does not apply here.
• There are other legal avenues open to the pair if they feel their reputation has been unfairly maligned (libel/slander).
• The AFL and the clubs involved have a reputation to maintain, and a responsibility to ensure a safe work environment.
• It is proper for an investigation to be conducted into the claims. It's worth noting the burden of proof will not be the same as in a criminal law case.
• In the meantime, the AFL/clubs have to weigh the responsibilities they have to players, and the seriousness of these claims, against the due process of the investigation, and the rights of the accused to continue in their employment.
• None of this prevents comments/discussion and the merits or otherwise of the accusations here or in the general community (libel/slander aside).
• And before you ask, yes, I've seen 12 Angry Men - I've even been in a stage production of it. But bear in mind, if that case was reality, it would have resulted in a mistrial (for the same reasons as the prominent case in yesterday's news). Also, it primarily concerns "reasonable doubt" - again a principle of criminal law that does not apply to either a civil case, or an AFL investigation.
• I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

• This isn't a court of law, and Clarkson & Fagan have not been charged with a crime.
• The Presumption of Innocence is a legal principle in the courts of criminal law. It does not apply here.
• There are other legal avenues open to the pair if they feel their reputation has been unfairly maligned (libel/slander).
• The AFL and the clubs involved have a reputation to maintain, and a responsibility to ensure a safe work environment.
• It is proper for an investigation to be conducted into the claims. It's worth noting the burden of proof will not be the same as in a criminal law case.
• In the meantime, the AFL/clubs have to weigh the responsibilities they have to players, and the seriousness of these claims, against the due process of the investigation, and the rights of the accused to continue in their employment.
• None of this prevents comments/discussion and the merits or otherwise of the accusations here or in the general community (libel/slander aside).
• And before you ask, yes, I've seen 12 Angry Men - I've even been in a stage production of it. But bear in mind, if that case was reality, it would have resulted in a mistrial (for the same reasons as the prominent case in yesterday's news). Also, it primarily concerns "reasonable doubt" - again a principle of criminal law that does not apply to either a civil case, or an AFL investigation.
• I'm not a lawyer.

I'm not saying to watch 12 Angry Men for the sake of the technicalities... rather the moral of the story...

You had a group of people willing to accuse someone of something they didn't do simply because they jumped to conclusions... which is what is happening here...

as for these points:

• The AFL and the clubs involved have a reputation to maintain, and a responsibility to ensure a safe work environment.
  • ok, so how does wanting Clarko and Fagan to be punished without even being open to hearing what they have to say help maintain that reputation?

• It is proper for an investigation to be conducted into the claims. It's worth noting the burden of proof will not be the same as in a criminal law case.
  • ok, so how does wanting Clarko and Fagan to be punished without even being open to hearing what they have to say comply with wanting a proper investigation?

• In the meantime, the AFL/clubs have to weigh the responsibilities they have to players, and the seriousness of these claims, against the due process of the investigation, and the rights of the accused to continue in their employment.
  • ok, so how does wanting Clarko and Fagan to be punished without even being open to hearing what they have to say help the AFL/clubs show that responsibility?

• None of this prevents comments/discussion and the merits or otherwise of the accusations here or in the general community (libel/slander aside).
  • ok, so how does wanting Clarko and Fagan to be punished without even being open to hearing what they have to say add merit to the discussion?

I'd say it's a fair assumption that most on here don't know Clarko personally... What could he have possibly done to generate so much hatred towards him that people want to see him punished so badly that they are not even open to let him put his case forward and defend himself from being accused of committing awful acts?

 

[Revenant1965]

There is a discussion in the draft thread re sub, and what the future may hold. Will things remain as they are, will 'medi-sub' become a 'tactical-sub' who can be replaced any time, or will it be a 5 player bench? Personally, I'd say 5 (or even 6) player bench.

But I am wondering about the number of interchange rotations. Could it be increased a little, or should it be decreased? My mind says limit even further so interchange becomes more tactical, and a side is less disadvantaged if a player is injured earlier in a game. But I am really not sure... I'd appreciate some insights in number of players on bench versus number of interchanges...

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Apparently Geelong are in the box seat to sign Conor McKenna due to some Horse Racing links at the GFC.

 

[Arr0w]

I hope the AFL, just go with 5 on the bench, piss the sub off

 

[thylacine60]

"What?"

 

[Bluella]

"What?"

Aw I liked Nicky G

 

[Dramoth]

Gill's Club

Any club but the club that delisted his useless arse is Gill's club.

 

[Dramoth]

If you were a St Kilda supporter, you would have been raised into V/AFL with a loser mentality. So you’d love Lyon back at the club.

My St Kilda supporting Uncle has actually seen the Aints win a grand final. His St Kilda supporting son has never seen them win a GF.

 

[thylacine60]

Aw I liked Nicky G

Same actually.

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Aw I liked Nicky G

Me too. Still do. Bloody nice fella.

 

[TD2010]

So you telling me there actually no negative reaction.
That amazing if true.

Reminds me of my positivity when Malthouse. I shudder just thinking about that now

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[footyfan1978]

Reminds me of my positivity when Malthouse. I shudder just thinking about that now

You should.
I still shake my head how many of you were into it.
It was complete and utter madness.

 

[Accidental genius]

You should.
I still shake my head how many of you were into it.
It was complete and utter madness.

Agree. So many seemed to think he was going to be our saviour.

 

[thylacine60]

Agree. So many seemed to think he was going to be our saviour.

sticks, pratt, pagan, malthouse, sos, 1, 3, 4, 5, 8, priority picks, every player ever from another club - that's 12 examples of saviours so only room left for the big dog

 

[Accidental genius]

sticks, pratt, pagan, malthouse, sos, 1, 3, 4, 5, 8, priority picks, every player ever from another club - that's 12 examples of saviours so only room left for the big dog

Vossy our saviour and we will like it!

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

sticks, pratt, pagan, malthouse, sos, 1, 3, 4, 5, 8, priority picks, every player ever from another club - that's 12 examples of saviours so only room left for the big dog

Don’t think Juddy’s interested in coaching Thy. Reckon we stick with Vossy for now

 

[thylacine60]

‘A man who brought so much cheer’: Swans mourn passing of iconic fan

Invited by then-coach Ron Barassi to run water at training for the Swans in the early 1990s, Kenny Williams never really left, weaving himself into the club’s fabric.

www.theage.com.au

 

[footyfan1978]

R.I.P. Kenny
Absolute treasure of a man

 

[tarczonandjane]

I used to watch tv footage of Kenny barracking for the Swans at the SCG in that 1990-1995 period, and I’d think to myself, why?

Good on him for sticking fat with a historically underperforming team and being rewarded with premierships and grand finals! He’s what footy should be about (the fans)

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

R.I.P. Kenny
Absolute treasure of a man

Yep, he had been in failing health for a while, and was one of the main reasons I wanted the Swans to win the flag.

He will be missed, not just by Swans fans but all footy fans in general.

He once got under Tony Lockett's skin (when he was a Saint) and tried to basically decapitate him with one of his infamous barrell torp specials Plugger often unleashed on heckling opposition cheer squads.

They made peace when Plugger became a Swan and had a real tight bond.

93 is a great innings.

Loyalty, passion, unwavering commitment to his beloved Swans (those Sydney teams in tbe early 90s were really bad, worse than us during our bleak years and yes Norf in the last 2 years) but still Kenny was always there at the SCG, week in, week out, unconditionally.

It's comforting to know he got to enjoy a couple of premierships late in his life.

 

[thylacine60]

I used to watch tv footage of Kenny barracking for the Swans at the SCG in that 1990-1995 period, and I’d think to myself, why?

Good on him for sticking fat with a historically underperforming team and being rewarded with premierships and grand finals! He’s what footy should be about (the fans)

first laid eyes on him going nuts behind the swans goals on those televised sunday games......

 

[Wickzki]

You should.
I still shake my head how many of you were into it.
It was complete and utter madness.

I think many of us bought it as it was our only real choice.

If you were glass half full then you thought Mick could do what Pagan could not

If you were glass half empty then stiff shit. You either stuck fat with the club or gave up. For many of us with a lifetime of blood, sweat, tears and tradition that just wasn't an option so you expected the worst and accepted the inevitable.

 

[thylacine60]

Collingwood part ways with CEO, Warner Music boss withdraws board candidacy

Collingwood CEO Mark Anderson has quit the club after nearly five years at the helm of the powerful AFL club, while the president of Warner Music Australasia Dan Rosen has withdrawn his candidacy for the Pies board.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Wickzki]

Collingwood part ways with CEO, Warner Music boss withdraws board candidacy

Collingwood CEO Mark Anderson has quit the club after nearly five years at the helm of the powerful AFL club, while the president of Warner Music Australasia Dan Rosen has withdrawn his candidacy for the Pies board.

www.theage.com.au

Jeez. I know that the victim's families and Simone Biles urged people not to dress up as Jeffrey Dahmer for Halloween but I didn't expect that Anderson would resign as CEO of their football club over it.

No, IAS, I do wonder what's going on at the Pies. For a CEO to quit and then toss their hat in the ring at one of their two most rival clubs is a warning that not everything may be as rosy as it appeared this year.