Rumour GFC 2023 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt1

[cats_09]

As we are now getting into the season and we are starting to get a bit more serious with discussion, seems a suitable time to post the following as it's repeatedly shown itself to be a value reference tool in trade & draft discussion

And as per normal, thanks to Lore for putting this together - always a fantastic reference tool



And yes this post is now stickied - makes it easy to keep track of (can easily reverse this though if needed)

 

[iameviljez]

If Esava stays or not I’d love to see Kolo plays his football at another club. It won’t happen as coaches seem to love him. I know he can play well as a shut down defender but his turnovers mitigate any positives he has on field.

And who would you have play on the opposition’s second tall?

 

[iameviljez]

We could make an argument that we were silly to invest an early pick in Conway. I want talent more than role... I think its silly to seperate high end talent by category .. all I what the club to do is assess the talent and pick who they think is the best. Whether its inside outside tall or short.

as we have currently a r1 pick and nothing ... and I mentioned ..if he is there late... if he suddenly moved to 20's or 30's he probably falls outside of our ability to draft him


He is a Blitz type that will take time to develop.

Bet the Dogs aren’t regretting taking English at a very similar pick.

But ruckman are a bit unique in that you can only play one genuine ruckman in each side. If there is genuine belief that Conway is good enough, taking another first-round ruckman is burning a pick.

 

[BORIS332]

If Esava stays or not I’d love to see Kolo plays his football at another club. It won’t happen as coaches seem to love him. I know he can play well as a shut down defender but his turnovers mitigate any positives he has on field.

Kolo averages 1.6 turnovers per game. That ranks him 28th out of 33 Cats this year.



And he has the second fewest turnovers per disposal:

 

[iameviljez]

D

Kolo averages 1.6 turnovers per game. That ranks him 28th out of 33 Cats this year.

View attachment 1770753

And he has the second fewest turnovers per disposal:

View attachment 1770756

Don’t let your facts get in the way of our hatred!

 

[CatToTheFuture]

All those players you mentioned have a variety of strings to their bows as pressure players or involvement in general play up the field. Some of those names are even hybrid midfielders.

The old fashioned traditional medium forward who leads up and does nothing but shoot for goal is a dead commodity. It is why Daniel menzel got delisted after kicking 40 goals in a season.

It is not good enough to just be a medium or small who kicks a few goals these days. It’s all about overall team structure and dynamics, not individuality.

Some players can kick 2-3 goals but cost their team massively with a lack of involvement in other aspects of the game and get dropped for it.

I think you're right about 1 dimensional medium forwards but wrong that Ollie Henry will be a 40 goal lead up forward and nothing else.

Ollie is 19th in the league for goals kicked and is 21 years old. His tally this year, with 3 games left, would have been Menzels second best season ever and he will run close to beating menzels best in what is pretty much his first full year of footy. He should also beat Menzels disposal tally and has already beaten his tackle numbers and contested possession count. He is also being put onto the wing, at centre bounces, and in the backline within games to give him learning opportunity.

Again, this is a kid in his first full season with acres of upside ahead of him outperforming a 27 year old who had peaked due to his physical limitations.

I think not seeing the potential in Ollie Henry is like not being able to see the forests past the trees

 

[iameviljez]

He really isn't. Far too slow.

Menegola, Corey, Selwood - none of those are exactly turf scorching players. Far more important for an outside mid these days is endurance.

Anyway, over time, Knevitt will become a clearance player I suspect.

 

[Vdubs]

Kolodjashnij has played his best football for us as a KPD, definitely not on the wing where next year we'll hopefully see Holmes focused in that role, and I'd like to see Miers tried there with what he's shown this year

Atkins was played in defence for a period but found his place in the guts - I know he's something of limited footballer, but the best & most settled he's look is in the guts. He also offers us a player defensive mindset at stoppages which is needed

C. Guthrie is a 2 time Carji winning mid who've we've missed in there this year - he's straight back there next year

J. Henry - I know he has played in both defence & occasionally up forward with the odd time in the ruck, but I don't see the benifit to him or the team to not play him in a settled role and treat him as a utility plug & play option. He's a B&F runner up playing as a KPD, this year he's ranked 5th amongst all KPDs for lowest percentage of 1-vs-1 contests lost and just looks to make our defence better

Henry seems to get a bit of the old Blicavs treatment where they believe he can play anywhere so they'll shift him around without settling him into a role - rather find the best position for the player and settle them in that role. Make moves in game when needed, but treating them as utilities without a defined role isn't helpful to player or team

Your opinion, not that of the MC. Versatility, adaptability for players does help them and the team. No player remains in a lock down isolated position apart from perhaps Kolo, SDK. A player's position is not the same as his role, and players are happy to be used where the coach and team needs them.
There are many examples of players directly helping team and mates by being adaptable and versatile, CGuthrie, Atkins, Blicavs, JHenry, Duncan, Tuohy in our current team, Mackie, Milburn, Taylor, Bartel, Mooney from our 07-11

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Bet the Dogs aren’t regretting taking English at a very similar pick.

But ruckman are a bit unique in that you can only play one genuine ruckman in each side. If there is genuine belief that Conway is good enough, taking another first-round ruckman is burning a pick.

We won't regret taking Conway. But if the dogs selected English and then went and selected Luke Jackson as well they might end up wondering why they burnt the pick

 

[iameviljez]

Ollie is 19th in the league for goals kicked and is 21 years old. His tally this year, with 3 games left, would have been Menzels second best season ever and he will run close to beating menzels best in what is pretty much his first full year of footy. He should also beat Menzels disposal tally and has already beaten his tackle numbers and contested possession count.

The other difference being that in his last 2 years at Geelong, Menzel did little other than play deep and try to get a one-on-one with his opponent. Henry isn't playing like that; he's not sitting as deep as Menzel, not given that we already have two other excellent marking targets up forward.

g_c26 is making Henry sound a bit like Jack Anthony, Tory Dickson, Kent Kingsley or post-injury Menzel, and he's pretty clearly not any of those.

 

[iameviljez]

Your opinion, not that of the MC. Versatility, adaptability for players does help them and the team. No player remains in a lock down isolated position apart from perhaps Kolo, SDK

I kind of agree, kind of don't. Your best six or so players generally don't change in their role, but the rest need to be adaptable.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Your opinion, not that of the MC. Versatility, adaptability for players does help them and the team. No player remains in a lock down isolated position apart from perhaps Kolo, SDK. A player's position is not the same as his role, and players are happy to be used where the coach and team needs them.
There are many examples of players directly helping team and mates by being adaptable and versatile, CGuthrie, Atkins, Blicavs, JHenry, Duncan, Tuohy in our current team, Mackie, Milburn, Taylor, Bartel, Mooney from our 07-11

Kolo has been used as a KPD last 2 seasons barring the games where all 3 of him, Sav and SDK have played. In those games he was used as a scapegoat for a system that just played too many key backs.

So the MC agree Kolo is a kpd also. It's just that he's also the shortest, quickest, andost experienced so he gets the Willie Riolis and therefore the title of whipping boy because he's in a position he can't play anymore

 

[CatToTheFuture]

The other difference being that in his last 2 years at Geelong, Menzel did little other than play deep and try to get a one-on-one with his opponent. Henry isn't playing like that; he's not sitting as deep as Menzel, not given that we already have two other excellent marking targets up forward.

g_c26 is making Henry sound a bit like Jack Anthony, Tory Dickson, Kent Kingsley or post-injury Menzel, and he's pretty clearly not any of those.

Yeah if I'm interpreting the post right the insinuation is that Henry was a kick-mark only player like the way Menzel was physically limited to. Hence my choice of comparison

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

Kolo averages 1.6 turnovers per game. That ranks him 28th out of 33 Cats this year.

View attachment 1770753

And he has the second fewest turnovers per disposal:

View attachment 1770756

Big Sav leading the way with avoiding turnovers per disposal !

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Kolo averages 1.6 turnovers per game. That ranks him 28th out of 33 Cats this year.

View attachment 1770753

And he has the second fewest turnovers per disposal:

View attachment 1770756

Wait! Sav is the player with the LEAST turnovers per disposal!?!?!

First rounder please Ken

 

[cats_09]

And who would you have play on the opposition’s second tall?

Psst - is this where we also mention that this season he's averaging 1.62 turnovers per game which is the 28th highest turnover rate at the club this year, and it's a grand total of 26 turnovers for the season to date which has the 22nd most at the club this season

There's a few others with many many more turnovers

 

[cats_09]

Kolo averages 1.6 turnovers per game. That ranks him 28th out of 33 Cats this year.

View attachment 1770753

And he has the second fewest turnovers per disposal:

View attachment 1770756

Beat me to it

Love thy tables

 

[moond0g]

Kolo averages 1.6 turnovers per game. That ranks him 28th out of 33 Cats this year.

View attachment 1770753

And he has the second fewest turnovers per disposal:

View attachment 1770756

Interestingly, Esava very low on both counts. But he apparently can’t be picked because of his disposal

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Menegola, Corey, Selwood - none of those are exactly turf scorching players. Far more important for an outside mid these days is endurance.

Anyway, over time, Knevitt will become a clearance player I suspect.

Only Menegola from that group made a name as an outside player and he's quicker than Knevitt.

I watched Knevitt in juniors, he's an inside mid.

 

[moond0g]

Theres plenty of mids currently going around who are "just mids" and don't do much else.
Clayton Oliver/Bontempelli/Liberatore/Merrett/LDU/Serong/Neale/Cerra/Brayshaw/Miller the list goes on and on. They are all "just mids". None are like Petracca who can go forward and kick 4, or like Blicavs who can play everywhere, or Daicos who can play midfield or HBF.

Yeah but those are all top 50 players in the game

 

[cats_09]

Big Sav leading the way with avoiding turnovers per disposal !

Technically he was equal with Jake for turnovers per disposal - Jake averages more disposals per game & marginally more turnovers compared with Ratugolea, and balances out when measured as turnover per disposal


Found it interesting that Stengle was 4th for turnovers per disposal

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Only Menegola from that group made a name as an outside player and he's quicker than Knevitt.

I watched Knevitt in juniors, he's an inside mid.

He is an inside mid who can swing forward when required I think, but I don't mind getting games into him on the wing even if he is a bit slow. He has endurance on his side and it's a great way to bring him through

 

[Mr Meow]

Kolo averages 1.6 turnovers per game. That ranks him 28th out of 33 Cats this year.

View attachment 1770753

And he has the second fewest turnovers per disposal:

View attachment 1770756

This is a seriously fantastic piece of data.

Duncan's placement on this table, as an attacking winger where turnovers are inevitable, should help a few doubters (wishful thinking). He remains near the bottom with the (safety first) key defenders, Rohan and (surprisingly) Atkins.

 

[Warhorse]

He really isn't. Far too slow.

Under 3 seconds for 20m is fairly quick. But certainly looks slow on the field

 

[bulletproof]

Knevitt is a classic modern/versatile AFL player.

He could do the inside work, he is an option out on the wing with his marking attractive as an outlet, pushing back and forward.

Every winger doesn’t have to be quick, they need running power (which he has).

He also could be very handy as a defensive mid, like Blicavs when he plays that role. Clearly size and arm span is handy in this role.

I’d say it was line ball who got dropped out of him and Bruhn after Bulldogs game, and a Bruhn took his chance and opportunities closed up for 2023.

Best 22 in 2024.

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

If you always take the horizontal 15-20m kick in defence your stats will always look good. But if all your players in the backline only ever take the short option you're not going to win the match...