Review Good/Bad v Dead Rubber, Round 23

[Jars458]

Almost seems like a one trick pony, the hole afl knows he will take on the tackler. Most often he gets could or gives it away to easily

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He has no right side at all which often gets him in big trouble. M Crouch by comparison has learned to use his right in limited circumstances to get out of trouble.

 

[jirkago]

He has no right side at all which often gets him in big trouble. M Crouch by comparison has learned to use his right in limited circumstances to get out of trouble.

Mcrouch has worked on all his game, i didnt think he would become an A grader. I was wrong!! An absolute classy player

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[mattymac]

I think West Coast might trouble Power more than Melbourne would have.

Yep Melbourne are cooked

 

[SugarShane]

Now that we have the bye before Finals, why are we travelling west in the last round? I'm fairly certain, now thanks to the bye, there's a long list of Victorian clubs due for that trip.

Disappointing start left us exposed to a fired up, do-or-die West Coast and the umpires seemed to understand the theater of the moment. Looked like we limped to the finish line, Eagles took us through a hardcore fitness session. It might work out to our benefit to get that run in the legs before the bye and finals and at the least, it would make some players very on edge and very thankful to be getting the nod for finals considering some gave the impression to the coach that they might not be up for the heat of finals after today's performance.

I hate playing West Coast in the last round. We always get jumped because of the finals consequences and always get exposed as to not being up for the contest. Every. Bloody. Time.

I've heard rumours that they're going to start trialling a rotation basis to travel west in R23. It's a one year trial and they're going to start alphabetically.

 

[xazos79]

Sucks to lose a game. Decision making, slipping over, players thinking they can phase through time and space to shake a tackle... ugh.

But the worst thing, Crouches and Sloane with those numbers.... and we still lose.

 

[Murray2503]

I've heard rumours that they're going to start trialling a rotation basis to travel west in R23. It's a one year trial and they're going to start alphabetically.

Its not hard. You get a non finalist to travel to perth r23.

 

[Scorpus]

Its not hard. You get a non finalist to travel to perth r23.

Exactly! A team that definitely won't make finals next year like Gold Coast or North Melbourne should travel there next year

 

[Rear Admiral]

Ugly
Umpiring
Forward line

Super shitful forward line, disposal and umpiring is all that really bothered me.

Like seriously, that's two weeks in a row our forward line have been next to useless

We lost the game with our forward 50 entries.

Bad- our forward line without Tex.

Im not overly concerned about losing today but for me we have to clean up our kicking into our forward 50. Most of the year it has been a strength but the last couple weeks in particular today it has been terrible.

Forwards couldn't get near it. J Gov smashed us again. Jenkins horrible.

Sloane and Laird actually annoy me the most. AA players who have more than enough ability to hit the target in the forward 50. But revert to up an under far too often.

This loss in isolation doesn't bother me too much, but the fact that we've played like sh*t, two weeks in a row - big problem.

Two main issues here:

• Absurd congestion inside our Forward 50, and two weeks in a row.
• Against West Coast - tackling like a wet paper bag.

And it's far, far less about Forward Personnel, than it is about tactics and structure.

Pyke seems to have thrown all his weight behind this "press" tactic, where most of our Mids and Defenders push up the ground towards our Forward Line in an attempt to lock the ball inside our Forward 50. In some games this works well, particularly in the wet - quite often opposition teams fumble and lose possession of the Pill when they're trying to generate rebound from their Defensive 50 (our Forward 50). Then we force a quick turnover, typically in our forward half of the ground, then a quick opportunist goal. Two perfect examples were When we smashed Port, and also in another night game at Adelaide Oval when it was p*ssing down. This "press" worked really well both times.

But more and more often, in clean, dry conditions, this press tactic is leading to our undoing. Sure, the ball spends a lot more time in our forward half, but there's so much congestion inside or Forward 50 it's almost impossible to get a clean possession and score. And in the cleaner conditions, opposition teams aren't fumbling and losing possession of the ball on the rebound and are able to get through (or around) our press, then walk into an open goal and score. It happened yesterday against West Coast, and again when we lost to Sydney. And since our Mids and Defenders are pressed up so far forward, they can't properly defend. We end up in a foot race back towards the opposition goals, and the opposition gets easy goals. The ease in which opposition teams are able to get around our press is a huge problem, where we've seen it two weeks in a row. If this particular set of tactics is generating goals, then stick with it, but if you're not seeing results on the scoreboard, then a change needs to be made. High percentage of time inside our forward half means nothing if you can't kick goals.

This tactic definitely has merit, particularly in wet weather, but Finals are rarely played in the rain, and this is the key issue. Time and again I was watching our Forwards desperately trying to effect clean kicks, but with so many players inside our Forward 50....I had my head in my hands, as we couldn't even buy a clean possession. But despite this, Pyke persisted with this tactic. We were doing okay in centre clearances against West Coast, but our ball use inside our Forward 50 was a mess, and it's because of the congestion. Pyke needs to make some serious revisions to his playbook and try and open up the congestion and allow the game to be more open and free-flowing. It might mean the ball spends a bit more time in our defensive half, but when we do move the ball forward, it won't be into a congested quagmire with 20+ players jammed inside our Forward 50 scrapping for a clean possession. He needs to accept that one set of tactics just doesn't work in all weather and all conditions. And against West Coast, our tackling (or lack there of) only added insult to injury.

 

[SugarShane]

Sucks to lose a game. Decision making, slipping over, players thinking they can phase through time and space to shake a tackle... ugh.

Still not sure how to read the game yesterday. Yes, it meant nothing. Yes, it was a dead rubber. But it was also an extremely poor effort. The skills were shocking. It's got to be at least a slight concern at just how terrible we can easily slip to.

 

[LC40]

Still not sure how to read the game yesterday. Yes, it meant nothing. Yes, it was a dead rubber. But it was also an extremely poor effort. The skills were shocking. It's got to be at least a slight concern at just how terrible we can easily slip to.

We'll find out Thursday week I guess. A few played like they didn't want to lay a tackle or chase.
OK for the so called regulars but those on the fringe you would have thought needed to play with more desperation.
It's all about Pyke's mindset. Will he forget the game and trust the same players that got us to the finals or drop a couple that seem horribly out of form.

I'm guessing he'll back his core group to rebound.

 

[Rear Admiral]

Not talking specifically about our loss to West Coast, but some or our other losses:

Our conversion rate from set shots.

And the #1 culprit is Charlie Cameron.
It's blatantly obvious that the lad has poor kicking skills, but Pyke persists with him through the Forward rotations, and this has got to stop. If he only missed occasionally, that's fine, but he's missing far more than he's converting. Added to that, he has pace to burn and is tough as nails, so he can easily be used in other positions around the paddock.

• In the centre clearances.
• Wing.
• Lock-down Defender.
• Fast, rebounding Half Back (think back to who wore his number previously?)

He could be used in any one of the above roles, but he's often used up Forward. We have other players who have far, far better kicking skills, yet they're typically in Defence. Two that spring to mind are Smithers and Luke Brown. I know that their main roles are in Defence, but come Finals time we need to seriously think outside the box if we want to win games. I know a lot of people are calling for Charlie to be Traded at the end of the year, but for now we've got a serious shot at a Flag, and we need to use the list we've got. In the last two games, we either moved the ball into our Forward Line poorly, or we shanked sitters in front of goals. But when you look back at how we won our two flags, it was largely a result of lightning rebound off Half Back by McLeod. We haven't had any of this for longer than I care to remember. Instead, we're focused on this high "press" where almost every player is jammed inside our Forward 50, where we just can't score. The best way to score goals is to move the ball quickly into your Forward Line while there's minimal congestion. We're doing the exact opposite.

Charlie Cameron is one of the fastest blokes out there on the paddock, yet we're using him in a role that's costing us games because of his lousy kicking. He has pace to burn and tackles like a human clamp, so it's ridiculous that he's not positioned where he can use these weapons to his advantage - not in front of goals. It's high time we shook up the on-field positioning and strategies, and from where I sit, moving Charlie into other positions and roles (other than a Small Forward) is at the very top of the list of changes to be made. If we used Charlie to run the ball and deliver to the Forwards, rather than being on the receiving end of these deliveries - I think we'd be a helluva lot better off.

 

[Rear Admiral]

Almost seems like a one trick pony, the hole afl knows he will take on the tackler. Most often he gets could or gives it away to easily

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This is not a bad thing.

I read an article in the paper years ago by 'Roo. The general gist of it was that entirely too many players are petrified of being tackled and give off panicked handballs, and it's these f*cked up panicked disposals are what mostly result in turnovers, and it's turnovers that cost goals. If you get caught in a tackle, but don't cough up the pill, what's the worst thing that can happen? You get caught holding the ball and the opposition gets a free kick. Now this is bad news if you're deep inside your Defensive 50, but in general field play away from Defence, you're far, far better off giving away holding the ball frees all day long, in comparison to panicked disposals and turnovers. When you give away a free, you get to slow up play, give your team mates an opportunity to man up; much better than a fast turn over.

Sure, Atkins doesn't get away with it every time, but I'm fairly certain he succeeds more than he gets caught. I'm fairly certain this taking on the tackler is a directive from Pyke to all the players, and it's one that should've been implemented years ago. The more of it, the better. I'd rather see that, in comparison to the Hospital Handballs of the Craig era. Players need to be taught how to evade tacklers, not simply rely on disposing of the ball to avoid getting caught.

 

[Vader]

Frustrating recent performances.

Why is it that so often as the Crows enter the f50 with a controlled kick to half forward space, that as the pill leaves the boot we can look upfield and PICK the opposition (sometimes loose) defender who the kick is seemingly meant for and who does in fact mark the ball ?

And on the rare occasion that our mids actually looked for a target inside 50 (instead of bombing blindly), they invariably kicked it 2m over the head of their intended target!

 

[StonesThrow]

Ah yes the inability for players to keep their feet? Why wasn't something done about the footwear?

 

[Squiba]

This loss in isolation doesn't bother me too much, but the fact that we've played like sh*t, two weeks in a row - big problem.

Two main issues here:

• Absurd congestion inside our Forward 50, and two weeks in a row.
• Against West Coast - tackling like a wet paper bag.

And it's far, far less about Forward Personnel, than it is about tactics and structure.

Pyke seems to have thrown all his weight behind this "press" tactic, where most of our Mids and Defenders push up the ground towards our Forward Line in an attempt to lock the ball inside our Forward 50. In some games this works well, particularly in the wet - quite often opposition teams fumble and lose possession of the Pill when they're trying to generate rebound from their Defensive 50 (our Forward 50). Then we force a quick turnover, typically in our forward half of the ground, then a quick opportunist goal. Two perfect examples were When we smashed Port, and also in another night game at Adelaide Oval when it was p*ssing down. This "press" worked really well both times.

But more and more often, in clean, dry conditions, this press tactic is leading to our undoing. Sure, the ball spends a lot more time in our forward half, but there's so much congestion inside or Forward 50 it's almost impossible to get a clean possession and score. And in the cleaner conditions, opposition teams aren't fumbling and losing possession of the ball on the rebound and are able to get through (or around) our press, then walk into an open goal and score. It happened yesterday against West Coast, and again when we lost to Sydney. And since our Mids and Defenders are pressed up so far forward, they can't properly defend. We end up in a foot race back towards the opposition goals, and the opposition gets easy goals. The ease in which opposition teams are able to get around our press is a huge problem, where we've seen it two weeks in a row. If this particular set of tactics is generating goals, then stick with it, but if you're not seeing results on the scoreboard, then a change needs to be made. High percentage of time inside our forward half means nothing if you can't kick goals.

This tactic definitely has merit, particularly in wet weather, but Finals are rarely played in the rain, and this is the key issue. Time and again I was watching our Forwards desperately trying to effect clean kicks, but with so many players inside our Forward 50....I had my head in my hands, as we couldn't even buy a clean possession. But despite this, Pyke persisted with this tactic. We were doing okay in centre clearances against West Coast, but our ball use inside our Forward 50 was a mess, and it's because of the congestion. Pyke needs to make some serious revisions to his playbook and try and open up the congestion and allow the game to be more open and free-flowing. It might mean the ball spends a bit more time in our defensive half, but when we do move the ball forward, it won't be into a congested quagmire with 20+ players jammed inside our Forward 50 scrapping for a clean possession. He needs to accept that one set of tactics just doesn't work in all weather and all conditions. And against West Coast, our tackling (or lack there of) only added insult to injury.

Great analysis.

I agree, it is a attempt at locking the ball in. But we end up essentially flooding our own forward line and shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[Hinkstuff]

Good:

No injuries! Milera looked quick.

Hartigan was excellent on Kennedy. We missed him a bit more than we thought.

Seedsmans cannon of a right foot. Collingwood struggle of half back and they traded him- idiots

Crouch brothers and sloane hitting form.

Bad:
WTF Jenkins. Play like that in a final and I will duct tape you to a pole.

Ugly:

Nothing. Were 1st. Have our bunnies first up and Geelong have to play at their opponents home ground. Aaaaand we make port play a team who they havent beaten at home in years.


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Quoting this because I'm looking forward to seeing Jenkins duct taped to a pole.

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[WetCrow1991]

lmao we haven't played shit two weeks in a row, we played well against Sydney, we just kicked poorly for goal, don't forget your dry nights undies for bed time.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Both Atkins and Knight have cemented their spots. Its Seedsman v Mackay and I reckon Seedsman just won.

We need new cement.

 

[Apsaalooke]

I can accept bruise free football in a no consequence game but not repeatedly falling over and missing targets, both of which cost goals and actually increase the chance of injuries.

 

[Golumless]

We need new cement.

Well no, the thought of Atkins getting dropped only exists within bigfooty. He has a role, and is enough of a threat that the opposition don't give him the Mackay treatment (which is don't worry about him at all); means he won't get dropped. His role is to provide moments on offence, offer foil for Smith as an outside midfielder, float back and help with rebounding and force opposition to defend against him, and if he is doing all of that (and he is) he has 0% chance of getting dropped.

Knight is also very unlikely, seeing he's playing a role currently that it's not possible to produce much (Douglas struggled doing the same thing last season); if we are getting a goal a game out of him and he's providing 2-3 moments, he's doing his job. What we're getting now from him is adequate for his role, and it's a good position to pump games into someone.

 

[Wouldbetackler]

Sucks to lose a game. Decision making, slipping over, players thinking they can phase through time and space to shake a tackle... ugh.

But the worst thing, Crouches and Sloane with those numbers.... and we still lose.

No tex no Talia no greenwood with his pressure acts and blocking, shows how much of our structure is broken without them
Jenkins should of kicked 6 but dropped so many easy marks

 

[fairfooty]

Quick note during a break when I ahven't reaad the whole thread. Sunday arvo I said to an old friend who is a Weasels supporter that they'd win - just had a gut feel we somehow didn't learn our lesson from last week and with Tex and Tahlia out we looked vulnerable, particularly down back. In fact I think I'm that General Tahlia is a much bigger hole to fill when he's not there than I realised - and interestingly I wasn't overly impressed with Levers game, this week or last week. Maybe he's already 'checked out'?

 

[ThePrideOf]

Its hard to get mentally prepared for a game that doesnt mean anything... I still remain philosophical about this... We got GWS at home next thursday in front of ~50k passionate crows supporters... they will be preparing mentally and phsically for this next season as Pyke puts it! reading in between the lines of his presser.. he wasnt overly concerned... he knew WCE had plenty to play for. Lets hope they didnt play their final then... and can come out in a few weeks ans smash the Power.

 

[xazos79]

No tex no Talia no greenwood with his pressure acts and blocking, shows how much of our structure is broken without them
Jenkins should of kicked 6 but dropped so many easy marks

Yep. Dropped marks where he had his defender out of position that tex normally gobbles up. Inexcusable for a bloke who's supposedly the strongest in the team.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Well no, the thought of Atkins getting dropped only exists within bigfooty. He has a role, and is enough of a threat that the opposition don't give him the Mackay treatment (which is don't worry about him at all); means he won't get dropped. His role is to provide moments on offence, offer foil for Smith as an outside midfielder, float back and help with rebounding and force opposition to defend against him, and if he is doing all of that (and he is) he has 0% chance of getting dropped.

Knight is also very unlikely, seeing he's playing a role currently that it's not possible to produce much (Douglas struggled doing the same thing last season); if we are getting a goal a game out of him and he's providing 2-3 moments, he's doing his job. What we're getting now from him is adequate for his role, and it's a good position to pump games into someone.

The thought of Mackay getting dropped makes me wet....but it wont happen either.
So there we have it - three underperformers who wont be dropped. WTF have we gone wrong?