Review Good/Bad vs St Kilda, R9 2023

[Scorpus]

Aren't the stats (these AFL ones) coming through in close to real time?

But yes that process makes sense, thanks

This video explains how they do it

 

[CrowBloke]

The Milera-Walker-Jones goal was one of those lovely goal-chains; Walker gets the GA, but without Milera's good handball (score involvement) it doesn't happen.

And how many goals are "unassisted", i.e. the player gets their own ball and goals from it. The Pedlar extraction and goal that has been lauded in this thread is a good example. I'd suggest that not that many goals are "unassisted" but it would be interesting to see that stat.

That Pedlar goal is beautiful, considering how far away he started when the ball was coming in. In this frame (below), the ball is at medium height and Pedlar is all ready sprinting in on the 50m arc, about 25m from where it lands. He slows down, then attacks hard again. If it was Soccer, it's Messi-like:


The Smithers' goal (our 2nd) was a ripper individual effort, quick evasion (did he get a ball-tap from Sloane in a contest?)
The Rachele goal (our 7th) comes from a lovely, intelligent tap-on from Fogarty --- 1%ers like that are barely noticeable but super-effective.

The Crows manufactured goals from a mix of overlapping team chains (above) and individual brilliance (Rankine/Pedlar/Tex twice each) and the Saints looked flummoxed.
To do that to the stingiest team in the League was immensely satisfying.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Would love to know what you have to study to land one of those jobs.

Also how many are at a game and if they're assigned a whole team? A few players, or just handballs

We love an in-depth piece about how that works then see Trent cotchin and his wife do another interview about some bullshit

I wonder if one of the reasons it is shrouded in secrecy, apart from protecting their methods/IP, is because it's a bit rubbery and they'd prefer that remained hidden away.

Like boxing judges, gymnastics judges etc. A subjective element to it.

And they figure it doesn't really matter if things are a bit rubbery. It all comes out in the wash and you're just after a general impression anyway

 

[Interloperer]

Aren't the stats (these AFL ones) coming through in close to real time?

They have an audio commentary feed that just methodically lists match events as they happen. It's depicted at the start of the book footballistics

 

[CrowBloke]

I can almost smell the gin….

... and I'm anticipating:

Never happier to lose a bet.

 

[CrowBloke]

Unassisted goals would also include intercepts from opposition disposals, Tex taking the ball out of the ruck and slamming it on his boot, and (most common) players roving the front of a marking contest.

eg Rankine's second goal.
Both of Pedlar's were sharp opportunist's goals, love'em.

 

[CrowBloke]

I just think it all should be classed as a “score involvement” whether you are the first guy in the chain of possessions that end in a goal or the fifth guy in the chain. Why the last guy in the chain that hands off to the bloke that kicks the goal is classed as something different just seems a bit over the top IMO..

You do realise that would result in Keays having even higher "score involvement" numbers, right?

 

[arrowman]

All true but..

How often do we find ourselves saying “that was Murray’s goal” or “that was doedee’s goal”..

When they have done something awesome in defence and its resulted in a turnover and the team has then run the ball up the other end and scored a goal..

I just think it all should be classed as a “score involvement” whether you are the first guy in the chain of possessions that end in a goal or the fifth guy in the chain. Why the last guy in the chain that hands off to the bloke that kicks the goal is classed as something different just seems a bit over the top IMO..

Yes, all true, but... When the last guy in the chain has lowered his eyes and hit a leading forward lace out, that's worth recognising. Meh, sometimes the stat makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. As I said earlier, it's like disposal efficiency.

 

[CrowBloke]

Both these disposals are adjudged “effective”. They were executed and hit there intended target (landed in the hands of a team mate). Correct?.

But Olivers is far superior and allows his team mate to easily break from the contest whereas Lairds results in his team mate being forced into a rushed kick forward and a turnover..

Are both of these classed equally as efficient disposals?. I believe so.

Erroneous logic.
It's true that a good handball is more effective than a bad one, even when both find their mark.
BUT
You assume that ALL of Oliver's handballs are perfect and ALL of Laird's put a teammate in a bad position, which is obviously not the case. Both make mistakes.

 

[FR0GGY]

They have an audio commentary feed that just methodically lists match events as they happen. It's depicted at the start of the book footballistics

Patrick Parnell D50 ground ball get, contested possession, bounce, D50 exit, inefficient kick, turnover to Rowan Marshall contested mark (take breath)

 

[CrowBloke]

What have you got on Keays banner for his 100th

THE CROWS KEAYS TO SUCCESS
DROP BEN

 

[Bearded Clam]

Erroneous logic.
It's true that a good handball is more effective than a bad one, even when both find their mark.
BUT
You assume that ALL of Oliver's handballs are perfect and ALL of Laird's put a teammate in a bad position, which is obviously not the case. Both make mistakes.

No.. you assume thats what I meant becasue I didnt go that deep into it.

I was thinking more that say 80% of Olivers handballs are like that but only 20% of handballs from laird are “Oliver like” handballs..

So regardless at the end of the day all the ones that hit the target by landing in the hands of a team mate are adjudged as Efficient.

The whole point I was making is that “efficient” isnt just making it into your team mates hands.. its doing so in a way that advantages your team mate too..

And that doesnt show in the way the stat is taken.

 

[CrowBloke]

No.. you assume thats what I meant becasue I didnt go that deep into it.

I was thinking more that say 80% of Olivers handballs are like that but only 20% of handballs from laird are “Oliver like” handballs..

I read what you say, not what you mean.

I'd disagree with your 80:20 comparison but have no numbers to back it up. Oliver's not that good; Laird's not that bad, but exaggeration is a default position for you .

Still, your explanation was a fair reply, thanks .

 

[Bearded Clam]

You do realise that would result in Keays having even higher "score involvement" numbers, right?

Fxxk me.. the conversatiin has moved on from Keays.. I’m now realky just discussing how bad some of these strange stats are regardless of who’s accummulating them.

Your just as obsesssed with defending the keays the spud as I am pointing out how horrible a decision maker and poorly skilled his is!..

 

[jackster83]

The Milera-Walker-Jones goal was one of those lovely goal-chains; Walker gets the GA, but without Milera's good handball (score involvement) it doesn't happen.

I loved Milera sprinting forward with purpose from half back and ending up with the ball 80m from where he started.

Haven't seen him do that since he was still wearing a Centrals jumper.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I read what you say, not what you mean.

I'd disagree with your 80:20 comparison but have no numbers to back it up. Oliver's not that good; Laird's not that bad, but exaggeration is a default position for you .

Still, your explanation was a fair reply, thanks .

Again.. I just plucked olivers and lairds names out of thin air as two names to use in the example..

I couldve picked any names but oliver came to mind because of his awesome handballing abilities which are far better than most in the comp including laird.

 

[Dangarman]

good - coaches votes all went to our lads

Coaches' votes, R9: Dees star, Power gun keep rising

Check out all the coaches' votes from round nine

www.afl.com.au

Adelaide v St Kilda​

8 Brodie Smith (ADEL)
8 Taylor Walker (ADEL)
5 Wayne Milera (ADEL)
5 Jordan Dawson (ADEL)
2 Luke Pedlar (ADEL)
1 Chayce Jones (ADEL)
1 Izak Rankine (ADEL)

Could this be the second time Dawson got 5 votes from one coach and zero from the other? I'm starting to think that Nicks doesn't rate him...

 

[arrowman]

Patrick Parnell D50 ground ball get, contested possession, bounce, D50 exit, inefficient kick, turnover to Rowan Marshall contested mark (take breath)

The Champion Data team for the next Crows home game have all tested positive for COVID. The Bigfooty Adelaide board game day team have been asked to step in.

"Sholl D50 ground ball get, contested possession.."
"That wasn't contested, the Lions player was 2m away, Sholl is soft"
"Nah, he was under pressure - anyway, kick to Jones effective..."
"NOT effective! He missed Jones by a mile!"
"But Jones got to it."
"I'm not having that, Sholl needs to be better than that!"
"So, anyway... Jones effective handball to Keays, Keays..."
"Oh, great. Let's see Keays stuff this up!"
<Rabble rabble rabble, argue, argue...>

"Um, guys? The Crows just scored a goal and the coaches want to know where their stats are, the feed is like 10 minutes behind."

"Do they want accurate stats or not!?!? We need to settle this with a poll!"

 

[Maddogmetro]

Geeez.. thats some real fine goal post shifting right there..

Your comment in your own exact words was.

“Take this stat, and now take out a game which I don't like because it is against my argument, and look how bad it looks!”

Thats it.

In response to my comment about the “goal assist” stat being more meaningless bullshit..

How the fxxk else are we meant to read your comment?.. unless you wrote the rest of it in invisible text.

FFS dude, do you even read before you post?

My comment was in response to your comment talking about the number of GOALS kicked, and that you arbitrarily removed a game where he kicked 3 goals. That is how you interpret my comment.

 

[Maddogmetro]

Its crazy though isnt it arrowman…
and therein lies the reason why i think it is just another bullshit stat..

So player 1 handballs to player 2 who handballs to player 3 who goals..

1 player gets a score involvement and 1 gets a goal assist!..

Bahahaha.. what an absolute load of meningless horseshit clearly thought up by fxxkn morons with boring lives..

Both player 1 and player 2 handballed the fxxkn ball and a goal was created from it.

Why treat the very same actions differently just because 1 occurs immediately before the goal is kicked?..

I'm gonna blow your mind - have you heard of an assist in basketball? WOW

 

[CrowBloke]

Your just as obsesssed with defending the keays the spud as I am pointing out how horrible a decision maker and poorly skilled his is!..

Could be , but there's one difference.
When Keays has a poor game, I acknowledge it; but when he plays well he's still a spud in your eyes.

I wouldn't ask you to watch the whole Saints game again, but please look at the highlights in which Keays figures valuably. He ain't no spud.

 

[Maddogmetro]

Considering how this game works, it tends to be the inverse. The ones closer to goal are getting credit for your work on the half back flank. After all, that's the usually the dispsoal in the chain that breaks an opposition defensive structure and allows for a scoring opportunity.

I imagine score involvements would usually count from the moment a play has started, so you wouldn't get too many more than 4-5 unless you're really overpossessing the ball... or your opposition are spuds and are letting you slowly chip it forwards until you get a shot.

It is also just a stat which tells a story. There is nothing about the stat that says that one is better than the other, just a stat that distinguishes the last possession leading to goal (as it is able to be counted).

But if you are consistently being that player who has the last possession before a goal, it paints a story of your importance to the team's scoring ability.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I'm gonna blow your mind - have you heard of an assist in basketball? WOW

Wow… what an insightful comment maddog..

But it still doesnt answer my question on why the last disposal to the the goal kicker is a “goal assist” and the second to last one, which equally assists in creating the goal is called something else…

 

[Bearded Clam]

It is also just a stat which tells a story. There is nothing about the stat that says that one is better than the other, just a stat that distinguishes the last possession leading to goal (as it is able to be counted).

But if you are consistently being that player who has the last possession before a goal, it paints a story of your importance to the team's scoring ability.

How?..

You might be just giving an easy handball off to the goal kicker running past you..

Whereas the bloke who dished it off to you weaved in and out of traffic, took two bounces, fended off 3 players and then laced it out onto your chest from 50m..

How could that be classed as a lessor part of the chain?..

“There is nothing about the stat that says that one is better than the other”

Exactly!!… and thats why its a strange stat.. what makes being the second last bloke in the chain anymore special than all the fxxkn other blokes in the chain?

 

[Samcro24]

Would love to know what you have to study to land one of those jobs.

Counting and football.