Review Good/Bad vs St Kilda, R9 2023

[arrowman]

players roving the front of a marking contest.

Maybe tall forwards who make a contest and bring the ball to ground should get credited with a goal assist.

 

[UcantCme]

Just started watching the game replay.
Referencing the Saints' 2023 defensive record, one of the commentators (Brereton?) said: "It must be a horrible feeling going out there thinking you're going to be hard-pressed to kick goals...".

2.5 hours later, 19.7

I mentioned this during the game

Both Dermie and Dal picked Saints, there was no correction of their selections lol

IMO St Kilda’s win / loss and defensive record has been a little over stated

They have played some bottom sides and teams like Carlton, and WB early in the year when both clubs were poorly out of form


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[VictorianCrow85]

Think what might have been had we nailed the McAsey pick now that we are seeing the fruits of the picks we nailed..A Caleb Serong or Will Day in addition to what we have and it would have been almost a complete midfield set up

At least the trade down netted us Pedlar didn't it? Still would be nice had we nailed the other pick but at least Pedlar is looking like he'll be a huge win.

 

[arrowman]

I’d love to know how many people they have recording the stats per game, seems so many things they have to be looking for at each contest.

According to this:

https://www.zoominfo.com/c/champion-data-pty-ltd/353489365

https://www.zoominfo.com/pic/champion-data-pty-ltd/353489365

They have 267 or 114 employees, depending on which page you look at. There's a full list on that site, but you'd have to go through and count up the "Data Capturers" or whatever they are. Assuming those on the employee list are the only ones who work at the games.

Glossary – AFL – Champion Data

www.championdata.com

They have two staff at each game just tracking matchups.

I'm going to guess something like 10 at each game, maybe not even that, if they're working their butts off and hitting laptop buttons like mad. Probably quite a skilled job.

 

[arrowman]

Not only that, but a team who can't develop from the 2nd round onwards has a snowball hope in hell of winning a premiership.

Sure, you need to hit on the first round picks, but you also need to be filtering out the picks that don't quite live up to the billing with talented options.

Yes. One first rounder every year (maybe 2 some years) gives you 4-5 players in a 4 year period, and if 3 of those turn into A graders you're doing well. You've got to back it up with your 2nd and 3rd round picks, and, as you say, filtering out.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Have posted before that I'd be interested to see two Champion Data stats guys put in separate booths and asked to code the same bit of game footage.

See whether there is any interpretation to their categories or whether it's cut and dried.

 

[Dirty Bird]

We have had Mothers Day fixtures nearly every year I reckon. Previously it used to be vs Melb at the G, and they were always shocking games with barely 20,000 there.

This year we don't even play in Melb until Round 15, which is nearly impossible when you think of how many things have to occur for that to happen!

I don't believe so actually

It's port Adelaide's biggest gripe

Complain about home mothers day most years

Do they not realise it's a symptom of a problem you created (asking for home Anzac Rd which is normally 2 weeks prior....)

 

[Bearded Clam]

Like all stats they have their limitations (I mean, we argue about disposal efficiency all the time), but they're not total BS. This subject has caught my attention, so I'll bang on a bit...

Score Involvement: You are right to say that the further back in the chain you go, the less meaningful this stat becomes. Hitting a target off HBF for example gives you a tick for disposal efficiency, but after that you're just getting credit for your teammates' work further up the ground.

I think it becomes more meaningful when the play is closer to goal e.g. extracting the ball from a contest in the F50, handballing to a teammate who then handballs over the top to the goal kicker etc. I think some credit is due for that. (OK, you get credit for the contested possession or whatever.)

Which brings me to ask the question: I wonder how long scoring chains typically are? My guess is that a chain of more than 3-4 would be relatively uncommon. I'd like to see the stat for "length of scoring chains". It's a team stat more than an individual stat.

Goal Assist: I think this is pretty meaningful. It's a measure of the player's involvement in setting up a score: a quick handball in the F50, an accurate F50 entry etc. How many times have we bemoaned our mids' inability to lower their eyes and hit up targets? Those are valuable goal assists.

- And how many goals are "unassisted", i.e. the player gets their own ball and goals from it. The Pedlar extraction and goal that has been lauded in this thread is a good example. I'd suggest that not that many goals are "unassisted" but it would be interesting to see that stat.

All true but..

How often do we find ourselves saying “that was Murray’s goal” or “that was doedee’s goal”..

When they have done something awesome in defence and its resulted in a turnover and the team has then run the ball up the other end and scored a goal..

I just think it all should be classed as a “score involvement” whether you are the first guy in the chain of possessions that end in a goal or the fifth guy in the chain. Why the last guy in the chain that hands off to the bloke that kicks the goal is classed as something different just seems a bit over the top IMO..

 

[jackster83]

All true but..

How often do we find ourselves saying “that was Murray’s goal” or “that was doedee’s goal”..

When they have done something awesome in defence and its resulted in a turnover and the team has then run the ball up the other end and scored a goal..

I just think it all should be classed as a “score involvement” whether you are the first guy in the chain of possessions that end in a goal or the fifth guy in the chain. Why the last guy in the chain that hands off to the bloke that kicks the goal is classed as something different just seems a bit over the top IMO..

Would that come under a "score launch" stat?

I've heard that term used a bit in recent times but not overly sure what it means.

 

[Apsaalooke]

At least the trade down netted us Pedlar didn't it? Still would be nice had we nailed the other pick but at least Pedlar is looking like he'll be a huge win.

Basically pick 4 for Pedlar

 

[VictorianCrow85]

Basically pick 4 for Pedlar

Could very well end up worth that imo. At this point you'd think maybe not far off the mark but we'll see how he continues to grow.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Have posted before that I'd be interested to see two Champion Data stats guys put in separate booths and asked to code the same bit of game footage.

See whether there is any interpretation to their categories or whether it's cut and dried.

Thats the other thing with these stats..

When Clayton Oliver handballs to a team mate he nearly always does so in a manner that is perfectly weighted and allows his team mate to run onto it not even breaking stride.

When, lets say, Rory Laird handballs to a team mate it still lands in his hands but the team mate has to stop, prop and wait for it as it isnt a perfect handball.. thus breaking his run and putting him under pressure from opponents closing in.

Both these disposals are adjudged “effective”. They were executed and hit there intended target (landed in the hands of a team mate). Correct?.

But Olivers is far superior and allows his team mate to easily break from the contest whereas Lairds results in his team mate being forced into a rushed kick forward and a turnover..

Are both of these classed equally as efficient disposals?. I believe so.

Oliver and Lairds DE% stats end up being the same at the end of the game… But we all know when we watch the game that Clayton Oliver used the ball far better than Laird.

Which makes a complete mockery of using a stat like DE in any attempt to compare two players.

 

[Coopers]

Re. Riley Thilthorpe starting in the ruck each quarter

Nicks: "That's where we have elite leaders. So we had a conversation through the week with Riley and his ability to start a game off, impact the game early and I sat down with Reilly O'Brien and asked how do you feel about this and ROB was a massive supporter of it."

Taking that at face value, it's a huge positive if a senior player is willing to sacrifice his own game / step aside to help a younger player. It hasn't felt like that's been the case before. Previously senior players would only be shuffled aside from their preferred role begrudgingly, and only after an extended period of terrible performances.

Can't really imagine (well I can I guess) ROB going "nah, mate, that's BS, get bent filthy, you'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands".

Unity, leadership and all that.

 

[cleanhands]

Thats the other thing with these stats..

When Clayton Oliver handballs to a team mate he nearly always does so in a manner that is perfectly weighted and allows his team mate to run onto it not even breaking stride.

When, lets say, Rory Laird handballs to a team mate it still lands in his hands but the team mate has to stop, prop and wait for it as it isnt a perfect handball.. thus breaking his run and putting him under pressure from opponents closing in.

Both these disposals are adjudged “effective”. They were executed and hit there intended target (landed in the hands of a team mate). Correct?.

But Olivers is far superior and allows his team mate to easily break from the contest whereas Lairds results in his team mate being forced into a rushed kick forward and a turnover..

Are both of these classed equally as efficient disposals?. I believe so.

Oliver and Lairds DE% stats end up being the same at the end of the game… But we all know when we watch the game that Clayton Oliver used the ball far better than Laird.

Which makes a complete mockery of using a stat like DE in any attempt to compare two players.

What have you got on Keays banner for his 100th

 

[Coopers]

I get nervous when commentators talk us up like that. Maybe it's just PTSD, but I think in general commentators tend to overstate the case "OMG how good are they?" and supporters (of rebuilding / middling clubs) tend to be more circumspect / sceptical.

PS speaking of the comments about Dawson's "down day" and still in the coaches' votes: I'd love to see the Brownlow and coaches' votes for each game, side by side, at the end of the season; it might make for interesting reading and many online debates.

Dawson's clearly had 3 BOG performances, and is probalby likley to have featured in the top 3 up to 6 times I think.

He'd have to be right up there at this point.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Can't really imagine (well I can I guess) ROB going "nah, mate, that's BS, get bent filthy, you'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands".

Unity, leadership and all that.

I can't imagine Sam Jacobs being cool with it

 

[Interloperer]

Dawson's clearly had 3 BOG performances, and is probalby likley to have featured in the top 3 up to 6 times I think.

He'd have to be right up there at this point.

Dawson was clear best on ground vs Carlton and Fremantle. I wouldn't have him as the best in any other game (Brownlow votes are not awarded part way through the third quarter).

He'd probably be in the region of the top 3 in a lot more though.

 

[Stephen2]

Have posted before that I'd be interested to see two Champion Data stats guys put in separate booths and asked to code the same bit of game footage.

See whether there is any interpretation to their categories or whether it's cut and dried.

So in my previous life I worked at a data entry firm.

We'd work like this for the highest tier of accuracy required:

• Person 1 keys the form into the computer
• Person 2 keys the form into the computer separately
• Any discrepancies are sent to Person 3 for adjudication

I assume their process would be very similar and they'd be doing it right now like you've described, but with even more checks. Accuracy would be vital to their business model.

 

[Coopers]

Dawson was clear best on ground vs Carlton and Fremantle. I wouldn't have him as the best in any other game (Brownlow votes are not awarded part way through the third quarter).

He'd probably be in the region of the top 3 in a lot more though.

Well, he won the showdown medal too...

 

[jenny61_99]

The only one I would not have had on that list is Rankine. Soligo was in my best. Our defense was awesom. All played well.

Not sure our defence was “awesome” we looked very brittle at times and didn’t kill the ball off when fighting for it in the goal square. Tighten that shut up and I’ll be happier.

 

[jenny61_99]

I am really surprised (happily), especially after the first 2 rounds. I was worried we could be 3-7 after 10 rounds.
The footy we've played in the PA, Carlton and Saints wins has been great to watch; irresistible.
Shades of 2017 but more even contributions.

I can almost smell the gin….

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

So in my previous life I worked at a data entry firm.

We'd work like this for the highest tier of accuracy required:

• Person 1 keys the form into the computer
• Person 2 keys the form into the computer separately
• Any discrepancies are sent to Person 3 for adjudication

I assume their process would be very similar and they'd be doing it right now like you've described, but with even more checks. Accuracy would be vital to their business model.

Aren't the stats (these AFL ones) coming through in close to real time?

But yes that process makes sense, thanks

 

[Mutineer]

LOL Jake

Aren't the stats (these AFL ones) coming through in close to real time?

But yes that process makes sense, thanks

Well all the coaches have an open laptop in front of them they're always referring to so it would be highly likely that's the Champion Data feed?

 

[ams4crows]

Have posted before that I'd be interested to see two Champion Data stats guys put in separate booths and asked to code the same bit of game footage.

See whether there is any interpretation to their categories or whether it's cut and dried.

Would love to know what you have to study to land one of those jobs.

Also how many are at a game and if they're assigned a whole team? A few players, or just handballs

We love an in-depth piece about how that works then see Trent cotchin and his wife do another interview about some bullshit

 

[Interloperer]

Well, he won the showdown medal too...

(Brownlow votes are not awarded part way through the third quarter).