NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[LunchboxLegend]

Genocide doesn't require killing (and there was killing). That is just the most common use of the word that you would be used to.

I find that using the most common use of words is helpful. Certainly beats making up meanings for words.

When everyone uses their own meanings for words, words become meaningless. (Although you can never be wrong, which must be fun I guess….}

 

[jannissary]

Try adding A and D

yeah but i doubt our good friend would take our uneducated word on the matter! they know more than us, right?

 

[Elixuh]

I find that using the most common use of words is helpful. Certainly beats making up meanings for words.

When everyone uses their own meanings for words, words become meaningless. (Although you can never be wrong, which must be fun I guess….}

Wot.

The most common use of the word in context, eg most people know the word genocide from Hitler and the Holocaust. Fewer know its application to the Stolen Generation. That is my point. No one is making up meanings.

 

[phantom13]

Really didn’t think this thread would plumb deeper depths but here we are denying the stolen generation was genocide… Jesus.

 

[jannissary]

I find that using the most common use of words is helpful. Certainly beats making up meanings for words.

When everyone uses their own meanings for words, words become meaningless. (Although you can never be wrong, which must be fun I guess….}

genocide isn't just confined to murder and killing. here's the United Nation's definition of it, hope this helps!


just in case you don't feel like reading it

 

[Kwality]

I would be moving on to an expert in Human Rights

It certainly wasnt the Mexican standoff I predicted from following the Clayton Utz email to Leon Zwier.
Not sure there was any expertise in Human Rights involved, more likely lawyers representing their clients: I thrust, you parry, in the expectation the complainants were keen their identities out of the media.

 

[South of the Yarra]

As I said a lot of Stolen Generation experts who really have no idea. Just know it was a horrific. Beyod horrific and a part of every stolen generation survivor was left there. Is it worth arguing about?

 

[Gralin]

I find that using the most common use of words is helpful. Certainly beats making up meanings for words.

When everyone uses their own meanings for words, words become meaningless. (Although you can never be wrong, which must be fun I guess….}

when you look up the actual definition of genocide, not just what you think it means, as has been pointed out the stolen generation and many other measures from the history of this country meet that definition.

The UN Human Rights council kind of has a little more sway on this definition that you, so I suggest you move on from this

 

[peetoo]

Could be in a Boarding School / School Trip / academy / High performance Institute of Sport kind of way.

Paid.

 

[Festerz]

curious as to what ur definition of genocide is if the stolen generation doesn't count as a genocide.

Suggest you and others here take a breath and read what I posted and reflect.

What I posted was this:

The Stolen Generation wasn't based in those in power subscribing to some sort of mass genocide theory at at all.

Do you see it now?

I was not making a comment about genocide and what happened as a result of the stolen generation policies (but hey thanks all for the helpful cut and pastes to suit your own narratives.)

Nor was I 'denying the stolen generation was genocide'… Jesus!

I was talking about what those in power (i.e governments) intended in the early and mid part of the 1900s and comparing it to the motives of those leaders involved in the Hawthorn racism scandal.

You do not need to lecture me about the direct and ongoing impacts of the Stolen Generation or how it is now interpreted ex post. Black fellas always knew what it was. And white fellas only used the term 'genocide' as it ended.

What will we call what the Hawthorn Three allegedly tried to do with their Indigenous players and their families as we look back on that in history?

After all - those three fellas- Burt, Clarkson and Fagan were only doing what they thought was in the best interests of the moral and physical welfare of those players - to maximise their chances of success in the AFL. As they thought best.

Now take a look at the wording of S13A of the Aboriginal Welfare Act No. 2 of 1915:

The Board may assume full control and custody of the child of any aborigine, if after due inquiry it is satisfied that such a course is in the interest of the moral and physical welfare of such child. The Board may thereupon remove such child to such control and care as it thinks best.

Get it? The similarities in intent- a century apart? Nah, didn't think so.

Much easier to play cheap point scoring semantics with google than to maybe think about the pivot point around which this saga has evolved and progressed.

i.e. The difference between what was done, what was said and what was intended on one side and what was heard, what was interpreted and what was felt on the other. And between them both a couple of hundred years of cultural division, mistreatment, loss and ignorance.

But yeah. Give me another cut and paste of the dictionary definition of genocide to reflect on. Because that's what matters.

FMD.

 

[peetoo]

We keep swinging to stolen generations, but I have asked many times, is there even one reference directly within this case (not the many social media and actual media discussion articles)

 

[peetoo]

Just one reference please?

 

[Gralin]

Suggest you and others here take a breath and read what I posted and reflect.

What I posted was this:



Do you see it now?

I was not making a comment about genocide and what happened as a result of the stolen generation policies (but hey thanks all for the helpful cut and pastes to suit your own narratives.)

I was talking about what those in power (i.e governments) intended. To improve the welfare of Indigenous kids.

You do not need to lecture me about the direct and ongoing impacts of the Stolen Generation or how it is now interpreted ex post. Black fellas always knew what it was. And white fellas only used the term 'genocide' as it ended.

What will we call what the Hawthorn Three allegedly tried to do with their Indigenous players and their families as we look back on that in history?

After all - those three fellas- Burt, Clarkson and Fagan were only doing what they thought was interests of the moral and physical welfare of those players - to maximise their chances of success in the AFL. As they thought best.

Now take a look at the wording of S13A of the Aboriginal Welfare Act No. 2 of 1915.

The Board may assume full control and custody of the child of any aborigine, if after due inquiry it is satisfied that such a course is in the interest of the moral and physical welfare of such child. The Board may thereupon remove such child to such control and care as it thinks best.

Get it?

if you want to argue this go start a thread on the stolen generation on SRP

you'll be wrong but you can be wrong there instead of here

 

[LunchboxLegend]

It LITERALLY doesn’t make the UN’s OWN LIST of historical instances of genocide.

But noone’s mind is changing.

 

[Gralin]

It LITERALLY doesn’t make the UN’s OWN LIST of historical instances of genocide.

But noone’s mind is changing.

move on or you are out of the thread

 

[Bugz]

Really didn’t think this thread would plumb deeper depths but here we are denying the stolen generation was genocide… Jesus.

If only you had the power to caution posters or even get rid of questionable posts. Moderate the discussion, in short.

But that would eliminate opportunities for you to demonstrate just how much more virtuous you are, compared to them.

 

[Gralin]

If only you had the power to caution posters or even get rid of questionable posts. Moderate the discussion, in short.

But that would eliminate opportunities for you to demonstrate just how much more virtuous you are, compared to them.

p13 is not a mod on this board, they have no powers here

 

[South of the Yarra]

It LITERALLY doesn’t make the UN’s OWN LIST of historical instances of genocide.

But noone’s mind is changing.

Were you there?

 

[Bugz]

Were you there?

Can you please apply this standard to your posts about this Hawthorn issue? You were not there, you will never truly know what happened. Stop speaking in absolutes about guilt and innocence.

 

[phantom13]

If only you had the power to caution posters or even get rid of questionable posts. Moderate the discussion, in short.

But that would eliminate opportunities for you to demonstrate just how much more virtuous you are, compared to them.

p13 is not a mod on this board, they have no powers here

This plus i find it’s more effective to let idiots out themselves.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Can you please apply this standard to your posts about this Hawthorn issue? You were not there, you will never truly know what happened. Stop speaking in absolutes about guilt and innocence.

Never once spoken about guilt and innocence. Have just spoken about justice and fairness.

 

[Kwality]

Suggest you and others here take a breath and read what I posted and reflect.

What I posted was this:



Do you see it now?

I was not making a comment about genocide and what happened as a result of the stolen generation policies (but hey thanks all for the helpful cut and pastes to suit your own narratives.)

Nor was I 'denying the stolen generation was genocide'… Jesus!

I was talking about what those in power (i.e governments) intended in the early and mid part of the 1900s and comparing it to the motives of those leaders involved in the Hawthorn racism scandal.

You do not need to lecture me about the direct and ongoing impacts of the Stolen Generation or how it is now interpreted ex post. Black fellas always knew what it was. And white fellas only used the term 'genocide' as it ended.

What will we call what the Hawthorn Three allegedly tried to do with their Indigenous players and their families as we look back on that in history?

After all - those three fellas- Burt, Clarkson and Fagan were only doing what they thought was interests of the moral and physical welfare of those players - to maximise their chances of success in the AFL. As they thought best.

Now take a look at the wording of S13A of the Aboriginal Welfare Act No. 2 of 1915:

The Board may assume full control and custody of the child of any aborigine, if after due inquiry it is satisfied that such a course is in the interest of the moral and physical welfare of such child. The Board may thereupon remove such child to such control and care as it thinks best.

Get it? The similarities in intent- a century apart? Nah, didn't think so.

Much easier to play cheap point scoring semantics with google isn't it?

Is any post that does not accord with your point of view a lecture ?

 

[Festerz]

Is any post that does not accord with your point of view a lecture ?

This from the person who cuts and pastes huge slabs of copyrighted mush in BF from his favourite Murdoch rag as a substitute for his own lack of thought process.

When just a hyperlink to the mast head of the latest Australian Newspaper with a byline- 'these are my thoughts today' would suffice.

I get it. Simple minds like simple things. The thinking behind the binary thought process.

Sorry I can't oblige.

 

[jannissary]

I was talking about what those in power (i.e governments) intended. To improve the welfare of Indigenous kids.

it's a touch incredulous to just talk about intentions when in practice those "intentions" fell horrifically flat. did it improve the perceived welfare of aboriginal and torres strait islander kids? or did it not?

if it didn't, then why did they do it in the first place? make it make sense please!

I was not making a comment about genocide and what happened as a result of the stolen generation policies (but hey thanks all for the helpful cut and pastes to suit your own narratives.)

Now take a look at the wording of S13A of the Aboriginal Welfare Act No. 2 of 1915:

The Board may assume full control and custody of the child of any aborigine, if after due inquiry it is satisfied that such a course is in the interest of the moral and physical welfare of such child. The Board may thereupon remove such child to such control and care as it thinks best.

my nefarious narratives and agenda of personally identifying that the stolen generation did infact align with many of the "criteria" at the united nations views as being genocide yeah.

in quoting that act, i think you should think about why it might be very uncomfortable for aboriginal and torres strait islander players being told things like "your partner should get an abortion for your playing future"

maybe i'm a bit too much of an evil lefty for thinking that is extremely inappropriate for them to tell anyone that their partner should get an abortion, but especially a minority from a group that had, just a few decades earlier had a government effort to "protect them" which really didn't work too well in "protecting them"

 

[Kwality]

This from the guy who cuts and pastes huge slabs of copyrighted mush in BF from his favourite Murdoch rag as a substitute for his own lack of thought process.

I get it. Simple minds like simple things. The thinking behind the binary thought process.

Sorry I can't oblige.

A shallow response as expected.