Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[Strapping Young Lad]

That's just intellectually dishonest or plainly stupid. People over preseason watched how pies finished off games for example. Week to week analysis is way different. If you can't understand the difference that's on you.

Plainly stupid would be suggesting that AFL clubs haven’t bothered trying to work out how to stop Hawthorn while they’ve had one of the best form lines of all teams in the comp.

 

[Delisted]

I don't think I've posted in this thread in years, if at all. The topic never really interested me.

Your talk of dynasty suggests that tanking/rebuild period is over, am I correct in assuming that?

You're mob is now talking like you're finals bound and a sneaky chance of winning the flag. Or are you still tanking whilst trying to win a flag is that it? Never heard of that strategy before.

And whilst on the subject this thread should now be closed as brown and yellow fans are carrying on as if their boys are primed for a flag tilt this year and definitely for the upcoming seasons.

What is my perfect crime? I break into Tiffany's at midnight. Do I go for the vault? No, I go for the chandelier. It's priceless. As I'm taking it down, a woman catches me. She tells me to stop. It's her father's business. She's Tiffany. I say no. We make love all night. In the morning, the cops come and I escape in one of their uniforms. I tell her to meet me in Mexico, but I go to Canada. I don't trust her. Besides, I like the cold. Thirty years later, I get a postcard. I have a son and he's the chief of police. This is where the story gets interesting. I tell Tiffany to meet me by the Trocadero in Paris. She's been waiting for me all these years. She's never taken another lover. I don't care. I don't show up. I go to Berlin. That's where I stashed the chandelier.

 

[QuietB]

So with results falling the way they have over weekend, destiny in Hawks hands?

Hawks are set to become the first tanking team in history to accidentally make finals.

Cannot believe how badly they have screwed this up - Hawks are no chance to win the off-season premiership now

I guess it is Essendon's to lose again

 

[black is White]

Plainly stupid would be suggesting that AFL clubs haven’t bothered trying to work out how to stop Hawthorn while they’ve had one of the best form lines of all teams in the comp.

They'll be putting the work in now no doubt. Obviously teams coming up against you try but it's not the same thing when everyone sees a team being very successful in what they do and every other team tries to counter and or inteoduce something similar to their own. I'm not talking crap either I know Mark Harvey ex Freo coach which confirmed this for me. People here are so naive in how things actually operate.

 

[theiaofseed]

You could argue 2019 as ground-zero for the rebuild as that is when we started actually keeping and using our first rounders. So for mine, recruitment of Will Day with pick 13 in 2019 marks the start point of the rebuild rather than the move from Clarko to Mitchell, although Mitchell was clearly a lot more aggressive in his approach, as exemplified by the moving on of O'Meara and Tom Mitchell.

No you can't, we tried to bring in multiple big FA's and failed. We bought in Scully, Patton, Hartley Brooksby, Minchington and played those duds over youth. Lewis and Moore we dominating the VFL and couldn't crack the senior team.

 

[Hawkk]

When people remember this season they'll talk about Carlton choking their run home to finals, so yes I call it an almighty choke job over anything else. I don't rate the Hawks whatsoever, just as I don't rate Geelong. They are making up the numbers while the Blues are imploding

You have a very, very shit coach

 

[theiaofseed]

Im not even slightly salty about it, Blues were traffic cones out there today. Hawks didn't impress me at all, they don't have the talent to make a dent in finals.

We've lost 3 games in 4 months of footy to the current second, third and fourth place sides on their home decks. Two of which were by one and two point margins after Hawthorn coughed up big leads. What about that 4 month period gives any indication theyre not a quality team?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

They'll be putting the work in now no doubt. Obviously teams coming up against you try but it's not the same thing when everyone sees a team being very successful in what they do and every other team tries to counter and or inteoduce something similar to their own. I'm not talking crap either I know Mark Harvey ex Freo coach which confirmed this for me. People here are so naive in how things actually operate.

Oh, they’ll be putting work in… now?

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Rebuilds are real hard Red Bull

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I just want to add that everyone knows how to beat Carlton just like they do my team in Collingwood. Same with a few others clubs like Melbourne and even Brisbane and now Sydney. Any good team is hard to beat especially on their day but when you have the known methods it makes it easier. No one has done the work on hawks yet but that time will come and that's when we will find out where this list truly sits.

This is so dumb

Acting like game strategy happens at the start of the season and can’t change

Pies are old and injured, no strategy needed there

Not even relevant in this thread

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I don't think I've posted in this thread in years, if at all. The topic never really interested me.

Your talk of dynasty suggests that tanking/rebuild period is over, am I correct in assuming that?

Your mob is now talking like you're finals bound and a sneaky chance of winning the flag. Or are you still tanking whilst trying to win a flag is that it? Never heard of that strategy before.

And whilst on the subject this thread should now be closed as brown and yellow fans are carrying on as if their boys are primed for a flag tilt this year and definitely for the upcoming seasons.

So you thought

What’s a good use of my Sunday night

“I know, il write a post that not only makes no sense, it will paint me as someone who cares about the joy of others as it affects me directly”

 

[TigerTime88]

Clearly have a lack of footy knowledge, read my later comment.

Yeah pal I have the lack of footy knowledge in this situation. Teams take no tactics into a game to counter an opposition. You're narrative that the higher teams have more people coming for them is straight off SEN.

If you don't think oppo teams are doing as much as possible to work out and stifle the Hawks then I can't help you.

 

[MinerBoy]

Not entirely, we still need to rely on Carlton doing worse than us % wise if we both keep winning, so two wins alone might not be enough if Carlton have bigger wins to finish off the season.

I think if we win both by any margin we over take Freo regardless of what Carlton do.

 

[HairyO]

Clarkson was still trying to add 29yr olds to the list as late as 2020.
We changed strategy and hit the draft with focus in 2021.

29 year olds have 3 to 5 years left in them.

A 29 year old FF or FB would have done more than Lewis or Blanck over the last few years.

 

[randyzany]

“I know, il write a post that not only makes no sense, it will paint me as someone who cares about the joy of others as it affects me directly”

Talking about making no sense.

it will paint me as someone who cares about the joy of others as it affects me directly”

I thought the content was straight forward, I'll try my best to make as simple as possible if that post was too confusing for you.

When the brown and yellow's rebuild supposedly started is of no interest to me hence why I don't think I've posted this thread in years, if ever.

But seeing so many brown and yellow fans up and about in a similar fashion as to when they were a contender, piqued my interest hence why I dropped by this thread.

In response to the poster's question of why I'm in this thread, it's because like I said I've recently noticed many brown and yellow fans on BF running their mouths about other teams after being relatively quite for several years and more or less carrying on like the rebuild/tanking period is basically over. So I decided to to chime in by saying that it's about got damn time.

After being and irrelevant losing team for so long, it's no big achievement that the brown and yellow is finally coming good. Hawthorn should have accumulated enough talent via the draft or trades in those years at the bottom to become a decent team much much sooner given their time spent at the bottom.

Hope that is clear enough for you and anybody else struggling to understand.

 

[Blackhawk42]

You could argue 2019 as ground-zero for the rebuild as that is when we started actually keeping and using our first rounders. So for mine, recruitment of Will Day with pick 13 in 2019 marks the start point of the rebuild rather than the move from Clarko to Mitchell, although Mitchell was clearly a lot more aggressive in his approach, as exemplified by the moving on of O'Meara and Tom Mitchell.

While this is true, I refuse to accept that a team consistently playing Patton, Minchington, Scully and Michael Hartley through 2020 was in 'rebuild' mode.

Start of 2021 when Moore, Jiath and Day in particular became regulars.
Grabbing Newcombe in the MSD and playing him immediately also highlighted the rebuild was in full swing.

 

[The 747]

They are good to watch this year. And unlike previous years where they went on a winning spree after it mattered, they have forced their way into the eight and also provided us all with great merriment by belting Carlton and Collingwood.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Talking about making no sense.



I thought the content was straight forward, I'll try my best to make as simple as possible if that post was too confusing for you.

When the brown and yellow's rebuild supposedly started is of no interest to me hence why I don't think I've posted this thread in years, if ever.

But seeing so many brown and yellow fans up and about in a similar fashion as to when they were a contender, piqued my interest hence why I dropped by this thread.

In response to the poster's question of why I'm in this thread, it's because like I said I've recently noticed many brown and yellow fans on BF running their mouths about other teams after being relatively quite for several years and more or less carrying on like the rebuild/tanking period is basically over. So I decided to to chime in by saying that it's about got damn time.

After being and irrelevant losing team for so long, it's no big achievement that the brown and yellow is finally coming good. Hawthorn should have accumulated enough talent via the draft or trades in those years at the bottom to become a decent team much much sooner given their time spent at the bottom.

Hope that is clear enough for you and anybody else struggling to understand.

So what have you accomplished?

Your thought process is, now that Hawthorn are doing well, I wanna chirp up

Shit on a team doing well?
Get some trauma of your chest?

Real pathetic areas

 

[Philhawk]

This thread has proven to be essentially a donkey catching exercise.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

So what have you accomplished?

Shit on a team doing well?
Get some trauma of your chest?

Real pathetic areas

The guy needs help. Still Suffering post 2008 trauma

 

[randyzany]

So what have you accomplished?

Shit on a team doing well?
Get some trauma of your chest?

Real pathetic areas

I hope you have that same attitude towards Hawk fans beating their chest and mustering the courage to trash talk other teams all of a sudden after being relatively quite for many years.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I hope you have that same attitude towards Hawk fans beating their chest and trash talking other teams all of a sudden after being relatively quite for many years.

I’ve had practice telling “holier than though” Cats fans over the last few years

Il be fine

You on the other hand

Hope your ok

 

[randyzany]

I’ve had practice telling “holier than though” Cats fans over the last few years

Il be fine

You on the other hand

Hope your ok

BF has never being a place for ONLY constructive criticism and praise, especially from fans of teams that are doing well as they're the ones who dish out the most flak.

Subtle and not so subtle trolling makes up at least half of the posts on BF unless you are somehow very selective at what you decide to read.

 

[hk89]

While this is true, I refuse to accept that a team consistently playing Patton, Minchington, Scully and Michael Hartley through 2020 was in 'rebuild' mode.

Start of 2021 when Moore, Jiath and Day in particular became regulars.
Grabbing Newcombe in the MSD and playing him immediately also highlighted the rebuild was in full swing.

Not arguing when it became in full swing, talking about when it started. Unless you want a lot more angst than you need, then you don't want to be dumping all your old blokes at the start of the rebuild and suddenly playing all kids. I'm arguing the transition from "we are not far off, let's try to trade into a another flag" to "ok, we're not going to do it with this core group, let's start again with a new batch of kids" started in 2019. I'm not saying we went from an aging has-been list to a list of exciting young players in 2019-2020, but you can see the change of direction had occurred, and then accelerated from there (mostly off the back on getting and actually using our early picks over the period from 2019-2023). I agree that the rebuild was much more evident by 2021, but I still think you can trace back the beginning to 2019, which started the string of "keep and use our first founder". The next phase will be when we start to flip back to thinking about trading out first rounders to fill holes, which might be as soon as this season.

More, Jiath and Day all debuted under Clarko before 2021, as did Mitchell Lewis, Scrimshaw , Nash and Morrison. Clarko wasn't the type to throw games at players that were not ready, and IMO he kept giving games to some old favourites longer than he should have, but I think the club had definitely moved on from the 'top up again' plan. Will Day in particular would likely have played a lot more games under Clarko if it wasn't for injury.

 

[hk89]

I think if we win both by any margin we over take Freo regardless of what Carlton do.

Yes, finishing above Carlton isn't the only path to finals for us, but it is the closest to "in our control", i.e the only one that doesn't rely on other teams definitely losing for us to make it. I agree Freo could easily fall behind us now, but that is still very much in their hands not ours. At least with Carlton we don't need them to lose (but we do need them not to win by too much!). Bulldogs could be in the same boat as Carlton if we manage another thrashing or two, but otherwise, we'd need Dogs to lose if percentages stay the same from here on in.

Anyway, according to sportsbet we're better odds for the flag than Freo now which says something about their chances of making it. Hopefully we don't fall over against the bottom 2 sides now that we've finally managed to squeeze ourselves back into the 8!