How stupid must St. Kida and Hawthorn feel?

[The Passenger]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
You honestly think Judd's season has been that good? I've got the feeling most Eagle supporters have been a tad dissapointed with Judd. Surely you must agree that Riewoldt's season was better last season? Judd will great but I think you're over-rating his season to date a little.

He did have a down patch over the last 2 or 3 weeks but if you like our BFWCPOTY voting, you'll see that he never dropped out of the top 11 vote getters for a round (or maybe he did once can't remember).

Judd won't be the most consistent footballer ever - the style he plays won't allow it. As I've said, he like Andrew McLeod. He'll break the game open in a matter of minutes, when he's seemingly cruising along doing nothing.

You can't break open games week in week out, its just not possible. But I do think Judd, once he matures, will do this on a much more consistent basis.

I'm not dissapointed with his season to date at all. I think he has been better than last, but has been abit overshadowed by the huge improvements in Michael Gardiner, Chad Fletcher, Andrew Embley and the arrival of Danny Chick.

Chris Judd too will most likely go through a period of huge improvement, where he will go from talented youngster, to consistent game breaker. That is the point where he will move into the very top echelon of footballers in the country. If he can manage to maintain that for a number of years, then he'll move into the top echelon of footballers of all-time.

If he doesn't go through that period of huge imporvement, which usually occurs in most footballers between the ages of 21 and 23, then he'll be another in the long line of footballers who are incredidbly talented but couldn't quite make that next step. For this category, see Joel Bowden.

Although I'm more inclined to think Judd will fit into the former category because he is so professional and is just that little bit extra talented than most others - whether he maintains it over a number of years is also another matter.

 

[The Passenger]

Originally posted by mouldy_bread

Not that that is his fault, but it'd be nice to see him stick at it for four quarters.

As I've said a number times, don't expect to see Judd putting in 30 possesion games end on end, where he racks up 5 touches every quarter without fail.

He's not that type of player. Thats what Cousins and Fletcher and Kerr are there for.

Judd is the guy who will break the game open with a 10 minute burst.

Different footballers have different styles. In 2002, Andrew McLeod passed the 25 touch mark on just 5 occasions from 23 games, and the year before when he was scintallating 8 times from 23 games.

Judd will be like that, he won't rack up the huge possessions, although occasionally he will, but he'll more be in and out a match, then come alive and tear the others teams heart out when they think they've had him contained.

 

[Chris_Judd]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
You honestly think Judd's season has been that good? I've got the feeling most Eagle supporters have been a tad dissapointed with Judd. Surely you must agree that Riewoldt's season was better last season? Judd will great but I think you're over-rating his season to date a little.

Well... I can honestly say I have seen Judd win a few games off his own boot... where he has taken the game by the scruff of the neck much like McLeod does. Mcleod also goes missing for periods of a game. That is the sort of players they are.

I am yet to see Riewoldt win a game for St Kilda.

As for being disappointed with Judd's season... here are his stats.

Round Date vs.
ROUND 1 29/03/2003 Port Adelaide 26 poss 3 goals
ROUND 2 06/04/2003 Hawthorn 23 poss 1 goal
ROUND 3 12/04/2003 St Kilda 10 poss 2 goals
ROUND 4 20/04/2003 Adelaide 24 poss
ROUND 5 27/04/2003 Fremantle 20 poss 1 goal
ROUND 6 03/05/2003 Melbourne 17 poss 1 goal
ROUND 7 10/05/2003 Geelong 18 poss 1 goal
ROUND 8 17/05/2003 Collingwood 15 poss 3 goals
ROUND 9 24/05/2003 Richmond 19 poss
ROUND 10 01/06/2003 Essendon 19 poss 1 goal
ROUND 11 08/06/2003 Western Bulldogs 20 poss
ROUND 12 15/06/2003 Brisbane Lions 17 poss 5 goals

How can u be disappointed with a 19 year old midfielder who has 18 goals and averaging nearly 20 possessions a game in his 34th game of AFL.... and apparantly "goes missing" for half a game.

 

[Kenny_01]

Originally posted by Black Thunder
He did have a down patch over the last 2 or 3 weeks but if you like our BFWCPOTY voting, you'll see that he never dropped out of the top 11 vote getters for a round (or maybe he did once can't remember).

Judd won't be the most consistent footballer ever - the style he plays won't allow it. As I've said, he like Andrew McLeod. He'll break the game open in a matter of minutes, when he's seemingly cruising along doing nothing.

You can't break open games week in week out, its just not possible. But I do think Judd, once he matures, will do this on a much more consistent basis.

I'm not dissapointed with his season to date at all. I think he has been better than last, but has been abit overshadowed by the huge improvements in Michael Gardiner, Chad Fletcher, Andrew Embley and the arrival of Danny Chick.

See, that's the thing. Riewoldt was easily Saints best player. He won the B&F didn't he, and also lead the Saints in Brownlow votes. He was a 2nd year player. Now I'm sure there have been plenty of other players in the history of the game that have had a similar impact in their 2nd years. Now while Judd has been pretty impressive, do you honestly think he has had more impact than any other 2nd year player? I'm just saying that there have been others on your team that have played better than him and had more impact (Gardiner, Wirrpunda, Fletcher, Embley, Ph. Matera, Cousins). Now considering he has been the 7th or 8th best player (IMO) on your side this year, do you think that is a greater impact than nearly every 2nd year player in over 100 years of football?

 

[Kenny_01]

Originally posted by Chris_Judd
Well... I can honestly say I have seen Judd win a few games off his own boot... where he has taken the game by the scruff of the neck much like McLeod does. Mcleod also goes missing for periods of a game. That is the sort of players they are.

I am yet to see Riewoldt win a game for St Kilda.

As for being disappointed with Judd's season... here are his stats.

Round Date vs.
ROUND 1 29/03/2003 Port Adelaide 26 poss 3 goals
ROUND 2 06/04/2003 Hawthorn 23 poss 1 goal
ROUND 3 12/04/2003 St Kilda 10 poss 2 goals
ROUND 4 20/04/2003 Adelaide 24 poss
ROUND 5 27/04/2003 Fremantle 20 poss 1 goal
ROUND 6 03/05/2003 Melbourne 17 poss 1 goal
ROUND 7 10/05/2003 Geelong 18 poss 1 goal
ROUND 8 17/05/2003 Collingwood 15 poss 3 goals
ROUND 9 24/05/2003 Richmond 19 poss
ROUND 10 01/06/2003 Essendon 19 poss 1 goal
ROUND 11 08/06/2003 Western Bulldogs 20 poss
ROUND 12 15/06/2003 Brisbane Lions 17 poss 5 goals

How can u be disappointed with a 19 year old midfielder who has 18 goals and averaging nearly 20 possessions a game in his 34th game of AFL.... and apparantly "goes missing" for half a game.

I'm not dissapointed with him at all. He has been good. But you sort of got the feeling Eagle supporters were a bit dissapointed in the middle few weeks because he wasn't having the impact he was capable of. There were a couple of threads on their board about him. Now they are decent stats, but are they the stats of the best 2nd year AFL player, ever?

 

[The Passenger]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
See, that's the thing. Riewoldt was easily Saints best player. He won the B&F didn't he, and also lead the Saints in Brownlow votes. He was a 2nd year player. Now I'm sure there have been plenty of other players in the history of the game that have had a similar impact in their 2nd years. Now while Judd has been pretty impressive, do you honestly think he has had more impact than any other 2nd year player? I'm just saying that there have been others on your team that have played better than him and had more impact (Gardiner, Wirrpunda, Fletcher, Embley, Ph. Matera, Cousins). Now considering he has been the 7th or 8th best player (IMO) on your side this year, do you think that is a greater impact than nearly every 2nd year player in over 100 years of football?

greater impact?? of course not.

I'm basing my argument on actually being a better footballer. A better footballer doesn't always have the bigger impact.

It's also got to be put into context as well.

The Saints we're a mess last year. Once again, an absolute rabble, which fielded a very young team. They finished second last.

The Eagles are second currently, so making an impact in that team in far harder than making an impact in the second last team, especially given the Saints playing so many youngsters, there was always a big chance the best and fairest was going to go to which ever the best youngster was for them, which was clearly Riewoldt.

I will also say we've been blessed with three of the best players to come around in a long time, and in essence, I think you can put Riewoldt along with Matty Pavlich, as being 3 guys who are clearly the biggest talents in the game, and all could go on to be out and out legends of the game.

I remember doing a thing at the start of the year, where I put who I thought were going to be the best players in the competition in 2008. Now that is premature, but it was just an excercise to do, and obviousbly taking into account all things being equal, assuming no superstar draft comes along.

Basically, if I was a betting man, who would I feel most comfortable as being the best footballers in the AFL in 5 years time. Judd, Pavlich and Riewoldt were 1,2 and 3, and a clear way in front of number 4. (I think I put Simon Black down there).

yes, I do know its stupid and pointless to predict who the best footballers would be five years from now, but it is an interesting exercise, and I garuantee every one has thought about it at least once, but just not bothered to put pen to paper like I did. So yea, basically I'm saying stop being a knob and taking it one week at a time get out and have some fun

P.S. If I can find the list I did I'll put it in here. I remember thinking that it shows just how much talent there is around at the moment.

 

[The Passenger]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
I'm not dissapointed with him at all. He has been good. But you sort of got the feeling Eagle supporters were a bit dissapointed in the middle few weeks because he wasn't having the impact he was capable of. There were a couple of threads on their board about him. Now they are decent stats, but are they the stats of the best 2nd year AFL player, ever?

as I've said many a times, Judd is a McLeod type player, and hence stats will be very decieving when it comes to him.

If you went on stats, Wayne Campbell would be on of the best footballers to ever pull on boots.


But yea, a few fans were disapointed because he wasn't having the impact that we had seen him for a few weeks. Its all patience though, Some people do get a bit carried away and expect him to do what he did against Brisbane every week for four quarters. If he (or anyone) could do that, then they'd be so far and away the best footballers ever, they'd probably change the name of the game to Chris Judd Rules.

People's expectations go abit to high because they see the flair of Judd and McLeod, with the consistency of Harvey and Voss, and they think well if Judd can do that against Brisbane, why couldn't he do it every week.

Well the simple answer is no one can.

 

[mouldy_bread]

Well the simple answer is no one can.

True, but I'll keep wishing

 

[The Passenger]

Originally posted by mouldy_bread
True, but I'll keep wishing

yea, we all will, and I know someone is going to turn around and say, well Wayne Carey or Gary Ablett or Tony Lockett or Bob Skilton or **insert some other legends name** did those types of things every game.


So I'm replying to that comment before anyone can be bothered to post it.

No, they didn't do it week in week out. If they did then they would have never played in a losing side. Those guys did it more consistently than others, which is what made them great, but they didn't do it week in week out.

 

[Ugle]

Originally posted by Becker
Hawks fans are happy with Hodge, Saints fans are happy with Ball, and West Coast fans are happy with Judd. Nobody would be feeling silly, except maybe the person who lodged this post.

Haha I know it hurts.

Judd was the dominant player in the private school comps for many years through high school including Year 12.

Only a fool would think Hodge and Ball were better than him.

They get what they deserve. Two players who cant even make it on the track regularly.

 

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by Chris_Judd


I am yet to see Riewoldt win a game for St Kilda.

Your credibilty on all things St Kilda has just gone out the door If your going to troll us, at least have the common decency to watch a game or 2.

 

[Chris_Judd]

Originally posted by Falchoon
Your credibilty on all things St Kilda has just gone out the door If your going to troll us, at least have the common decency to watch a game or 2.

Well cmon then. Name 1 game... where Riewoldt has basically won the game for St Kilda in 5 mins of football like Judd did on the weekend. I'm waiting.

 

[Aussie Jones18]

That's the point. Riewoldt plays the game out Judd plays in bursts.
So there's your answer there.

 

[Big Boss]

Originally posted by Chris_Judd
Well cmon then. Name 1 game... where Riewoldt has basically won the game for St Kilda in 5 mins of football like Judd did on the weekend. I'm waiting.

You won by 11 goals!! How the hell did Judd win it for you?
I'd take Riewoldt EASILY!!!!!!!!

 

[The Passenger]

Originally posted by Chris_Judd
Well cmon then. Name 1 game... where Riewoldt has basically won the game for St Kilda in 5 mins of football like Judd did on the weekend. I'm waiting.

Once again I'm being forced to bring up player styles.

Riewoldt is a four quarter KPP player - Key Positions Players by their nature won't be able to win a game in 10 minutes of football for two reasons:

1 - Its very hard for a KP backman to win a game off their own boot, because their job is to shut another man out of the game.

2 - KP forwards rely on winning the game through sufficient supply from the midfield.

Riewoldt probably did win a game or two on his own back, although it would've been hard as the Saints didn't win many as a team, but he wouldn't have and probably never will do it in 5 minutes, for the exact 2 reasons I mentioned above.

 

[The Passenger]

Originally posted by Big Boss
You won by 11 goals!! How the hell did Judd win it for you?
I'd take Riewoldt EASILY!!!!!!!!

Judd didn't win it, I actually don'tt like the term a player winning a game, because they don't.

But certain players do break a game open, and that is what Judd did on Sunday.

We got into a great position. 4-5 goals up, but against Brisbane they were far from out of it.

5 minutes later, they go to half time 8 goals down. The game is virtually over from there.

 

[TheRealBuzz]

Tim Watson has a lot to answer for. He and Gerald Healy have started all this Chris Judd pandemonium.

The bloke is going to be a very, very good footballer, but you'd think he was the second coming of Christ with the way they go on about him.

Gardiner, Fletcher, Cousins, Embley and even Rowan Jones have all been in better form than Judd this year (imho). Kerr has been down on form, but I also reckon he's a better prospect.

But, I guess those blokes aren't from Victoria.

 

[Winmar]

Re: why

Originally posted by morgoth
If Locket was so good why did you trade him? Why did you climb the ladder after that? Judd tore them apart yesterday and his team won. He is not a one dimensional full forward.

Morgoth, your comments just get sillier and sillier. Were you following football at the time he quit the club? Did you ever see him play???

 

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by Chris_Judd
Well cmon then. Name 1 game... where Riewoldt has basically won the game for St Kilda in 5 mins of football like Judd did on the weekend. I'm waiting.

5 minutes of football? The relevance of that?

How about CHB on Goodes in the draw last year, 12 marks 3 votes
Full forward v Melbourne last year 6 goals
Last week at CHF v Brisbane 14 marks 4 goals on Leppitsch

Best stats for a full game

Goals Riewoldt 6 Judd 5
Disposals Riewoldt 24 Judd 26
Marks Riewoldt 14 Judd 6
Hitouts Riewoldt 13 Judd 2
Tackles Riewoldt 7 Judd 7

Originally posted by Chris_Judd
How can u be disappointed with a 19 year old midfielder who has 18 goals and averaging nearly 20 possessions a game in his 34th game of AFL.... and apparantly "goes missing" for half a game.

You wouldn't be, but because you have an obsession -despite a complete ignorance of all things St Kilda- does not make a 20 year old key position player who averages nearly 18 possessions and 8 marks (has taken more marks than anyone!! in the last year and a half) and has 16 goals in his 40th game of football the type of player you'd be wanting to put down.