If Carlton Won't Deal Seriously, What Is The Best Option For You To Take?

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But what you guys aren't getting is you can field as many offer as you want from other clubs, if Judd doesn't want to go to any other club than Carlton, you can't trade him. He then goes into the PSD where i imagine Richmond would take him. We would be left with picks 1 and 3, Richmond get Judd and West Coast get nothing for the best player in the comp.

Seems to me there would be 3 teams and only 2 winners.
And therein lies our point.

Nowhere, at any point, has Judd or Connors come out and said that Carlton are the only club Judd wants to play for. The only person to say that is Swann, so it means bupkis.

The word is preferred. Judd's statements have all used the word. It means that while he would like to end up at Carlton, he's realist enough to know that he may end up elsewhere. The fact that Connors has said more than once that Judd accepts the fact he may end up in the PSD reinforces that point.

Carlton hold most of the aces here. But not all of them by a long shot.

The other thing to take into account is Nisbett and Swann. Any Eagles person here will tell you that Nisbett is untouchable. The only way he could possibly lose his job is if he was sleeping with Gooding's wife and daughter on the side. The Board will back him to the hilt and beyond with whatever decision he makes about a trade or not. He will not suffer in the slightest if we get nothing.

Swann is a brand new CEO, answering to a brand new President, one who has less than privately told him that his first major task is to get Judd. He doesnt quite have that same security.

Carlton should end up with Judd. They are certainly in the strong position to do so. But they need to watch that they dont blow it.
 
But how, Heatley Stand? You keep avoiding the central question. How will you get him in the PSD. This is the central tenet of your argument and you cant tell us how it will happen and what you base your confidence on. Unless you really can show us how you would get him for nothong in PSD you hold no aces and your argument collapses. Carlton supporters saying it over and over doesn't make it true.

If we can't do a deal wiht you Judd will have to accept the fact that he will be playing at a different club, possibly Richmond. Judd can't make us do a deal with carlton any more than we can force carlton to hand over pick1. We don't have to sign. And if we don't he is going to be playing somewhere else next year whether he likes it or not.

Tell us how you will get him in the PSD and why you are so sure or admit your argument is full of holes and you are just having a wet dream.
 
Take the blinkers off and tell me which club has a better offer than #3, #20 and kennedy? If carlton didn't have the #1 pick, west coast will still deal with carlton. No doubt about it.
 

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Well if you believe the media reports, Hustla, which i think do sound accurate it's not even 3, 20 and kennedy that Carlton are offering. It's just 3 and 20. And as west coast have not had official talks with the other clubs we wouldn't know what they are offering. There may have been informal discussions and west coast may have an idea of what they can get out of the other clubs but none of this information has made it's way into the media.

But that is the whole point i was making to Heatley stand. We spoke to carlton first as a courtesy to Judd as he nominated them but we should also speak to the other clubs and see what else is on offer. There will be no early deal because of this. Mid next week at the earliest. We don't have to deal with carlton right now and we should make them sweat it out a bit.

I have no doubt that other clubs will field better offers than 3 and 20. Prominent people at richmond are indicating that 2 and 17 are probably going to be on the table which obviously beats 3 and 20. And i think both ess and melb would be prepared to offer their first round picks and a decent player which would arguably top 3 and 20 depending on who the player is. I think one of the key things with the other clubs is that they need to feel like they are going to be treated like legitimate bidders and can win the auction in the end and that they are not just being used as leverage to drive up carlton's offer. It would be embarrassing for them to start offering up players and then lose the bid and then have to deal with those upset players who might be disgruntled that the club condidered the deal and offered to trade them. They would need to feel that they were right in the auction.

IMHO if west coast goes soliciting offers from the other clubs they will get them and there is a fair chance it will beat 3 and 20. that is what carlton don't want. they want us to get all intimidated by their hollow threats of a cunning PSD plan and just give him over now.
 
"On channel 7 news that Greg swan conceded that Carlton may not take Kreuzer at pick #1, and that nobody is definately penciled in. I reckon if push comes to shove, we will hand that pick over for Juddas. But honestly, if West Coast don't want to give up Judd with out the #1 pick, then what chance did the other three clubs have?"
__________________

Is Carlton Cracking?
 
I don't even care if we don't get pick 1. carlton can keep it if they really want it. But the point is it has to be pick 3 AND something else decent. Either another top 5 draft pick or a player we want from another club. If they don't want to trade pick 1 they will have to find something else of value to us to include in the trade. We don't want Kennedy. If you think he is that great trade him to another club and on trade the top 5 pick you think you can get for him to us. And pick 20 is just almost completely worthless. It has to be pick 3 and something else valuable.

i think Swann and carlton will feel the heat and the clock ticking much more than we will as time passes and no deal is done. They will absolutely panic if we get well into discussions with other clubs and they tsrat to think they might get frozen out. i don't think they have that much leverage at all.
 
But how, Heatley Stand? You keep avoiding the central question. How will you get him in the PSD. This is the central tenet of your argument and you cant tell us how it will happen and what you base your confidence on. Unless you really can show us how you would get him for nothong in PSD you hold no aces and your argument collapses. Carlton supporters saying it over and over doesn't make it true.

If we can't do a deal wiht you Judd will have to accept the fact that he will be playing at a different club, possibly Richmond. Judd can't make us do a deal with carlton any more than we can force carlton to hand over pick1. We don't have to sign. And if we don't he is going to be playing somewhere else next year whether he likes it or not.

Tell us how you will get him in the PSD and why you are so sure or admit your argument is full of holes and you are just having a wet dream.

How is my argument fill of holes the deal is done ... Judd for pick 3 and JK... if you want pick 20 you give us Nikoski... its just about signed off on .. with the pick 20 for Nikoski pending..

And my argument is not full of holes because if you could have got something better you wouldnt be announcing it early in the week as official.

Let the proof be in the pudding...

PS nobody was going to give you more.
Richmond were angling for you to throw him into the PSD so they can have a shot for nothing... we still would have snagged him and your blokes know it..
 
I don't even care if we don't get pick 1. carlton can keep it if they really want it. But the point is it has to be pick 3 AND something else decent. Either another top 5 draft pick or a player we want from another club. If they don't want to trade pick 1 they will have to find something else of value to us to include in the trade. We don't want Kennedy. If you think he is that great trade him to another club and on trade the top 5 pick you think you can get for him to us. And pick 20 is just almost completely worthless. It has to be pick 3 and something else valuable.

i think Swann and carlton will feel the heat and the clock ticking much more than we will as time passes and no deal is done. They will absolutely panic if we get well into discussions with other clubs and they tsrat to think they might get frozen out. i don't think they have that much leverage at all.
Please believe there is no clock ticking on us... its the other way around.

And youre lucky you got JK with pick 3..... you would have got a kick n the head if you were dealing with Collingwood and Richmond...

Nisbett knows it... the deal is going aheaD...
 
How is my argument fill of holes the deal is done ... Judd for pick 3 and JK... if you want pick 20 you give us Nikoski... its just about signed off on .. with the pick 20 for Nikoski pending..

And my argument is not full of holes because if you could have got something better you wouldnt be announcing it early in the week as official.

Let the proof be in the pudding...

PS nobody was going to give you more.
Richmond were angling for you to throw him into the PSD so they can have a shot for nothing... we still would have snagged him and your blokes know it..

Nikoski for 20

Tell him he's dreaming
 
Nikoski for 20

Tell him he's dreaming

Which means the deal will be 3 and JK for Judd...

Now Nikoski was a name that was thrown up yesterday in talks..

Yu guys have conceded pick one.. its not coming.
The sticking point as i understand it is pick 20 to be thrown in nw as well.. and we have refused unless Nikoski goes the other way.

Basically the guts has been sorted between the two clubs.. theres a bit going on for pubic consumption... but nobody was going to give you more..

You were going to get bananas from Collingwood and Richmond wanna take a chance at him in the PSD...
 
Which means the deal will be 3 and JK for Judd...

Now Nikoski was a name that was thrown up yesterday in talks..

Yu guys have conceded pick one.. its not coming.
The sticking point as i understand it is pick 20 to be thrown in nw as well.. and we have refused unless Nikoski goes the other way.

Basically the guts has been sorted between the two clubs.. theres a bit going on for pubic consumption... but nobody was going to give you more..

You were going to get bananas from Collingwood and Richmond wanna take a chance at him in the PSD...

Mate i'll take my chances & wait to see what pans out, rather then read your uninformed crap.

Nikoski for pick 20 will not happen!
 
Nicoski just signed a new contract with the eagles. he has not asked to be traded and he will not be going anywhere.

And again you pass up the opportnity to give us an explanation of your cunning plan to get Judd in the pre-season draft. Either explain how you justify your confidence or admit it is a load of s***.

And no deal is done. The eagles won't accept carlton's crap offer without testing the waters at the other clubs. Would you if you were in their shoes? They will explore every possible avenue of getting a better deal before they will accept that.

If a deal was done why would carlton and Judd's manager feel the need to publicly put pressure on the eagles to do a deal by Tuesday? If a deal had already been done this would be a formality. They are getting worried that the longer it drags on the more chance that no deal will get done with carlton. And the more time the eagles use the more likely they will be able to extract another offer from a different club and the whole thing will start to get very messy and complicated for carlton and Judd. WC will then rightly insist carlton match it or no deal and will take it right through ti friday afternoon if necessary. Carlton definately don't want the opportunity for other clubs to make counter-offers.

It's in your interests to try and pressure WC and convince them to wrap a deal up now and just accept whatever. It's in WC interests to keep it going for as long as possible and open the thing up to competition. I have never seen the eagles hierarchy bow to pressure from anyone. Your crap offer will still be there next Friday afternoon if we really want it. It's not going anywhere. As will other clubs become more and more interested by Friday afternoon and think they are still in with a shout if no deal has been done by that stage with carlton. You will feel the pressure from the passage of time with no deal done than we will. We really have nothing to lose except pick 3 and that will still be there on the table at 1.55pm friday afternoon.

Again i ask you, tell us how you will get Judd in the PSD. EWhat do you base all your claims on, Heatley Stand?
 
I am sure the name Nicoski was thrown up by carlton not the eagles and i'm also sure carlton would have been told to f*** right off. There is no chance of you getting Nicoski. Pick 20 in a shallow draft for Nicoski. You are absolutely dreaming. And the eagles definately don't have to trade him. He is under contract and is a West Aussie. I am absolutely bloody sure we will get a better deal than pick 3 and 20 for Nicoski and Judd. You have no credibility left after posting rubbish like that.

And don't forget that Ess and Melb made judd's short list aswell. He is obvioulsy not completely averse to the prospect of playing for them if the money is right and carlton is not an option. And i believe hat Richmonds offer is genuine. If the eagles accepted Richmonds offer on say tuesday afternoon and it came time to sign the papers, what would Richmond say? Stall for time? Are you serious? You think they are making phantom offers to us so Judd goes into the PSD? That is lunacy aswell. If Richmond make an offer and the eagles accept Richmond would need to sign off on the deal shortly afterwards? Do you think they are going to stall and the eagles will just lose track of time and forget to get them to sign off on the deal untill fater 2pm friday? Making phantom offers would not get Judd into the PSD.
 

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All this talk of Pick 3 and Kennedy is making me spew.
I hear "the best offer you will get", "the deal is done".
The last offer i heard of from melbourne was pick 4, pick 9 (result of trade of James Frawley to saints, and our second round pick as well. I would have thought that would beat the carlton offer by a fair margain.
 
I am sure the name Nicoski was thrown up by carlton not the eagles and i'm also sure carlton would have been told to f*** right off. There is no chance of you getting Nicoski. Pick 20 in a shallow draft for Nicoski. You are absolutely dreaming. And the eagles definately don't have to trade him. He is under contract and is a West Aussie. I am absolutely bloody sure we will get a better deal than pick 3 and 20 for Nicoski and Judd. You have no credibility left after posting rubbish like that.

And don't forget that Ess and Melb made judd's short list aswell. He is obvioulsy not completely averse to the prospect of playing for them if the money is right and carlton is not an option. And i believe hat Richmonds offer is genuine. If the eagles accepted Richmonds offer on say tuesday afternoon and it came time to sign the papers, what would Richmond say? Stall for time? Are you serious? You think they are making phantom offers to us so Judd goes into the PSD? That is lunacy aswell. If Richmond make an offer and the eagles accept Richmond would need to sign off on the deal shortly afterwards? Do you think they are going to stall and the eagles will just lose track of time and forget to get them to sign off on the deal untill fater 2pm friday? Making phantom offers would not get Judd into the PSD.

I think one of us will be left with egg on our face... i know its not going to be me....

Ill let you go on and on...

and yes Nicoskis name may have been brought up by us..... but its just told you bokes it wont be anything more than 3 and JK.. (who by the way im spewing about)...and youll find the deal is just about signed off on...

Can we wait a day or 2 before you get on your little platform???

Like i said we can revisit this soon... and how do i know???
Well if you guys wanted to let him go in the PSD because you were confident you ca screw us... the deal would go all the way down to the wire..on friday... and then he would go into the PSD.

We have more room than Richmond... believe me...
They would have to start sashing contracts before we would have to.

Nisbett knows it ... and he knows under the circumstances... ts the best deal youre going to get....

Richmond and Collingwood would have really screwed you over.

WC and Carlton have pretty good relations.. and especially before this.

But were not looking at screwing you ... but were not going to go backwards either.

Were offering more than anyone else would have.

Unless you wanted pick 4... and some shit pick from Melbourne.

But then again , like us... and most cubs .. Kreuzer , Cothin and Morton are rated a cut above what comes after them
 
All this talk of Pick 3 and Kennedy is making me spew.
I hear "the best offer you will get", "the deal is done".
The last offer i heard of from melbourne was pick 4, pick 9 (result of trade of James Frawley to saints, and our second round pick as well. I would have thought that would beat the carlton offer by a fair margain.



Who said MElbourne were trading Frawley????

:confused:


They never did... it was the media... the same people who were saying Judd was at Melbourne.

Oh Frawleys uncle played there... lets join the dots and throw it out there...

I understand that youll be shortchaged... Judd is a superstar ..but unlike soccer... you wont get 50 million euro transfer as compo..

Unfortunately the SYSTEM limits what you can give up without going forwards.

We wouldnt chase Judd if we wernt looking to go up the ladder...

I agree its a crap system.

We will lose players too... we wont always get ample compensation

Believe it or not im spewing were losing JK.. you will get yourselves a 10 year CHF there... and probably Morton who i know a couple of clubs at least rate as number 1. Including the Dogs Scotty Clayton who i had a conversation about him 2 weeks ago.

Youve done well long term.. youve lost short term.
 
Who said the deal is done on pick 3 and kennedy? The same media? Or just you?
 
Who said the deal is done on pick 3 and kennedy? The same media? Or just you?

My sources,, that are pretty much on the oney when it comes to all things Carlton and a track record that goes back a few years....;)

You guys are actually holding out for 20 from us not 1 (as well) weve asked for a player like Nicoski for 20... therefore telling you it wont happen for just Judd...

So JK and 3 is the guts of the deal... 1 is out of the picture.
You dont want him to go to the PSD...
Noone can top the deal...
 
The eagles don't want Kennedy. He may end up being a good player. I am travelling europe and so haven't seen enough of him to form an opinion. But we can't give him a game as we have enough young KPP. And if we did give him a game we would lose another one of our young KPP players at end of next season due to lack of opportunity. We wouldn't really gain anything. And i do notice that a vast majority of eagles fans don't rate him as anything special. They are saying a poor man's Travis Cloke.

And we will see who ends up with egg on their face. I still think a deal will get done with carlton but it won't get done before tuesday/wednesday at the earliest and it won't get done for just pick 3 or 3 and 20. And you definately won't get Nicoski for pick 20. It would be bad enough to lose Judd for nothing. We will not lose another senior player, who by the way is one of the players the eagles will be looking to run through the midfield part time to help fill the void in the midfield from losing Judd, for nothing aswell.

Just because carlton asked for him doesn't mean "the deal is done". The eagles will not trade him. Especially with Wirra and Braun nearing retirement age aswell.

And we may have had good relations with carlton but we don't have good relations with Swann who is the prick behind all of this and all of those attempted dodgy dealings with other clubs from collingwood in last 5 years (most of which failed to end up the said player getting to collingwood, i might add). It just wasted the other clubs time and the players aswell. the man is a slimeball.

And i think Richmond could re-arrange to accomodate Judd for a season if necessary. Carlton will not get him in the PSD.
 
The eagles don't want Kennedy. He may end up being a good player. I am travelling europe and so haven't seen enough of him to form an opinion. But we can't give him a game as we have enough young KPP. And if we did give him a game we would lose another one of our young KPP players at end of next season due to lack of opportunity. We wouldn't really gain anything. And i do notice that a vast majority of eagles fans don't rate him as anything special. They are saying a poor man's Travis Cloke.

And we will see who ends up with egg on their face. I still think a deal will get done with carlton but it won't get done before tuesday/wednesday at the earliest and it won't get done for just pick 3 or 3 and 20. And you definately won't get Nicoski for pick 20. It would be bad enough to lose Judd for nothing. We will not lose another senior player, who by the way is one of the players the eagles will be looking to run through the midfield part time to help fill the void in the midfield from losing Judd, for nothing aswell.

Just because carlton asked for him doesn't mean "the deal is done". The eagles will not trade him. Especially with Wirra and Braun nearing retirement age aswell.

And we may have had good relations with carlton but we don't have good relations with Swann who is the prick behind all of this and all of those attempted dodgy dealings with other clubs from collingwood in last 5 years (most of which failed to end up the said player getting to collingwood, i might add). It just wasted the other clubs time and the players aswell. the man is a slimeball.

And i think Richmond could re-arrange to accomodate Judd for a season if necessary. Carlton will not get him in the PSD.

It sounds like you threw down the gauntlet to me...:thumbsu::)

Lets see shall we???;)
 
What other big events from previous years at carlton has your source accuartely predicted? That carlton would finish at the bottom of the ladder? That pagan would get sacked? That Whitnall would come back from post season as big as a house? That Fev would embarrass the club and himself again at some point during the season with his oafish behaviour?

Tell us seriously why these unamed sources have any credibility?

You have put on record that a deal will get done this weekend and that it will be for just pick 3 unless nicoski is involved, in which case we get pick 20 aswell. Is that right?

I am saying no deal before tuesday at earliest, that we will get more than pick 3 and that if Nicoski won't be involved in the trade and if he is involved in a trade we will be getting a lot more than pick 20 for him.

The chances of getting a player at pick 20 in this draft who turns out to be better thanNicoski are about 1 in 50, i reckon. Nicoski is borderline All Australian material if he can play a full season uninterupted by injury.
 
What other big events from previous years at carlton has your source accuartely predicted? That carlton would finish at the bottom of the ladder? That pagan would get sacked? That Whitnall would come back from post season as big as a house? That Fev would embarrass the club and himself again at some point during the season with his oafish behaviour?

Tell us seriously why these unamed sources have any credibility?

You have put on record that a deal will get done this weekend and that it will be for just pick 3 unless nicoski is involved, in which case we get pick 20 aswell. Is that right?

I am saying no deal before tuesday at earliest, that we will get more than pick 3 and that if Nicoski won't be involved in the trade and if he is involved in a trade we will be getting a lot more than pick 20 for him.

The chances of getting a player at pick 20 in this draft who turns out to be better thanNicoski are about 1 in 50, i reckon. Nicoski is borderline All Australian material if he can play a full season uninterupted by injury.


Im sorry youre bitter.. but thats whats happening.

Instead of havig a go at me.. just wait and see what happens...
 
We shall see. I will be unhappy but i'll take my hat off to you if you are correct. But i think you are very wrong. I don't see why the eagles would trade Nicoski and i don't see where you think the leverage to force us to do a deal with you in your timeframe and on your terms is coming from. it's not in our interests to do an early deal without talking to the other clubs.
 
We shall see. I will be unhappy but i'll take my hat off to you if you are correct. But i think you are very wrong. I don't see why the eagles would trade Nicoski and i don't see where you think the leverage to force us to do a deal with you in your timeframe and on your terms is coming from. it's not in our interests to do an early deal without talking to the other clubs.

You get hints on what i said in todays newspapers... like i saod the deal has been done... because there isnt much there for you blokes from anyone.
The Melbourne thing was media... unless you were after Russell Robertson or smething crap....and pick 4(youre rrecruiters rated the first 3 players as a cut abve the thers)

Richmond and Collingwoodwere going to screw you.
We could ahve frozen you out.
The rest is for pubic consumption... so you can be shown you did your best.
The 2 clubs are dealing realistically and respectfully to each other and Chris.

Unfortunately like i explained earlier.. the system doesnt support a fair trade for a player like Judd
 
Don't use the word respect and Chris Judd together in a sentence again. he will probably screw you eventually aswell. On reflection it is probably irrational to blame carlton for doing what is in their self interest even though Swann is a grade A slimeball. But i blame Judd for putting in this position where he nominated one club. It's not over yet though. Still think no deal untill Tuesday afternoon at the earliest.
 
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