Ins and Outs against the Bulldogs ....

[DannyJ]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

In: Taylor, Crawford

Out: Renouf, (I don't know?)

Probably Youngy if everyone is fit.

At halftime Dew had the second most "metres gained" in the match against Carlton. Something that will be needed in any game we play.

Murphy is a defensive player and on team balance is likely to remain.

Guerra and Ellis have perfomed very well over the course of the year. I think Goo is a weak link defensively, but is a vital cog in our set up overall.

Young is likely to go, unless Brown/Williams one of them doesn't come up. Youngy as our 23 rd man is sensational to have.

 

[Blasé]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

In: Taylor, Crawford

Out: Renouf, (I don't know?)

Probably Youngy if everyone is fit.

At halftime Dew had the second most "metres gained" in the match against Carlton. Something that will be needed in any game we play.

Murphy is a defensive player and on team balance is likely to remain.

Guerra and Ellis have perfomed very well over the course of the year. I think Goo is a weak link defensively, but is a vital cog in our set up overall.

Young is likely to go, unless Brown/Williams one of them doesn't come up. Youngy as our 23 rd man is sensational to have.

i can't see how he's a vital cog. i think it has that appearance because we have loose men down back and that's where he gets his cheap posessions.

the sad thing is, is that's whole reason why we appear buddy conscious. we haven't any of the midfielders to push further upfield to be attacking options because our setup is to always have loose floating players in the backline to cover for the incomptence of players like goo and ladson defensively. subsequently, we the mids get to about the middle of the ground after rebounding off half back, we normally have to look for a key posittion forward target. the opposition know this, and setup to have a loose player nearby. but we just don't have that alternative option midfield/small running player to make it less predictable.

if our setup was traditional man on man finals football, like geelong, then we'd be far more difficult to beat. but instead, we will probably stick to this zoning football, because it appears that we're really clever and we'll probably not quite make it. then everyone will say 'we need to trade to get another defender' and we'll probably fall into that trap and find out that there isn't much out there. the reality is, we have a defender called brown, and despite being injured, he's still far better defensively than goo. you put him there and then a midfielder option becomes created.

as i said before, goo was tossed aside by port and the saints. it wasn't clever recruiting. by no means has he been a loss, because we used a 3rd pick in the pre-season draft and he's been valuable in having experience and holding a snr spot to allow the youngsters to improve. but we're at a similar stage to those other clubs that tossed him aside. there's a difference between wanting to be competitive, where we were, and wanting to win a premiership, which what i want and i'm not sure if some here want that.

certainly don't delist him, but when you've few injuries and good depth, we need to be selecting our best team for finals and he's not in that. i'm not sure whether it's correct to write him off, because i think he does at times make decent defensive efforts, but he really needs to be desperate for his spot in the team, and currently he seems to be an automatic selection which he definitely plays in that manner.

 

[burner1]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

When hodge is in the backline goo is redundent as hodge sets up play as is the guy everyone wants kicking out of the defensive 50.
Goo is there for his ability to kick those 50-60m passe on to a running players chest that slices teams open. We don;t really want croad, brown or murphy setting up play from the d50 and while gilham, birchall and ladson are all good kicks, none of them have the penetration of goo/hodge.
Goo's position is safe until we decide to play hodge permantely as a backman, which wont happen or we find someone with awesome skills who can defend better or goo's defensive efforts become diabolical.

 

[lethalselbow]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

Sheeeshh.... there's some real tripe in thread.

 

[macdaddio]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

I dont understand some on this board , when we had goo out of the side every one was saying we need him he is so important to our stucture now he is back and we are winning some are saying he is not in our best 22.
Some people need to appreciate what we have coz if it wasnt for this current group including goo and young and murphy we wouldnt be sitting out right 2nd...

 

[DannyJ]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

i can't see how he's a vital cog. i think it has that appearance because we have loose men down back and that's where he gets his cheap posessions.

the sad thing is, is that's whole reason why we appear buddy conscious. we haven't any of the midfielders to push further upfield to be attacking options because our setup is to always have loose floating players in the backline to cover for the incomptence of players like goo and ladson defensively. subsequently, we the mids get to about the middle of the ground after rebounding off half back, we normally have to look for a key posittion forward target. the opposition know this, and setup to have a loose player nearby. but we just don't have that alternative option midfield/small running player to make it less predictable.

if our setup was traditional man on man finals football, like geelong, then we'd be far more difficult to beat. but instead, we will probably stick to this zoning football, because it appears that we're really clever and we'll probably not quite make it. then everyone will say 'we need to trade to get another defender' and we'll probably fall into that trap and find out that there isn't much out there. the reality is, we have a defender called brown, and despite being injured, he's still far better defensively than goo. you put him there and then a midfielder option becomes created.

as i said before, goo was tossed aside by port and the saints. it wasn't clever recruiting. by no means has he been a loss, because we used a 3rd pick in the pre-season draft and he's been valuable in having experience and holding a snr spot to allow the youngsters to improve. but we're at a similar stage to those other clubs that tossed him aside. there's a difference between wanting to be competitive, where we were, and wanting to win a premiership, which what i want and i'm not sure if some here want that.

certainly don't delist him, but when you've few injuries and good depth, we need to be selecting our best team for finals and he's not in that. i'm not sure whether it's correct to write him off, because i think he does at times make decent defensive efforts, but he really needs to be desperate for his spot in the team, and currently he seems to be an automatic selection which he definitely plays in that manner.

He does get cheap possesions I agree, but when he does get the ball he is very good with it. He kicks it 50-60m up the ground and releases our midfield to run where they want as he will hit the target over that distance. Goo, Hodge, and fully fit Dew are the three that do this and Birchall. If say Murphy get's cheap ball on our HBF, the opposition have much more to work with as they know he will only kick 30m under pressure to ensure hitting up a target.

Goo is in our best 18. We need a Tuck or Whitecross to dislodge him so we can be better, but in 2008 he is required and pretty important. I do think there are a couple of players in the side that need to go, to match Geelong and be the best team, Goo being one of them, but in saying that we are an outside chance of winning the flag this year if a number of things go our way.

Geelong don't play man on man. Their defence always has 3 on 1, 4 on 1 situations and is a reason why they are so good.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

I believe that Gu plays exactly as he is instructed to play and therefore is in no danger of losing his spot.

 

[Davo23]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

i can't see how he's a vital cog. i think it has that appearance because we have loose men down back and that's where he gets his cheap posessions.

certainly don't delist him, but when you've few injuries and good depth, we need to be selecting our best team for finals and he's not in that. i'm not sure whether it's correct to write him off, because i think he does at times make decent defensive efforts, but he really needs to be desperate for his spot in the team, and currently he seems to be an automatic selection which he definitely plays in that manner.

Ha ha, cheap possessions !
The nonsense that is written about Guerra!

Bookmark this: he is an ESSENTIAL part of our defence - believe it or not, he will NOT BE DROPPED, and no-one at the club takes notice of internet footy experts like you.

Defence is equal portions of stopping the opposition and rebounding effectively into attack.
Guerra is good at the former, and brilliant at the latter.

Try to keep up - it's not 1988 any more - we are in the year 2008 ...


.

 

[stick]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

As I mentioned in an earlier post is there a match-up for Gilham?? Do we need two tall defenders against the dogs? Murphy, Aker, Welsh, Johnson, Hahn are all mid-sized. Croad can go to Minson. If we went without Gilham it would enable us to pick both Crawf and Young, providing us with more run and carry through the middle.

Blase, you've copped some flack for your post, but I agree with you. However I don't think the coaching staff do. If Crawf is right to go he will defintely come in. Unfortunately I think the unlucky bloke will be Young.

 

[hawkstars]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

Whoever the coaching staff think. They have a done a fantastic job all year and have been spot on all the time.

 

[DuckBilledDazza]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

In - Craw, Stokes, Dowler, Tuck, Kennedy, Thorp, Morton, McGlynn, Clarke

Out - Mitchell (Rested), Hodge (Rested), Sewell (Rested), Lewis (Rested), Bateman (Rested), Franklin (Rested), Roughead (Rested), Rioli (Rested), Young (Omitted)

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

As I mentioned in an earlier post is there a match-up for Gilham?? Do we need two tall defenders against the dogs? Murphy, Aker, Welsh, Johnson, Hahn are all mid-sized. Croad can go to Minson. If we went without Gilham it would enable us to pick both Crawf and Young, providing us with more run and carry through the middle.

Blase, you've copped some flack for your post, but I agree with you. However I don't think the coaching staff do. If Crawf is right to go he will defintely come in. Unfortunately I think the unlucky bloke will be Young.

We won't be dropping Gilham.

Has played 50 games straight for the Hawks and, barring injury or suspension, he'll play a lot more consecutive games.

Gilham has been asked to play full back when he doesn't quite have the physical attributes of a full-back. He'll be keen to redeem himself after Scott Welsh cut him up in last year's elimination final.

He'll be fine.

 

[Davo23]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

In - Craw, Stokes, Dowler, Tuck, Kennedy, Thorp, Morton, McGlynn, Clarke

Out - Mitchell (Rested), Hodge (Rested), Sewell (Rested), Lewis (Rested), Bateman (Rested), Franklin (Rested), Roughead (Rested), Rioli (Rested), Young (Omitted)

And what about Croad - he should be rested, too.


.

 

[Satchmo]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

In - Craw, Stokes, Dowler, Tuck, Kennedy, Thorp, Morton, McGlynn, Clarke

Out - Mitchell (Rested), Hodge (Rested), Sewell (Rested), Lewis (Rested), Bateman (Rested), Franklin (Rested), Roughead (Rested), Rioli (Rested), Young (Omitted)

Good idea except Dowler and McGlynn are injured so you will have to go with Dawson and Whitecross.

 

[wallyt99]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

He kicks it 50-60m up the ground and releases our midfield to run where they want as he will hit the target over that distance.

NB: This is Guerra, not Young. Guerras footy brain is top notch.....Young often does not choose the best option.

 

[Jayd19]

Young must play. His run out of defence is critical.

I also think Dew has to play given his finals experience and his big body.

The question is who do we bring in for Campbell Brown if he doesn't get up? We don't really have anyone else to play his role.

I don't want Stokes to play. I thought he was ordinary on the big stage against Geelong and might be a year or two off having the composure needed for a big final.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

I believe that Gu plays exactly as he is instructed to play and therefore is in no danger of losing his spot.

A very good point, Merv.

There are many peoples who do not consider the words team instructions when assessing individual players' roles and form in a team.

 

[DuckBilledDazza]

Re: Ins + Outs against the Bulldogs

And what about Croad - he should be rested, too.


.

Good idea except Dowler and McGlynn are injured so you will have to go with Dawson and Whitecross.

Noted - And agree totally!

 

[Hawk-in-syd]

In- Taylor and Crawf providing he is really fit. If he's not right we can't have him and Dew in the same side.

Outs- Renouf and .....
This is where is gets tuff.
Young 11 goals 9ga shouldn't be dropped. We look a more potent side with his run, carry and long kicking. Bateman can't do it all, Crawf is hit and miss, will he be able to run this week? Dew doesn't provide any run. Avg defensively one-on-one but is a perfect wingman and a 70m player, he provides quick ball to the forwards before other defenders can fill space. He can score goal so he's a must in. Also allows Lewis to move off the wing into the middle and drift forward wher he can use his marking ablilty.
Dew 5 goals 7ga if it wasn't for his experience he'd be the one to go. If Crawfs fit does the experience matter? He's looking slow and heavy. Doesn't seem to be able to use his strength to break tackles, isn't running so doesn't give much drive from HB and not a lot of defensive pressure when forward. Still seems reluctant to go for the 60m kick.
Murph 0 goal 0ga been solid, can play tall and shorter. Reliable disposal, runs a bit but doesn't get much past HBF. Depends on match ups but I think is safe as allows flexibility with Brown.
Goo 0 goals 8ga Avg defensively one-on-one but I think the zone has allot to do with this. Him Birch and laddo are in the awkward transition where they have to play there part in the zone but are the first to get burnt if the ball breaks thru quick. Great kick and decision maker but doesn't provide much run. Will kick and stop most of the time. Could be under instruction??
Birch 2 goals 8ga similar to goo but provides more run. Will kick and follow up
Laddo 2 goals 21ga see Birch but get up into the midfield more.

With Brown and Hodge able to go forward and back I wouldn't be surprised if Goo missed out as we have a few that can play HBF and dispose of the ball well. Depends on match ups. I do think Blasé had some valid points re Goo when we have the flexibility with Brown and Hodge. If Crawf is 100% I'd leave him out (sorry Crawf) and only make the one change with Taylor.

One thing I do know is what makes Geelong such a potent side is the run they get from their defenders. The second they get the ball down back EVERY player starts running toward goal and they don't stop. Thats why they have such a good spread of goals and heaps scored by backs. If we get more goals from the mids and backs to share the load we will be a better side. And that requires hard running from defense. We need players who can do that.

Geel defenders goals and ga
Mackie 11 11
Wojo 7 5
Milburn 6 14
Enright 6 8
Hunt 3 3
Taylor 3 0
Scarlett 0 4

Hard Day for the selectors

 

[stick]

Bear with me whilst I indulge in a bit of self gratification. I didn't get much support for this theory when I raised it early in the week. Seems the coach might have agreed with me. Now all we need is to get X back in that team...

originally posted by stick
As I mentioned in an earlier post is there a match-up for Gilham?? Do we need two tall defenders against the dogs? Murphy, Aker, Welsh, Johnson, Hahn are all mid-sized. Croad can go to Minson. If we went without Gilham it would enable us to pick both Crawf and Young, providing us with more run and carry through the middle.

 

[DESTRUKTOR]

Bear with me whilst I indulge in a bit of self gratification. I didn't get much support for this theory when I raised it early in the week. Seems the coach might have agreed with me. Now all we need is to get X back in that team...

Nothing wrong with a bit of self-gratification, sometimes people care too much about themselves to pass on kudos to others.

 

[debranche]

Bear with me whilst I indulge in a bit of self gratification. I didn't get much support for this theory when I raised it early in the week. Seems the coach might have agreed with me. Now all we need is to get X back in that team...

I think you'll find that the match up for Gilham tonight was a player by the name of Flulike Symptoms.

Otherwise, he would have been in

 

[Blasé]

Bear with me whilst I indulge in a bit of self gratification. I didn't get much support for this theory when I raised it early in the week. Seems the coach might have agreed with me. Now all we need is to get X back in that team...

good call

without doubt it was horses for courses.

i agree that x will be back in the next game and possibly taylor as well.

it's no coincidence that they missed games late in the season. obviously we prefered having fully fit players for those that are on the fringe.

still think goo should be dropped. his defensive skills were very lacking again, but no one seemed to notice because the A graders played well.

the value goo can have in our team is if he plays as a hit man and knocks out the oppositions key playmaker. otherwise he's not in the best 22.

 

[market]

good call

without doubt it was horses for courses.

i agree that x will be back in the next game and possibly taylor as well.

it's no coincidence that they missed games late in the season. obviously we prefered having fully fit players for those that are on the fringe.

still think goo should be dropped. his defensive skills were very lacking again, but no one seemed to notice because the A graders played well.

the value goo can have in our team is if he plays as a hit man and knocks out the oppositions key playmaker. otherwise he's not in the best 22.

Goo played an excellent game. I cannot understand why you keep at it, wanting him dropped. "it ain't gonna happen!" he has finals experience and that showed last night. and Yes he is in the best 22 right now.... Thats why Clarko and the coaching panel keep picking him.

If you dislike his game (or him) that much, try for next year, because this year, unless injured - he will play.

 

[Blasé]

Goo played an excellent game. I cannot understand why you keep at it, wanting him dropped. "it ain't gonna happen!" he has finals experience and that showed last night. and Yes he is in the best 22 right now.... Thats why Clarko and the coaching panel keep picking him.

If you dislike his game (or him) that much, try for next year, because this year, unless injured - he will play.

this finals experience that you speak of isn't exactly the type of experience you want. he played at port when they lost finals games, and he played at st.kilda losing finals games. both of these teams had enough of the way he played, with continual brain fades and lack of defensive skills, so they got rid of him.

we did not poach him, and he didn't come out of retirement to play at our club.

you may be right, he may not get dropped, because the coaches may not appreciate that franklin is the only reason why they get away with playing defenders like him who have little defensive skills.

possibly the coaches may be satisfied with a gf. maybe next year they'll realise that we need more from the fringe players than just playing loose running around by yourself.

as i've said before, i have nothing personal against guerra and i think he gave us good value during rebuilding.

but i have a massive problem with us not doing everything we can in winning a premiership this year. not putting in our best players who are capable of playing man on man football is a mistake.