Autopsy Jesse Hogan - Worth 220 Points

[anchor man]

I would be more than happy with the tree or four way trade spoken of today, where Hogan gets to GWS, we get Clark from Geelong.
Clarke is young, a West Aussie boy.Likes Geelong , but not getting chances.Two injuries curtailed his progress at the Cats.But they are bringing in senior players during the draft.
He is fearless, very quick, has good skills by hand and foot, and reads the play well.A bit of a swing man as well.
Do the trade.

 

[dominguez]

I just can't see that adding up to where we are now. If that is it I think we are massively overreacting and JL seems like a pretty calm bloke (I know its not just him).

I am sure there is more to it, a lot more and us plebs will probably never find out.

If you haven't clicked with your team mates and can't be trusted to follow standards then surely you have to go?

It affects the whole group having someone on the list with a bad attitude match day who also has multiple incidents every off season.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

All that, some more off-field antics and, tellingly, in combination with on-field output that can only fairly be rated as sub-optimal.

He hasn't, for whatever reason, bought in. He's on more coin than he is earning/deserves and we need to fix that.

I loved the idea of JesseBHogan. Once again, though, I stumble into the gulf between the dream and reality.

As for price, we will be lucky to get 29. Fortunately I back in our drafting at that sort of range waaaaaaaaaay more than I back in our trading.

Imagine if it ends up being pick 29. The irony would be like a cruel joke.
Not sure he’s worth more than that on recent output and the significant risk he poses to potential suitors though.

 

[ImperialPurple]

apeness was cooked when we drafted him. Literally, nobody had rated him in anything near the top 50 and we took him in the first round. Was in the era where we were taking gambles with first round picks (simpson, pitt, apeness were all complete duds) high on our own supply after lucking out on Fyfe.

Also every other key forward available in that draft has been snapped up and we were desperate.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

If you haven't clicked with your team mates and can't be trusted to follow standards then surely you have to go?

It affects the whole group having someone on the list with a bad attitude match day who also has multiple incidents every off season.

If you make concessions on standards for one player you very quickly end up on a slippery slope. This is why I’m backing in the club to make the right call.

 

[J Docker]

Am i missing something with Hogan? the way some people are carrying on like Fremantle is trying to trade out a forward who has kicked 50+ goals the last two seasons. Sure he has potential to be a good player but the reality is he kicked something like 6 goals this season. I think if he goes the statement that our forward line will be screwed is being massively overstated. The guy has pretty much done nothing the last 2 seasons so what's the difference?

This 100%

 

[ImperialPurple]

Lobb's no star but he takes a good defender. Cox is an option and Sturt is only 2cm shorter than Pav.

Pav was short for a modern day key forward. Only 1cm taller than Fyfe, same height as Bontempelli and 3cm shorter than Cripps.
Tabs is 8cm taller, Hogan 4cm taller, Lobb 15cm taller. Compared to all those, Pav was a short-arse. His insane talent made him excel as a tall forward. KP players have grown, even McPharlin was shorter than Hogan and Cripps.
And to think TI played ruck and CHF as what would be considered a mid-sized forward/flanker these days.

 

[Joao]

If you haven't clicked with your team mates and can't be trusted to follow standards then surely you have to go?

It affects the whole group having someone on the list with a bad attitude match day who also has multiple incidents every off season.

I suppose if he is totally unresponsive to feedback we have no choice.

Ah well, it is what it is. Either he stays and we get one more year of hope or he goes and we get a shiny draft pick/player.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

I would be more than happy with the tree or four way trade spoken of today, where Hogan gets to GWS, we get Clark from Geelong.
Clarke is young, a West Aussie boy.Likes Geelong , but not getting chances.Two injuries curtailed his progress at the Cats.But they are bringing in senior players during the draft.
He is fearless, very quick, has good skills by hand and foot, and reads the play well.A bit of a swing man as well.
Do the trade.

Agree 100%. Fits our list demographic and could be given a shot on the wing. Or goes back to a HBF and Aish goes to the wing. OR could free up Acres to go forward as another big body. Opens up a few possibilities at least.

 

[CapitalA]

I suppose if he is totally unresponsive to feedback we have no choice.

Ah well, it is what it is. Either he stays and we get one more year of hope or he goes and we get a shiny draft pick/player.

And dominates for GWS

 

[freoishnchips]

a) Trade Hogan, but only to package picks and move up the draft order for a key forward
b) Trade Hogan, but only to move down the draft order - cover off NGA picks
c) Trade Hogan, for 2021 picks - 2021 is a less compromised draft and be nice to have some "future picks stockpiled" for a change
d) Keep Hogan for the final year with some conditions in place:
- go for a few relaxing beers this weekend prior to trade week with Mundy & Pav (ex captains) without anyone else present - no Fyfe, JL, Bell or Dover.
- agrees to live with A Pearce for 12 months.
- must commit to private gym routine 5 days a week over the full summer (4 months) with Logue/Taberner (no soft excuses).
- get Ryan & Cox to extend the bromance into 3 i.e. few weekends away over summer.

I'm voting D 1st (provided that Mundy & Pav think he is sincere and he agrees to the conditions). If not....im voting A as I want the club to have a 100% go at L McDonald (as unlikely as that seems). Then I'm voting C 3rd - happy with stockpiling into next year 2021. Then I'm voting D 4th - just get him off the books and get our NGA talent through and sit tight for 12 months.

 

[theGav56]

It works doesn't it?

Also, I know for sure they have handlers for their players on a night out, not sure if we do the same?

Having a handler while he was in quarantine is part of the problem.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Yeah, you are missing something. Like the fact we traded him in as a 50 goal a year forward.

He has never been a 50 goal a year forward.

 

[Freomaniac]

We need at least another 2-3 KP forwards and defenders.
Tabs is 27. Only tall forward on the list. We can have a stacked midfield, but no point if we have no one to kick to. Even with just Tabs, the team struggled to score.

I love the negativity in this thread.

Tabs isn't the only KPF on the list. Lobb can play FF. Cox can play CHF and kick goals too.

I don't think we need 2-3 more kpfs. I think we need one in this draft.

Only need one now to develop as tabs and Lobb are both 27 years old

 

[CapitalA]

He has never been a 50 goal a year forward.

2018 he was on track but injured late in he season. Also i think other years where he kicked 40 odd he had injury interruptions in the middle of as well.

 

[Yeti]

If this was an isolated issue I would put it all on Hogan.

This has happened with far too much regularity over the last 20 years for it to only be an issue with this one player.

We continually pay kings ransoms for these type of players only for it to blow up in our face.

And now there is chatter about Menegola? No thanks, enough of the dumb trades. Just draft and develop and stop trying to improve the list the way other clubs can.

We clearly stink at it.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

If this was an isolated issue I would put it all on Hogan.

This has happened with far too much regularity over the last 20 years for it to only be an issue with this one player.

We continually pay kings ransoms for these type of players only for it to blow up in our face.

And now there is chatter about Menegola? No thanks, enough of the dumb trades. Just draft and develop and stop trying to improve the list the way other clubs can.

We clearly stink at it.

For some of these situations, it wasn't case of us not being able to do what another team can. Rather it was we wanted to take on a high-riosk trade that no-one else seemed interested in.

No-one else was circling Hogan in 2018. If I recall correctly, only Richmond was circling Bennell back in 2015 (and back in those days the Tiges made some dodgy list decisions). There wasn't a bidding war for Sylvia. WCE weren't that interested in McCarthy and had little (if any) interest in Matera.

I wonder if we ever stopped to consider why there was so little competition for these players we wanted so much?

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

2018 he was on track but injured late in he season. Also i think other years where he kicked 40 odd he had injury interruptions in the middle of as well.

Sure, absolutely. But we traded for a guy who _suggested_ he could get to that level without ever actually getting there.

Hogan is talented footballer. But he has never been quite as good as his talent suggested.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

If this was an isolated issue I would put it all on Hogan.

This has happened with far too much regularity over the last 20 years for it to only be an issue with this one player.

We continually pay kings ransoms for these type of players only for it to blow up in our face.

And now there is chatter about Menegola? No thanks, enough of the dumb trades. Just draft and develop and stop trying to improve the list the way other clubs can.

We clearly stink at it.

Hence the need to improve our culture. Players need to understand that we are no longer a retirement fund for expats who don’t want to buy in and believe in our club.
Hogan may not be the worst offender for all we know and he certainly has had his share of challenges to overcome but this feels like a line in the sand moment to me. Really driving home the message already sent by delisting Dardy and Matera.
Surely everyone on here loves our club enough to understand this position. I’ve supported this club since day dot and I am sick of high profile recruits who weren’t even born in 1995 just use us as an excuse to come home and take the pi$$. West Coast wouldn’t stand for that shit so why should we? Long-term this could be a defining moment for us. I will stand by my club over any individual, I don’t give a shit who it is.

 

[Yeti]

Hence the need to improve our culture. Players need to understand that we are no longer a retirement fund for expats who don’t want to buy in and believe in our club.
Hogan may not be the worst offender for all we know and he certainly has had his share of challenges to overcome but this feels like a line in the sand moment to me. Really driving home the message already sent by delisting Dardy and Matera.
Surely everyone on here loves our club enough to understand this position. I’ve supported this club since day dot and I am sick of high profile recruits who weren’t even born in 1995 just use us as an excuse to come home and take the pi$$. West Coast wouldn’t stand for that sh*t so why should we? Long-term this could be a defining moment for us. I will stand by my club over any individual, I don’t give a sh*t who it is.

My point is there is something within the club that allows this to continually happen.

Look at what happened during the years Ross Lyon was coach? We absolutely cooked our 1st round drafting during that period.

Every man and his dog could see our S & C were a huge issue and when they punted Ross Lyon they should have cleared out everyone and started again.

We are a rabble.

 

[DragoDelph]

WERE a rabble.
This looks like to be closing the door on that chapter.
And hopefully opening a window.
The club was very focused and mature in its decisions last year. Fingers crossed that continues

 

[Piggy Smalls]

My point is there is something within the club that allows this to continually happen.

Look at what happened during the years Ross Lyon was coach? We absolutely cooked our 1st round drafting during that period.

Every man and his dog could see our S & C were a huge issue and when they punted Ross Lyon they should have cleared out everyone and started again.

We are a rabble.

Sometimes cultural change forces unpopular decisions. And you can’t fire everyone straight away. It would just destabilise the club too much and be unfair to the new coach. This is the year he will put his stamp on our club and he is not going to tolerate any bullshit. That takes guts in my opinion.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

My point is there is something within the club that allows this to continually happen.

Look at what happened during the years Ross Lyon was coach? We absolutely cooked our 1st round drafting during that period.

Every man and his dog could see our S & C were a huge issue and when they punted Ross Lyon they should have cleared out everyone and started again.

We are a rabble.

Also we brought in Logue, Brayshaw, Cerra, Sturt as first rounders in Ross’ last three drafts. The problem was that we were too late in realising our premiership window was shut and had previously recruited for needs, ie Apeness. I also believe we got Morabito right but his body ultimately let him down.

 

[theGav56]

Sometimes cultural change forces unpopular decisions. And you can’t fire everyone straight away. It would just destabilise the club too much and be unfair to the new coach. This is the year he will put his stamp on our club and he is not going to tolerate any bullshit. That takes guts in my opinion.

So where do you sit if we don't trade Hogan?

 

[Yeti]

WERE a rabble.
This looks like to be closing the door on that chapter.
And hopefully opening a window.
The club was very focused and mature in its decisions last year. Fingers crossed that continues

Were? I'm yet to see anything that indicates we aren't a rabble.

A new coach can easily be ruined by poor recruiting, poor S & C, poor trading and poor development.

Also we brought in Logue, Brayshaw, Cerra, Sturt as first rounders in Ross’ last two drafts. The problem was that we were too late in realising our premiership window was shut and had previously recruited for needs, ie Apeness. I also believe we got Morabito right but his body ultimately let him down.

Logue and Sturt haven't fired a shot yet. They are closer to Morabito than they are to Fyfe.

Brayshaw is the best thing since sliced bread.