Autopsy Jesse Hogan - Worth 220 Points

[Silent Alarm]

I agree and drafting a key forward is a good way to start winning games after having pygmies for years.

See, this is just deductive and reactionary thinking.

And honestly this is the main issue I have with Freo. Steve Rosich is obsessed with our image and the way we look, because it's great for membership and sponsorship. He gave Ross Lyon a huge deal to extend because it gave off an impression of stability – and we haven't really had an identifiable, long term coach.

Peter Bell is a very decent person from what I know and he's heard the yarns about Hogan, put the kibosh on it, and been overruled. The whole 'will he or won't he?' thing in the media for a few days wasn't us being top-secret, it was us umm-ing and ahh-ing. Rosich and Lyon came in and overruled. Why? Lyon either gets an instant full forward to kick some arse and prolong his stay, or he does nothing and the inevitable happens (he's sacked). Rosich loves it because us supporters get a sense of achievement and optimism – things are looking up! **** yeah! Hogan?!

Hogan sounds awesome. He could be awesome. But I can't tell you how many times I saw him out and how many stories I've heard. Not every bloke who likes a party is going to self-destruct, but when Melbourne are pawning off a favourite son...

This argument you've presented is so dumb – ughhh we need a key forward, got one, look at us, at least we tried!

Very high risk, very high reward. Doesn't always work.

Why haven't we ever gotten a very low risk, high reward stop-gap?

Kersten doesn't count. The silly campaigner is on record as saying he spent all his money from Geelong on remote control cars. And a recent article said he's very unpopular at Freo.

 

[Allikat]

See, this is just deductive and reactionary thinking.

And honestly this is the main issue I have with Freo. Steve Rosich is obsessed with our image and the way we look, because it's great for membership and sponsorship. He gave Ross Lyon a huge deal to extend because it gave off an impression of stability – and we haven't really had an identifiable, long term coach.

Peter Bell is a very decent person from what I know and he's heard the yarns about Hogan, put the kibosh on it, and been overruled. The whole 'will he or won't he?' thing in the media for a few days wasn't us being top-secret, it was us umm-ing and ahh-ing. Rosich and Lyon came in and overruled. Why? Lyon either gets an instant full forward to kick some arse and prolong his stay, or he does nothing and the inevitable happens (he's sacked). Rosich loves it because us supporters get a sense of achievement and optimism – things are looking up! **** yeah! Hogan?!

Hogan sounds awesome. He could be awesome. But I can't tell you how many times I saw him out and how many stories I've heard. Not every bloke who likes a party is going to self-destruct, but when Melbourne are pawning off a favourite son...

This argument you've presented is so dumb – ughhh we need a key forward, got one, look at us, at least we tried!

Very high risk, very high reward. Doesn't always work.

Why haven't we ever gotten a very low risk, high reward stop-gap?

Kersten doesn't count. The silly campaigner is on record as saying he spent all his money from Geelong on remote control cars. And a recent article said he's very unpopular at Freo.

What forward would be a low risk, high reward, and said they want to come to us? It's all good to spout hypotheticals, but we got offered a low risk, medium reward (Lobb) and a medium risk, high reward (Hogan). Why would you turn either of those down? It's like if Sydney didn't take Buddy. Or even the Bulldogs with Boyd. He might not have fulfilled all expectations, but he won them a flag, and I sure as hell would take that.

 

[Scham]

Yep. Richmond won a flag with 1 KPF, a 193cm KF!

 

[Whatname]

See, this is just deductive and reactionary thinking.

And honestly this is the main issue I have with Freo. Steve Rosich is obsessed with our image and the way we look, because it's great for membership and sponsorship. He gave Ross Lyon a huge deal to extend because it gave off an impression of stability – and we haven't really had an identifiable, long term coach.

Peter Bell is a very decent person from what I know and he's heard the yarns about Hogan, put the kibosh on it, and been overruled. The whole 'will he or won't he?' thing in the media for a few days wasn't us being top-secret, it was us umm-ing and ahh-ing. Rosich and Lyon came in and overruled. Why? Lyon either gets an instant full forward to kick some arse and prolong his stay, or he does nothing and the inevitable happens (he's sacked). Rosich loves it because us supporters get a sense of achievement and optimism – things are looking up! **** yeah! Hogan?!

Hogan sounds awesome. He could be awesome. But I can't tell you how many times I saw him out and how many stories I've heard. Not every bloke who likes a party is going to self-destruct, but when Melbourne are pawning off a favourite son...

This argument you've presented is so dumb – ughhh we need a key forward, got one, look at us, at least we tried!

Very high risk, very high reward. Doesn't always work.

Why haven't we ever gotten a very low risk, high reward stop-gap?

Kersten doesn't count. The silly campaigner is on record as saying he spent all his money from Geelong on remote control cars. And a recent article said he's very unpopular at Freo.

Did you ever think that maybe the reason Ross got such a long contract was that the club knew it was going to be a long process rebuilding the list. It’s not like anyone we have got rid off in the last few years have gone anywhere and dominated. What would a new coach have done in the last few seasons except sell hope.

You can tell a lot about someone’s footy intellect when they get sucked in by the media’s obsession with seeing coaches sacked.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Nothing]

Sorry but this sounds exactly like West Coast fans circa 2005, when we used to laugh at them about Benny.

I have transferred my reply to the Hogan thread.

He is right though.

The difference is that not everyone had a video recorder in their pocket in 2005 and those who did couldn't afford to upload it with the cost of data. I did have a phone in my pocket and saw one of those era Eagles trolleyed doing lines in front of everyone. I didn't get the phone out and snap a photo. Now, there is no chance that some dumb campaigner doesn't take that photo.

What actual evidence from the media or social media reports are about the current transgressions? A video from 2017 (I think) and the photo of him laying in some birds lap are the only "evidence" that I have seen. If he was off the rails in public, there is no chance that he is not getting recorded by a dozen social media influencers getting their moment in the sun.

There are plenty who are saying a number of players have been seen on drugs. I believe them. Young male does recreational drugs is not a surprise. If they were all being as reckless as is suggested for Hogan, there would be evidence. Like the 2017 video it might take time to come out, but why hold it in the current environment?

Further, in the 2017 video, why aren't Melbourne coming under intense scrutiny for their culture, seeing as he was their player at the time.

 

[Freo123]

Have seen Jesse Hogan jogging around the local neighbourhood during the least few months. Not all bad news.

 

[youmewe]

Did you ever think that maybe the reason Ross got such a long contract was that the club knew it was going to be a long process rebuilding the list. It’s not like anyone we have got rid off in the last few years have gone anywhere and dominated. What would a new coach have done in the last few seasons except sell hope.

You can tell a lot about someone’s footy intellect when they get sucked in by the media’s obsession with seeing coaches sacked.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Just one small point...Ross Lyon's contract extension was announced on 2 March 2016, our last game was a prelim final, rebuilding was not on the table at the time.

Lyon said there was no excuse for him to not have led the Dockers to their maiden flag by 2020.

“Particularly at the end of this tenure, I’ll have no excuse to not have achieved that, because we’re fully resourced.’’

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...0/news-story/6d5c66d122de979f3b9cdb8c1ee6d20b

 

[Rion]

He's already back in training. He'll work it out, what he's actually done is so, so small in the scheme of things.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Newsflash! Badly run club that's been average for years doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from the media.

If we actually demonstrate some kind of extended period of not being underachievers I'd suggest the respect will come one day.

Yep if:

• we had been playing finals
• Bennell had played 50+ games for us by now
• McCarthy can kicked 35+ goals the last two years

this wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. Hell if we had de-listed Bennell after indiscretions in later 2017/early 2018 this still wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal.

Instead the story would be: "tough love at high-standards Freo will get Hogan right".

But when you recruit high-profile players who then don't play, or who don't measure up to their previous performance levels people start looking at you, not the players.

 

[Dockers v Channel7West]

Can't wait till Hogan gets on the track and kicking goals and have all this negativity end.

Players of his ability don't present that often and
He will get it together with the help of the club and people around him...

Rather than shitcanning the club , coach , player and fitness staff lets get behind them and just see after round11

How F'n good
Hogan,Lobb,Cox, Taberner and Walters will be.

Minor setbacks, personally still excited for season

Plenty of time to shitcan then if i'm wrong

 

[Proper Gander]

Yep, as I said we are in a no win situation here.

If we knocked him back and he was kicking goals for someone else we would cop it, draft him and we cop it!

I would rather take the punt!

So you should.

He’s an exceptionally talented young football player. He’s got more left to develop into - no way has he reached his peak yet.

Since he started at Melbourne he has had nothing but praise from coaches for his attitude to training and his work ethic. Since coming into the AFL at 17, he has built his tank and his endurance to cover ground over 4 quarters plus hit the scoreboard is what makes him an exceptional commodity.

I’ve talked to him twice at functions. Okay so it’s not the place to get a full character reading on the spot, but I liked him. He isn’t a natural in these situations but he seems a good person, looks you in the eye, and wasn’t stand-offish or aloof.

He will be an excellent player for you. I hope the media’s efforts in turning him into the poster boy for degenerates doesn’t impact him. He’s no drug ****ed loser - he wouldn’t have achieved what he has done so far if that was the case. Endurance running and a reputation for impeccable work ethic don’t come without some effort and commitment.

I hope he puts this crap behind him and has a great career. I think he will. The media are treating him like a criminal one minute and then a head case to be pitied the next. I think he’s strong enough to get past it and I hope he does. He’s a great player to watch.

 

[wild side]

Great effort Proper Gander. Best around here for weeks.
Thank you

 

[Silent Alarm]

Did you ever think that maybe the reason Ross got such a long contract was that the club knew it was going to be a long process rebuilding the list. It’s not like anyone we have got rid off in the last few years have gone anywhere and dominated. What would a new coach have done in the last few seasons except sell hope.

You can tell a lot about someone’s footy intellect when they get sucked in by the media’s obsession with seeing coaches sacked.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Pretty sure I've played at a higher level than you, unless you played WAFL seniors or AFL.

It's not like Ross Lyon just got appointed...

He's been downhill since 2013. It's scary.

 

[Taylor]

Downhill since round 11, 2015 in my opinion.

A second Fyfe brownlow will coincide with a Lyon extension.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Well this sucks. Hopefully Jesse is able to get his personal issues sorted and wish him all the best in his recovery.

As a side point, I just watched Bell’s press conference and it shits me how the media are peddling this “Lachie Neale left because he felt players were unprofessional” angle. Happen to know for a fact that Neale was far from the squeaky clean professional he’s portrayed to be!

Yes he hid it very well. Lachie had coke binges like many others however new how to put that squeaky clean image out.

 

[Kram]

Pretty sure I've played at a higher level than you, unless you played WAFL seniors or AFL.

It's not like Ross Lyon just got appointed...

He's been downhill since 2013. It's scary.

Basil Zempalis played WAFL seniors, let that sink in!

 

[jedi mind tricks]

The definitive link (if it is not already proven) between Ecstasy use and anxiety orders is coming. Have three kids who went raving in their teens early 20's in the family. They were relaxed and confident kids, who now, become blithering messes when the anxiety and panic attacks kick in. Two of them are rational enough to definitively say ecstasy use was the catalyst. This has already become an epidemic. If Hogan is genuine and not hiding behind the AFL's get out of jail free clause I feel for him.

You are absolutely correct. I see it amougst people I knock around with. These guys are not mates with me just common interests. Love taking ecstasy but complain about anxiety and depression. What idiots.

I, in all honesty went down the path of your children but not to a massive extent and believe this would of helped trigger my mild anxiety symptoms.

I would drink a fair bit when I was anxious and stressed out because of work.

Lucky I don't care for any of that anymore except for the odd drink.

Hogan may sooner or later come to a realisation that he needs to stop. Only he can make this decision. People thinking he will be back playing and at 100% are kidding themselves. He by the sound of things has a long way to go.

 

[Docker82]

Basil Zempalis played WAFL seniors, let that sink in!

Brad Hardie won a Brownlow. Let that sink in.

 

[Kram]

You are absolutely correct. I see it amougst people I knock around with. These guys are not mates with me just common interests. Love taking ecstasy but complain about anxiety and depression. What idiots.

I, in all honesty went down the path of your children but not to a massive extent and believe this would of helped trigger my mild anxiety symptoms.

I would drink a fair bit when I was anxious and stressed out because of work.

Lucky I don't care for any of that anymore except for the odd drink.

Hogan may sooner or later come to a realisation that he needs to stop. Only he can make this decision. People thinking he will be back playing and at 100% are kidding themselves. He by the sound of things has a long way to go.

Weed and booze are just as bad for anxiety imo, you could even argue worse.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Weed and booze are just as bad for anxiety imo, you could even argue worse.

Yes agreed. I don't smoke much anymore. I'm over it.

Pills though change the chemical make-up of your brain.

 

[Whatname]

Pretty sure I've played at a higher level than you, unless you played WAFL seniors or AFL.

It's not like Ross Lyon just got appointed...

He's been downhill since 2013. It's scary.

Some of the best players I have seen are also the dumbest.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sherrif]

Done volunteer work with mental health support groups for over a decade. Studied the effects of trauma and loss to university level as an elective as part of a uni degree. No problems saying it would be abnormal for someone who has been through what Jesse has been through to not have issues with some form of drug. Denial is rife in society in terms of young men self medicating with both alcohol and drugs. The short term effects of both drugs and alcohol make a person feel like they are back to their best for that period, but then make the problem worse with sustained use. The key is for anyone effected to make sure they actually get away from those in their life who encourage the short term fix for an underlining long term issue. Really not sure what on earth his so called school mates were doing in regard to the recent incident. Ive personally seen amazing results and transformations when people have the right support network. Unfortunately the opposite can also be true. To deal with trauma or bereavement the key is actually getting fufillment outside of substance abuse. If Jesse can reach that conclusion by himself he'll do well soon. Unfortunately, in so many cases the key to getting over substance abuse is to actually hit rock bottom. The fact that he's not hiding his problems with alcohol could yet be the making of him.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Downhill since round 11, 2015 in my opinion.

A second Fyfe brownlow will coincide with a Lyon extension.

I swear I've said this before – that mid-2015 was our downfall... anyway... signs were there before we were on borrowed time...

Yes agreed. I don't smoke much anymore. I'm over it.

Pills though change the chemical make-up of your brain.

MDMA can **** someone up after one pill, but generally it takes a bit of damage to do serious, uh, damage. Unfortunately a lot of teenagers now who take it every second weekend are indeed damaging their brains. I loved it for six months but that was me and her done. I've had my first ever panic attacks since then (about four times) but have generally been normal since. I know that any more abuse, and I'll probably be taking the piss.

Weed is lame as ****. This reputation it has as some cool, fun, chill drug is a joke. Terrible for mental issues. I actually remember you telling me to 'smoke a joint' once to 'calm down.' I hope you've realised how dumb and offensive that comment is – a close person to me had to go into psychiatric care due to seeing people and government officials from weed smoking. That comment was pretty harsh from a person who projects kindness.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Weed and booze are just as bad for anxiety imo, you could even argue worse.

If I don't drink for even a day or two, I lose weight, feel proud of myself, look better in the skin, want to get up and do things, and feel more in tune with my emotions – even if they're anger or sadness.

When I'm perpetually hungover I just write everything off and my main aim is to stop smelling like beer, to talk myself into a shower, and not look too hungover in font of whoever I'm living with.

Alcoholism is the saddest drug addiction because it is so innocuous and creeps up, and ultimately it's the most socially accepted.

I always found it strange how people can drink a lot and wake up the next morning with a sore head and crook feeling and that's it. To me, it's always been worse. It's been not just guilt over what you could've said and done, but a more existential worry: why'd you spend that money you shouldn't have? I'm not tight at all but I've been guilty over losing 10 bucks out of my pocket before and it's eaten me up. The amount of hangovers I had as a student that would make me feel grey and depressed until Tuesday night were ludicrous.

But I think alcoholism is not a genuine issue for young people; it's drug and yeah, mental health.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

I swear I've said this before – that mid-2015 was our downfall... anyway... signs were there before we were on borrowed time...


MDMA can **** someone up after one pill, but generally it takes a bit of damage to do serious, uh, damage. Unfortunately a lot of teenagers now who take it every second weekend are indeed damaging their brains. I loved it for six months but that was me and her done. I've had my first ever panic attacks since then (about four times) but have generally been normal since. I know that any more abuse, and I'll probably be taking the piss.

Weed is lame as ****. This reputation it has as some cool, fun, chill drug is a joke. Terrible for mental issues. I actually remember you telling me to 'smoke a joint' once to 'calm down.' I hope you've realised how dumb and offensive that comment is – a close person to me had to go into psychiatric care due to seeing people and government officials from weed smoking. That comment was pretty harsh from a person who projects kindness.

I hope you take my apology as sincere

Sorry for saying that to you