Autopsy Jesse Hogan - Worth 220 Points

[Inveigh Slang]

You do realise that problematic drug use is defined as a mental health concern.

It is a mental health issue. As soon as it effects your level of functioning and in simple terms significantly gets in the way of what you want in life then we are talking mental health issue.

You're right in that I doesnt help much if you have other mental health issues as well but it is a mental health issue within itself.

Just stop taking drugs if it's screwing your life = just stop being depressed = just stop having a broken leg = just stop having a heart attack.

Not that simple really.

You do realise that problematic drug use is defined as a mental health concern.

It is a mental health issue. As soon as it effects your level of functioning and in simple terms significantly gets in the way of what you want in life then we are talking mental health issue.

You're right in that I doesnt help much if you have other mental health issues as well but it is a mental health issue within itself.

Just stop taking drugs if it's screwing your life = just stop being depressed = just stop having a broken leg = just stop having a heart attack.

Not that simple really.

I never said it wasn't part of a mental condition

But your assuming that he has the same control over his drinking & potential drug taking as you. You can say no to drugs if needed, but again, you are assuming that he is like you & can say no.

Until you’re in his head, we have to accept he has a problem & doesn’t think like the majority.

Yes you are correct as we are all different people with different ability to take control.

 

[Bring back Drum]

Did you see it get wheeled out for Ben Cousins though?

It is because it is a run to card to play nowdays

That’s because Cousins started his drug taking as a teenager at school with his mate Gardiner & a number of other mates. He had no other symptoms of mental heath issues & was using the drugs prior to entering the system.

Were Cousins, Mainwaring, Chick, Fletcher, Kerr, Gardiner & a number of lower profile players all suffering from mental health issues? No. I’ve spent a lot of time with a couple of those, & mental heath was not their issue!

Go & talk to some of your players at WC & see the pressures there are under. Everyone handles it differently.

 

[Halfbaked]

Did you see it get wheeled out for Ben Cousins though?

It is because it is a run to card to play nowdays

Fair point. However a lot more police, ccc, hospital and such incidents around 2006.
Your club would have needed a whole ward at RPH.
I not into pointiess arguments on the net, so have nice night.

 

[Bring back Drum]

Correct. IF I took drugs I would be limited by say, money.. which Jesse had plenty of. I think he takes drugs because he likes to.... And he can!! Furthermore, an employer that will cover for you.

Familiarise yourselves with the AFLs drug policy. It basically let's you get away with it

So you can say, categorically, that you know about Hogan’s situation & 100% know that he is not drinking excessively or taking drugs to remove himself from the current mental stresses he thinks he may have.

Your assuming he has that control.

 

[DanWA]

That’s because Cousins started his drug taking as a teenager at school with his mate Gardiner & a number of other mates. He had no other symptoms of mental heath issues & was using the drugs prior to entering the system.

Were Cousins, Mainwaring, Chick, Fletcher, Kerr, Gardiner & a number of lower profile players all suffering from mental health issues? No. I’ve spent a lot of time with a couple of those, & mental heath was not their issue!

Go & talk to some of your players at WC & see the pressures there are under. Everyone handles it differently.

Hence it got wheeled out for Ryan and Rioli

 

[DanWA]

So you can say, categorically, that you know about Hogan’s situation & 100% know that he is not drinking excessively or taking drugs to remove himself from the current mental stresses he thinks he may have.

Your assuming he has that control.

Maybe he just likes drinking and doing drugs, he is a young lad in his prime

 

[Freomaniac]

Has anyone considered that he just likes drugs and drinking?

Unsure why it has to almost always be linked to mental health issues

cuts both ways to be honest.

Keep in mind Hogan has suffered cancer, his father passed away with cancer and he has an injured foot.

Did you see it get wheeled out for Ben Cousins though?

It is because it is a run to card to play nowdays

Harley Bennell is another interesting case too.

Yes you had that photo of him at tassie with the white powder.....

Then you had his 4 year period here at freo. Very depressing isnt it?

Still remember him being drunk at half time at a peel game. Wasnt a good site to see.

Consistently being injured didnt help his mental health.

 

[salim malik]

Coping with the cancer diagnosis, then the treatment, hopefully a recovery and then living with the knowledge you are never cleared of it returning is a challenge to your mental well being.
Jesse should be allowed to deal with his demons in privacy and in his own good time
This thread should be closed.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Did you see it get wheeled out for Ben Cousins though?

It is because it is a run to card to play nowdays

No, West Coast and the WA media preferred to cover everything up until the point it could no longer be covered up.

Pathetic response.

 

[Kapow!!!]

cuts both ways to be honest.

Keep in mind Hogan has suffered cancer, his father passed away with cancer and he has an injured foot.

Harley Bennell is another interesting case too.

Yes you had that photo of him at tassie with the white powder.....

Then you had his 4 year period here at freo. Very depressing isnt it?

Still remember him being drunk at half time at a peel game. Wasnt a good site to see.

Consistently being injured didnt help his mental health.

Harley was the height of frustration as a fan. But I could see how you keep slipping back into depression when everytime you try to advance your career your body gives out on you.

Still, didn't help himself a lot of the time

 

[Square Peg]

You do realise that problematic drug use is defined as a mental health concern.

That's technically true, as in it is now included in DSM-V as its own disorder. However DSM-V has a credibility problem in several areas, and the reality is it is almost impossible to make a certain diagnosis of any other mental health problems if the patient is lit up. You need to be off the gear before anyone credible will diagnose you with some co-existent independent condition.

 

[raffrox]

That's technically true, as in it is now included in DSM-V as its own disorder. However DSM-V has a credibility problem in several areas, and the reality is it is almost impossible to make a certain diagnosis of any other mental health problems if the patient is lit up. You need to be off the gear before anyone credible will diagnose you with some co-existent independent condition.

Substance misuse as a 'disorder' has been in the DSM for a while but I agree. It hardly should be taken as the only way to see things.

Absolutely. I again agree with you. It's a common problem that very much gets in the way of people getting the support or treatment they need. People are shuffled from AOD service to MH service without getting what they need. We need to get better as a society of understanding the role that drug use plays when other mental health issues are there. The point from my perspective is that as you're saying it's very hard to separate someones depression or other issue from their drug use.

Talking more broadly (I'm not saying that you're saying this btw), comments that some are saying about Jesse just needing to "hardened the f up" or "doesn't he understand he has everything, just stop" are just an an inaccurate reflection of what is happening in most cases. Increasing the stigma associated with AOD & MH issues by saying that drug use is a character flaw helps nobody and just stops people from going and getting help.

 

[raffrox]

By the way if you want to read a very well written piece on mental health and professional sports this is one of the best I've seen. I'm not saying that this is Jesse's story but its a great example of how things may not always appear as they seem.

Where Is My Mind? | By Ben Gordon

Don’t worry about what anybody says. Don’t worry about how your boys react to it, or about what people got to say about it on social media.

www.theplayerstribune.com

 

[Spirit Level]

Has anyone considered that he just likes drugs and drinking?

Unsure why it has to almost always be linked to mental health issues

I'm gonna agree on this.

Lots of people like drugs and drinking and don't suffer mental health issues.

Lots of people like drugs and drinking and suffer mental health issues that have nothing to do with the drugs and drinking

 

[raffrox]

I'm gonna agree on this.

Lots of people like drugs and drinking and don't suffer mental health issues.

Absolutely. Using drugs itself shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing. Very few don't use some kind of drug.

Lots of people like drugs and drinking and suffer mental health issues that have nothing to do with the drugs and drinking

Most agree that those with a mental health issue are more likely to have issues with drugs and alcohol. This from SANE Australia.

People with a mental illness experience drug problems at far higher rates than the general community. Studies suggest that around 50% also have a drug or alcohol problem. It is important, then, that both conditions are correctly diagnosed and receive the appropriate treatment.

Substance use & mental illness

What are signs that you might have a drug problem? As well as the health impact, using any type of recreational drug – be it nicotine, alcohol or a st...

www.sane.org

Plus the club has admitted Jesse experiences both. His drinking and his other mental issues have been identified publicly. if anyone is suggesting that they aren't connected then I'm just a bit confused.

 

[wayToGo_]

I don't think excusing poor behaviour helps anyone. But it seems some people have far too low a tolerance of poor behaviour because they think the individual is paid well and a celebrity and that supposedly means life is easier, which in most cases is the exact opposite of reality. The end result is a complete lack of empathy, and lack of understanding that the person is spiralling because they need help.

Personally when I look at poor behaviour I put people in one of two groups:

• If they are hurting others then I have very little sympathy for them. No doubt they need help but everyone should have enough of a sense of responsibility to seek help before/if they are hurting others.
• If they are only hurting themselves then that is a completely different scenario because often these individuals feel they don't deserve to be helped and are unlikely to seek it out themselves. Are they inherently bad people? I'd say no because they are choosing to self harm over harming others.

Jesse gets characterised as an a-hole but he hasn't hurt anyone other than himself and until he does I will remain empathetic. That shouldn't give him a licence to act like an idiot - he should still be held to the acceptable standards of the club. It just means he doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the many real a-holes that abuse their wives, assault women and so on like the media seems to like to do by over dramatising every event.

 

[bushchook]

I don't think excusing poor behaviour helps anyone. But it seems some people have far too low a tolerance of poor behaviour because they think the individual is paid well and a celebrity and that supposedly means life is easier, which in most cases is the exact opposite of reality.

It's really not though. Jesse has access to the best doctors in the country and is being paid $500,000+ a year to not work. Not everyone struggling with mental health issues is so lucky.

 

[wayToGo_]

It's really not though. Jesse has access to the best doctors in the country and is being paid $500,000+ a year to not work. Not everyone struggling with mental health issues is so lucky.

Yes. But Jesse might also have a bit more pressure on him than someone that isn't a public figure earning less than $500k/yr If you were to have a mental health (or related) issue would it be front page of the newspaper? Do you think that facing continual public scrutiny wouldn't take a toll over someone who wasn't a public figure?

No doubt wealthier people generally have greater access to diagnosis/treatment options but mental health isn't like getting the flu where you take some medicine, get some rest and wait a few days. Overcoming it isn't something solved by just seeing a specialist.

 

[Galapagoose]

It's really not though. Jesse has access to the best doctors in the country and is being paid $500,000+ a year to not work. Not everyone struggling with mental health issues is so lucky.

Would it make you happy if he donated his current earnings to charity?

 

[bushchook]

Would it make you happy if he donated his current earnings to charity?

I don't care what he does with his money, the point is that having lots of money makes it easier to deal with anything.

 

[dockshark]

I don't care what he does with his money, the point is that having lots of money makes it easier to deal with anything.

I’m really not sure how you draw that conclusion to be honest. I probably make similar money to Jesse Hogan, but can tell you that my family have been through a particularly difficult period recently and frankly all the money in the world doesn’t make it easier for any of us to cope.

I really think some folks need to be more empathetic to the human side of this story. It’s clear the Jesse is unwell, and a high salary isn’t going to change that. I honestly can’t imagine what it must be like to be suffering and have the media all over you speculating about all the details...

 

[Darcy 2 Fyfe]

Freo need to ensure he is getting the help he needs and negotiate a settlement. Time to move on.

 

[Cesoir]

I don't care what he does with his money, the point is that having lots of money makes it easier to deal with anything.

Yes, I'm sure you're right. This is why there are no suicides amongst movies stars or musicians.

 

[Okinakashi]

Freo need to ensure he is getting the help he needs and negotiate a settlement. Time to move on.

Why would Freo do that? He's a talented player who is unwell. Would we sack Fyfe if he got a bad case of the Flu?

This is a quote from a world famous Basketballer describing going on her Medication that helps her mental wellbeing. I think it helps to look at the bolded line.

"Starting medication all over again means basically being bedridden for 18 hours a day. It means feeling heavy and tired. And it means adjusting to a new normal that requires, for the most part, rest. A lot of rest.

Rehabbing an injury like any other."

DNP-Mental Health | By Liz Cambage

I took a DNP-Rest….. but here’s the truth of what it should have said.

www.theplayerstribune.com

Take the time to read the story - there's a few others on this website written by Pro sports people who have all the money in the world and are still struggling.

 

[Purple dynamite]

I keep coming back to this thread in hope of some good news regarding Jesse.
Instead; opinionated tennis.