List Mgmt. List Management 2023-24

[Us against the rest]

For 2023 season we got out to 37 + 6 + 1 Cat B as per draftguru.

AFL Club Lists for 2023 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Out - 3 from main - 2 rookies - 1 Cat B = 34+4+0
Riley Bonner (del)
Xavier Duursma (trd)
Tom Jonas (ret)
Trent Dumont (del) rookie
Brynn Teakle (del) rookie
Nathan Barkla (del) rookie Cat B

In 4 main = 38+4+0
Soldo, Sweet, Ratugolea, Zerk-Thatcher

Out 30 October delistings - 3 main and 1 rookie = 35 + 3 + 0
Lycett, Fantasia, Hayes
Pasini - rookie

No doubt this page gets update tomorrow after all clubs lodge their 1st updated list by 31st October.

AFL Retirements, Delistings, Trades - AFL.com.au

The full list of all AFL Club retirements, delistings and trade for the current Toyota AFL Premiership Season.

www.afl.com.au

I was never a Bonner fan but his last couple of years were much better, I would have thought he could have stuck around, a nice kick too, I always thought he was played out of position most of the time.

 

[Coobk001]

Bonner plays in an area of need and even just as a demotion to the rookie list, would've been a smarter option to retain than the 3rd pick we'll take in the rookie draft.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Bonner plays in an area of need and even just as a demotion to the rookie list, would've been a smarter option to retain than the 3rd pick we'll take in the rookie draft.

You can't just demote a player to the rookie list, you have to delist and then draft as a rookie.

We are unlikely to do that but seriously Bonner has had a long time on the list and is not ever going to develop into something we want.

 

[drcollossimo]

I remember when the Ladhams trade was a vote of confidence in the potential of Sam Hayes. Don't labour under the assumption that the club has any idea what it's doing.

Haha remember when Crippa said he (Hayes) was the best ruck in the AFL not playing AFL after that trade went down

Good times man good times

 

[theouthouse]

Everything is not okay, far from it, we obviously need to lift our game in finals. But the everything is bad, the sky is falling in and we are the worst club with the worst people to ever exist in the entire history of the game mentality a lot have is wearing equally thin.

We've finished top 4 3 out of the last 4 years, albeit, we ended up 5th this year due to another finals choke. But we are around the mark, and have just made 4 very obvious delisting's in my opinion. None of these are Brett Montgomery at the end of 2005 type delisting's, where it was met with a bit of shock. Not everything the club does is bad.

Hinkley may be part of the list management team, but Cripps and Parker should be the ones in charge of it. Hinkley is in charge of coaching, so he takes full responsibility for that but i think the blame can be shared around for other aspects.

But having said all of that i don't really have a problem with our list management decisions made either.

Hinkley "allegedly" having final saying on the player fitness for games is one thing, but isn't there a team that is in charge of fitness and conditioning of players, Hinkley hardly looks like someone that would have any idea on how to get the players fit so he can't really take responsibility for Fantasia not getting up for games.

There is no accountability for the coaching aspect bar home and away results from the coach though.

Gamestyle has shown up time and again that it will not hold up in finals. Take out the two Geelong wins, who were notoriously average in qualifying finals or after a break, and Hinkleys finals record looks abysmal in the last 9 years.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Everything is not okay, far from it, we obviously need to lift our game in finals. But the everything is bad, the sky is falling in and we are the worst club with the worst people to ever exist in the entire history of the game mentality a lot have is wearing equally thin.

I mean we do literally hold the record for the longest unsuccessful Chairman/Coach combination in the entire history of the game so I'm not sure its a stretch.

 

[longdonkey]

How much of his recruiting is on the list management team and how much is on Hinkley?

I’m all for blaming Hinkley for his incompetence in the coaching box but the bows are getting drawn longer and longer by the day.

I’m surprised Hinkley wasn’t blamed for lack of fitness and conditioning too.

He got blamed for the women’s team losing yesterday ffs, it’s just getting silly now.

I’d have picked DBJ and mcentee ahead of Fantasia for finals too.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I'm blaming Hinkley for list management decisions now because there have been 2 distinct differences in our drafting/trading during the time of Hinkley.

1. Great White hope missing link trading - Dixon, Ryder, Watts, Motlop Rockiff, Trengove plus a bunch of others. Out of 11 years this has been our strategy for 8 of them - I put that down to Hinkley.

2. The 2 years after the failed Watts/Motlop/Rockiff trades where we got Rozee, Butters, Duursma, Bergmann , Georgiadis, Williams, Burton, Mead which I put down to list management repairing Stinkers inability to manage Wingard. Also we had failed and Hinkley lost leverage with the board to get everything he wants.

Outlier is Horne-Francis

I'd say there was more positive benefit from those 2 years than the other 8 combined.

It's my opinion Davies says to the List Management team give Hinkley what he wants as he is told to by Koch and the board.

As I understand it most of the paid staff at Alberton think Hinkley is wonderful I guess if you are drawing an above average salary and have little to no accountability you'd think he and the whole place wonderful too.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

DBJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fantasia

Not sure how that could be a conversation

 

[longdonkey]

For nothing Raz is a decent pick up.

For what we paid him he was a complete waste of money.

Whilst I'm personally happy he's off the list I don't think it reflects well on him to take a deal with Carlton over Port for an extra year after what we've paid him and what he's delivered.
You would think he'd figure he owes Port.

No if I'm in his shoes you take the 2 years. Hinkley was obviously not going to play him ahead of Mac and Cheese and if his legs don't detach from his body he has a few years of good footy. If he plays good footy for Carlton is anyone going to take accountability for not playing him during our injury crisis.

 

[Comettski_1]

Just a lure for George in the same way Danny Butcher was drafted to keep Johnno from being poached because he kicked 6 goals once.

And didn't work.

Don't forget Riley Grundy. The old smooth brain recruiting tactic.

 

[longdonkey]

DBJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fantasia

Not sure how that could be a conversation

Only because he gets on the ground. If he gets on the ground Fantasia is a much more dangerous offensive player.

 

[Willsy10]

There is no accountability for the coaching aspect bar home and away results from the coach though.

Gamestyle has shown up time and again that it will not hold up in finals. Take out the two Geelong wins, who were notoriously average in qualifying finals or after a break, and Hinkleys finals record looks abysmal in the last 9 years.

i agree with all of this.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Only because he gets on the ground. If he gets on the ground Fantasia is a much more dangerous offensive player.

I don't disagree with this.

 

[1954]

DBJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fantasia

Not sure how that could be a conversation

I will assume those directional arrows signify the Flemington straight, with Fantasia passing the winning post and DBJ wobbling around the home turn about 400 metres away.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I will assume those directional arrows signify the Flemington straight, with Fantasia passing the winning post and DBJ wobbling around the home turn about 400 metres away.

I'm not sure Fantasia could run the length of the Flemington straight without getting injured.

 

[Willsy10]

I'm blaming Hinkley for list management decisions now because there have been 2 distinct differences in our drafting/trading during the time of Hinkley.

1. Great White hope missing link trading - Dixon, Ryder, Watts, Motlop Rockiff, Trengove plus a bunch of others. Out of 11 years this has been our strategy for 8 of them - I put that down to Hinkley.

2. The 2 years after the failed Watts/Motlop/Rockiff trades where we got Rozee, Butters, Duursma, Bergmann , Georgiadis, Williams, Burton, Mead which I put down to list management repairing Stinkers inability to manage Wingard. Also we had failed and Hinkley lost leverage with the board to get everything he wants.

Outlier is Horne-Francis

I'd say there was more positive benefit from those 2 years than the other 8 combined.

It's my opinion Davies says to the List Management team give Hinkley what he wants as he is told to by Koch and the board.

As I understand it most of the paid staff at Alberton think Hinkley is wonderful I guess if you are drawing an above average salary and have little to no accountability you'd think he and the whole place wonderful too.

I reckon our list management prior to Hinkley was a whole lot worse. We were great in the early days but completely lost our way around the time we won the flag. And it got progressively worse as Choco kept searching for the next diamond in the rough after the Mahoney + Bishop success stories. We picked up so many legit duds from other clubs such as Aaron Shattock, Nathan Lonie, Scott Harding, Cameron Cloke, Jay Nash just to name a few and our draft picks were diabolical for most part.

And only got worse when Primus took over and we were trying to run the club off the smell of an oily rag. From that 2005-2012 period Schulz, Motlop, & Ebert are the only trades from other clubs that were decent and if you take out the 06 draft with Boak, Gray and Westhoff and 08 with Hartlett and Trengove, 11 and 12 with Wingard and Wines we had a shocking run drafting players. Especially from outside the first round we seemed to have no idea what we were doing.

Not that what has happened since Hinkley should take credit for. But I think Cripps, Parker and Davies are doing a reasonable job.

 

[Long live PAFC]

Are we seriously annoyed that Fantasia is going? Less than 20 games in 3 years. We paid a lot for him to rehab at the club for sure. But he won’t go near it at Carlton, just as he wouldn’t if he remained at port. I’m happy for him to chase the most coin he can before his afl career ends. No obligation to port - apart from getting on the ground and not being shit. A handful of good SANFL games doesn’t warrant a new deal.


As to Pas. You have to put it in the context of his whole time at Port. Was a rookie pick. Had a shoulder recon. Covid hit. His development was hampered by this. Just as he looked like he would string a series of games together and get to AFL standard, he did a knee. Despite all this Port kept him around and gave him plenty of time to develop. His last year in the SANFL was just fine. Clurey and McKenzie are break glass emergencies and Marshall and TMac are developing backs. We don’t really have a role or need for Pasini anymore. Sad to see him go.

For further perspective - in a hot market for rucks and backs (Frampton is a premiership player for heaven’s sake!), a weak draft and several teams with places available, there hasn’t been interest in Hayes or Pasini - thus far. Teakle and Lycett had interest. Raz had the blues and GWS keen on him. Brandon Ryan got traded as a mid season draftee despite not afl games to his name. Bigoa Nuyon got traded despite being very raw and having a single game to his name. Hinkley held Pasini and Hayes back by not playing them when he could, but equally other players are getting picked up with less exposed form, so maybe they just aren’t good enough.

 

[Jonts]

This board underrates SPP as a small forward
Would make every team in the comp

 

[longdonkey]

I reckon our list management prior to Hinkley was a whole lot worse. We were great in the early days but completely lost our way around the time we won the flag. And it got progressively worse as Choco kept searching for the next diamond in the rough after the Mahoney + Bishop success stories. We picked up so many legit duds from other clubs such as Aaron Shattock, Nathan Lonie, Scott Harding, Cameron Cloke, Jay Nash just to name a few and our draft picks were diabolical for most part.

And only got worse when Primus took over and we were trying to run the club off the smell of an oily rag. From that 2005-2012 period Schulz, Motlop, & Ebert are the only trades from other clubs that were decent and if you take out the 06 draft with Boak, Gray and Westhoff and 08 with Hartlett and Trengove, 11 and 12 with Wingard and Wines we had a shocking run drafting players. Especially from outside the first round we seemed to have no idea what we were doing.

Not that what has happened since Hinkley should take credit for. But I think Cripps, Parker and Davies are doing a reasonable job.

I will agree with half of this. However in the period of 2002-2010 we pretty much had no draft capital due to us coming 1st once and 2nd once but being at the top for a considerable amount of time and not having the "luxury" of free agency. Something that Hinkley has not had to worry about due to his persistent propensity to finish 8th to 10th every few seasons.

In my opinion we did quite well to get Robbie Gray and Westhof low in the draft but you rightly point out many busts Nathan Lonie being the standout seeing we gave something of value. The rest are low picks that didn't turn out and not surprising that they didn't turn out OK.

So I don't agree with with the first comment that Chocko era list management was worse than Hinkley, just due to the fact we won a premiership and lost a Grand Final.

As for Primus he was hampered by Gold Coast and GWS having all those top picks and we should be happy to get Wingard out of those 2 drafts.

Some of the dud drafting late in the piece was pretty bad who on earth thought that Cameron Cloke was going to be any good at Port.

 

[longdonkey]

This board underrates SPP as a small forward
Would make every team in the comp

I have no issue with SPP. I do have an issue with playing 3 small defensive minded forwards.

 

[DaTBird187]

Just a lure for George in the same way Danny Butcher was drafted to keep Johnno from being poached because he kicked 6 goals once.

And didn't work.

I don't think we've ever had a player on our roster further away from first team football than Danny Butcher. He was B-Grade country footballer at best.

 

[dav3]

Are we seriously annoyed that Fantasia is going? Less than 20 games in 3 years. We paid a lot for him to rehab at the club for sure. But he won’t go near it at Carlton, just as he wouldn’t if he remained at port. I’m happy for him to chase the most coin he can before his afl career ends. No obligation to port - apart from getting on the ground and not being s**t. A handful of good SANFL games doesn’t warrant a new deal.


As to Pas. You have to put it in the context of his whole time at Port. Was a rookie pick. Had a shoulder recon. Covid hit. His development was hampered by this. Just as he looked like he would string a series of games together and get to AFL standard, he did a knee. Despite all this Port kept him around and gave him plenty of time to develop. His last year in the SANFL was just fine. Clurey and McKenzie are break glass emergencies and Marshall and TMac are developing backs. We don’t really have a role or need for Pasini anymore. Sad to see him go.

For further perspective - in a hot market for rucks and backs (Frampton is a premiership player for heaven’s sake!), a weak draft and several teams with places available, there hasn’t been interest in Hayes or Pasini - thus far. Teakle and Lycett had interest. Raz had the blues and GWS keen on him. Brandon Ryan got traded as a mid season draftee despite not afl games to his name. Bigoa Nuyon got traded despite being very raw and having a single game to his name. Hinkley held Pasini and Hayes back by not playing them when he could, but equally other players are getting picked up with less exposed form, so maybe they just aren’t good enough.

People here melt for the sake of melting

Raz? Good luck to the guy, his body didn't hold up but if he stays in one piece over there then great, talent was never the issue. Was hoping we'd retain him (cheaply) somehow but oh well, good luck at Carlton.

Pasini? Injuries likely got in the way, sounded like he was a AFL serious option when he did the ACL in 2022. Ultimately he's exactly the size KPD that most people here have bitched about the last few seasons. Probably would have been kept on if it wasn't for the trade acquisitions, it's a shame he didn't come on but it was always going to be tough given the ins in defense lately. We have developing kids who wouldn't be too far away from having a crack.

Hayes? Should have been born 20 years earlier, has the talent but not the tank for the modern game. Yeah he probably should have had more opportunities, but I'm not sure that would have changed anything.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Hayes? Should have been born 20 years earlier, has the talent but not the tank for the modern game. Yeah he probably should have had more opportunities, but I'm not sure that would have changed anything.

Not sure it wouldn't have either though. What I am sure of is that all the games we pumped into Lycett, Teakle, and the Dixon/Finlayson combo over the last two years were a total waste of time that were never going to lead to anything.

 

[RangaInTeal]

I don't think we've ever had a player on our roster further away from first team football than Danny Butcher. He was B-Grade country footballer at best.

Shattock, Thompson and Cox say g’day

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Yeah, I don't have an issue with Lycett, Hayes, Pasini or Fantasia leaving.

We paid a bit for Fantasia so that is a bit of a bummer but overall, sound delistings.