List Mgmt. List Management 2023-24

[philthy05]

Yeah. **** spending millions paying Grundy to play for us well beyond his decline.


Re-sign Hayes

Go get one of fort, soldo , pruess, Flynn, hickey, ceglar, Phillips, Bryan

Run with Hayes , (ruck we bring in from list above), visentini and Dixon.

Spend the millions on something we need rather than Grundy retirement fund.

For however much Grundy might be >>> better than the rucks we have above, it’s not far enough to make it worth it and it’s going to reverse very quickly. Is he still >>> better than them in 2025?
Is he >>> in 2026?
Is he >>> in 2027?

 

[Long live PAFC]

It’s disingenuous to use North as an example beneficiary. A veterans list salary cap concession favours top teams.

How do I know that? We had it before and it was scrapped for clearly favouring top teams.

Under the old veteran list system, their salary was outside the cap.

So a team like Geelong could pay its numerous older players and chase other talent. It’s a big part of their ability to be so successful from 06-2014.

 

[Long live PAFC]

Yeah. * spending millions paying Grundy to play for us well beyond his decline.


Re-sign Hayes

Go get one of fort, soldo , pruess, Flynn, hickey, ceglar, Phillips, Bryan

Run with Hayes , (ruck we bring in from list above), visentini and Dixon.

Spend the millions on something we need rather than Grundy retirement fund.

For however much Grundy might be >>> better than the rucks we have above, it’s not far enough to make it worth it and it’s going to reverse very quickly. Is he still >>> better than them in 2025?
Is he >>> in 2026?
Is he >>> in 2027?

Sammy has been solid enough the last couple of weeks. He does look puffed, slow and lacking agility but still competed well for most of the game. Thought his impact was solid. Macca has pointed out that the issue may be his ability to ruck consistently over a season. But it seems the club doesn’t want to persist with him regardless. So suggesting we have a ruck plan that involves him isn’t being realistic.

As to those players you’ve mentioned - why would any come to port to play as back up? How much would we have to play them to relocate? Why would they come for 2 years only?

Phillips has retired, Lycett/Ceglar/Soldo/Hickey/Preuss/Flynn have had recurrent injuries. Bryan is likely to get as much opportunity at the Dons as Port. Also Phillips, Ceglar, Hickey, Stanley - all 32, Fort 30. Isn’t one of your gripes with Grundy that rucks don’t play good footy post 30? Side note - Gawn, Witts, Cox, Stanley, Hickey/Ceglar, Goldstein all likely to be leading their ruck divisions next year, McInery will turn 30 mid season. Sandilands and Ryder both play good footy till 34.

As a general rule, I’m with you, don’t spend crap loads on a ruck, they’re over rated. From what has been discussed in the media, and that’s all we’ve got to go by, the sum that port would be paying would be around 600-750k over 4 years. Macca has pointed out that he wouldn’t be in our top ten most paid players. I’ve mentioned ways we can move payments around to make it work. And it would be almost directly be what we are paying Lycett now. The cap is also going up.

Personally I would be throwing money towards a gun small forward, wing and KPD. But there aren’t many of those around either.

 

[philthy05]

Sammy has been solid enough the last couple of weeks. He does look puffed, slow and lacking agility but still competed well for most of the game. Thought his impact was solid. Macca has pointed out that the issue may be his ability to ruck consistently over a season. But it seems the club doesn’t want to persist with him regardless. So suggesting we have a ruck plan that involves him isn’t being realistic.

As to those players you’ve mentioned - why would any come to port to play as back up? How much would we have to play them to relocate? Why would they come for 2 years only?

Phillips has retired, Lycett/Ceglar/Soldo/Hickey/Preuss/Flynn have had recurrent injuries. Bryan is likely to get as much opportunity at the Dons as Port. Also Phillips, Ceglar, Hickey, Stanley - all 32, Fort 30. Isn’t one of your gripes with Grundy that rucks don’t play good footy post 30? Side note - Gawn, Witts, Cox, Stanley, Hickey/Ceglar, Goldstein all likely to be leading their ruck divisions next year, McInery will turn 30 mid season. Sandilands and Ryder both play good footy till 34.

As a general rule, I’m with you, don’t spend crap loads on a ruck, they’re over rated. From what has been discussed in the media, and that’s all we’ve got to go by, the sum that port would be paying would be around 600-750k over 4 years. Macca has pointed out that he wouldn’t be in our top ten most paid players. I’ve mentioned ways we can move payments around to make it work. And it would be almost directly be what we are paying Lycett now. The cap is also going up.

Personally I would be throwing money towards a gun small forward, wing and KPD. But there aren’t many of those around either.

1. I’m not talking about what the club will do, but what it’s obviously apparent they should do

2. Plenty of them would move for what we can offer.

They are all backup / end of career rucks. They’ve moved for less opportunity than we could offer before.

They would be looking at Sam Hayes and Dante thinking yeah.

3. I’m not at all arguing don’t pay big money on a ruck, I’m arguing don’t pay big money to a ruck during his 30’s.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

 

[Young Gun #6]

McKay is the prize
Ratagolea is the consolation

Hopefully we get McKay, Essendon resign Parish and Swans can have Ratagolea

If Dons lose Parish i doubt they go for McKay as they’d lose Parish compo.

 

[Long live PAFC]

McKay’s advantage is that he is a free agent. Yea we would have to over pay - you almost always have to get a FA.

He is the right age for the club. Injury profile a bit worse than Sav, although has had a better season in this regard. Seems talented and athletic - I wonder how much of his current output is the environment rather than his commitment and dedication.

Geelong need to rejuvenate their list, it would be odd for them to let Sav go, and certainly not cheaply.

 

[Long live PAFC]

1. I’m not talking about what the club will do, but what it’s obviously apparent they should do

2. Plenty of them would move for what we can offer.

They are all backup / end of career rucks. They’ve moved for less opportunity than we could offer before.

They would be looking at Sam Hayes and Dante thinking yeah.

3. I’m not at all arguing don’t pay big money on a ruck, I’m arguing don’t pay big money to a ruck during his 30’s.

Money and contract length wise would be much more concerned about the reports of what Sav and McKay could be offered.

Suggestions of 4-6 year deals on 650-750.

For two unproven, injury prone KPPs, that’s a huge worry. I’m not sure there are many other options though.

I would be throwing huge money at Naughton next year as a FA - pay him 1.25 if you have to.

Rucks wise - I get what you’re saying. I just don’t think the club is sticking with Hayes and those other rucks aren’t getting tempted here. I don’t think Dixon, Danté, Lycett, Teakle can get us through another year. I don’t think there are many options.

 

[Ah12]

I am extremely worried about this up coming trade period. The club will be going all in trying to win a flag off the back of the success this year. The problem is offering overs to player like Ratagulea and taking on Grundys contract. These are moves that can set the club back years. Mackay is another who will demand big overs and is very injury prone.

We need to be prioritising our cap for Rozee and Butters long term deals.

 

[Ah12]

Grundy’s best is so far past him. He offers nothing around the ground now which is our problem already. On this years form im not convinced he is that much better than Hayes (not a compliment to Hayes lol)

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Caro on Footy Classified said talks are well advanced for Grundy to be out of Melbourne at the end of this year. Port, Sydney and Geelong the teams mentioned, although I don't think they take Geelong seriously. Port and Sydney said to be offering a second round pick.

 

[Duck Farmer]

I am extremely worried about this up coming trade period. The club will be going all in trying to win a flag off the back of the success this year. The problem is offering overs to player like Ratagulea and taking on Grundys contract. These are moves that can set the club back years. Mackay is another who will demand big overs and is very injury prone.

We need to be prioritising our cap for Rozee and Butters long term deals.

Rockliff! Motlop!! Watts!!!

 

[Portology]

Caro on Footy Classified said talks are well advanced for Grundy to be out of Melbourne at the end of this year. Port, Sydney and Geelong the teams mentioned, although I don't think they take Geelong seriously. Port and Sydney said to be offering a second round pick.

Geelong will have cap space post pending retirements, only Smith so far, already have three 32 yo rucks on their list, two out of contract... Blicavs has another two years but is now more part time in ruck to Stanley.

Sydney will have more cap space than the Cats you'd think post Buddy, Reid, etc, have a 32 year old ruck of their own in Hickey and only McLean after that, both out of contract. You can imagine they might back Grundy in, pay for "best available" ruck, if they believe in their midfield group. Not unlike the risk they took with Buddy, at a smaller scale. Would leave it open for us to go after a miffed McLean as a "good enough" third wheel, competing with Sam & Dante and following a different philosophy for once - sign up the generational midfield long term and actually coach instead of wearing out our expectations looking for yet another alleged "missing piece".

Who am I kidding? With a two year deal and no evidence of a transition plan it's 2024 or bust for Ken. Only question is will he encourage our list management to blow our wad on a KPD or on a ruck, positions he has a terrible track record in developing, or on "something else"?

 

[Macca19]

Sydney have Ladhams as well

 

[Poo Eckert]

Sydney have Ladhams as well

Not getting much game time though. Seems another trade out that hasn’t hurt us too much

 

[Chrizzt]

I am extremely worried about this up coming trade period. The club will be going all in trying to win a flag off the back of the success this year. The problem is offering overs to player like Ratagulea and taking on Grundys contract. These are moves that can set the club back years. Mackay is another who will demand big overs and is very injury prone.

We need to be prioritising our cap for Rozee and Butters long term deals.

Could set us back years, or could set up a dynasty. It's a risk, but there is a real chance of pay off there.

Hawthorn set up their three-peat off the back of acquiring mature agers Lake, Hale, McEvoy, and Frawley to plug holes in an otherwise very talented list.

Similarly, Geelong may have targeted superstars in Dangerfield and Cameron, but they also rolled the dice on acquiring older players like Smith and Rohan to play roles where needed.

Ratugolea and McKay are only 25, so hardly a myopic option. Grundy is obviously older, but Lycett isn't getting it done, and could be well worth paying the money while Visentini continues to develop.

Nobody is doubting the top end talent of our midfield, but what we have seen this year is our lack of quality and depth in key position stocks is a real issue.

 

[n4nirvana]

Sydney have Ladhams as well

i'll have him back

 

[Bevoman]

Caro on Footy Classified said talks are well advanced for Grundy to be out of Melbourne at the end of this year. Port, Sydney and Geelong the teams mentioned, although I don't think they take Geelong seriously. Port and Sydney said to be offering a second round pick.

Caro is rarely wrong: "Talks have begun with all those clubs. Port Adelaide and Sydney both expect it’ll (cost) a second-round pick, but Melbourne might have to pay some of the money," Wilson said. "Conversations are well and truly down the track. He’s out of Melbourne."
Where it's understood the Demons would likely have to pay some of Grundy's contract at another club, while Collingwood's obligation to their former player's wages will continue also.

That implies he will cost us less than the $650K we are currently paying Lycett.
Where I expect Lycett to use his free agency to get a multi-year deal with a club like Collingwood.

So, it all depend on where Grundy wants to live.

 

[Bevoman]

McKay’s advantage is that he is a free agent. Yea we would have to over pay - you almost always have to get a FA.

He is the right age for the club. Injury profile a bit worse than Sav, although has had a better season in this regard. Seems talented and athletic - I wonder how much of his current output is the environment rather than his commitment and dedication.

Geelong need to rejuvenate their list, it would be odd for them to let Sav go, and certainly not cheaply.

Fair suck of the sav mate.

 

[Bevoman]

Geelong will have cap space post pending retirements, only Smith so far, already have three 32 yo rucks on their list, two out of contract... Blicavs has another two years but is now more part time in ruck to Stanley.

Sydney will have more cap space than the Cats you'd think post Buddy, Reid, etc, have a 32 year old ruck of their own in Hickey and only McLean after that, both out of contract. You can imagine they might back Grundy in, pay for "best available" ruck, if they believe in their midfield group. Not unlike the risk they took with Buddy, at a smaller scale. Would leave it open for us to go after a miffed McLean as a "good enough" third wheel, competing with Sam & Dante and following a different philosophy for once - sign up the generational midfield long term and actually coach instead of wearing out our expectations looking for yet another alleged "missing piece".

Who am I kidding? With a two year deal and no evidence of a transition plan it's 2024 or bust for Ken. Only question is will he encourage our list management to blow our wad on a KPD or on a ruck, positions he has a terrible track record in developing, or on "something else"?

Nothing to do with cap space, in fact we would make a net gain with Lycett not being paid $650K next year.
It all depends on where Grundy wants to live.

 

[Poo Eckert]

If Gold Coast wants to shove out their first pick, could we get it somehow?

 

[Sewer de Lance]

We should fully back in Sam Hayes to take over the number 1 Ruck duties. If both parties agree, maybe restructure his current contract to include bonus incentives if he meets certain KPIs regarding fitness & amount of games played.

I would rather redirect the Grundy piggy bank towards a Ben Mackay type.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

If Gold Coast wants to shove out their first pick, could we get it somehow?

Yes by trading out a first round worthy player.

 

[davesnothere]

i'll have him back

If Sydney end up with Grundy that could happen.

 

[Powerade 08]

Nothing to do with cap space, in fact we would make a net gain with Lycett not being paid $650K next year.
It all depends on where Grundy wants to live.

wow what an unbelievable deal that would be. We're so lucky no other club wants him for a packet of chips #blessed