List Mgmt. List Management 2024-25

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El_Scorcho said:
In fairness not all of these guys are terrible, but it's an easy counter to anyone arguing that we didn't have the opportunity to give certain players more games to develop them.

Jed McEntee 46* games under Hinkley
Francis Evans 27* games under Hinkley
Quinten Narkle 16* games under Hinkley

Sam Gray 96 games under Hinkley
Riley Bonner 93 games under Hinkley
Jake Neade 66 games under Hinkley
Aaron Young 64 games under Hinkley
Cam O'Shea 59 games under Hinkley
Andrew Moore 36 games under Hinkley
Paul Stewart 36 games under Hinkley
Kane Mitchell 35 games under Hinkley
Nathan Krakouer 29 games under Hinkley
Martin Frederick 14 games under Hinkley
Boyd Woodcock 12 games under Hinkley
Aidyn Johnson 11 games under Hinkley
Cam Sutcliffe 9 games under Hinkley
Matt Thomas 4 games under Hinkley

Total 653 games
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My god.
 
Waspy79 said:
What alternative did the club have? Sit on the F1 and rely on Sweet as the replacement for both Lycett and Jonas, and now Dixon? Soldo being a failure with the benefit of hindsight is a combination of injury, luck with Sweet and his precious missus. We will get something back for Soldo. Esava can still play a role, he played regular footy for Geelong. This is always a hindsight game as we won’t know for several years what it was we gave up.
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There was plenty to be critical of from the moment they were earmarked as trade targets.
 
Waspy79 said:
What alternative did the club have? Sit on the F1 and rely on Sweet as the replacement for both Lycett and Jonas, and now Dixon? Soldo being a failure with the benefit of hindsight is a combination of injury, luck with Sweet and his precious missus. We will get something back for Soldo. Esava can still play a role, he played regular footy for Geelong. This is always a hindsight game as we won’t know for several years what it was we gave up.
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Benefit of hindsight? You can’t claim benefit of hindsight when soldo was 3rd in line ruck with an injury history so bad his personal best in 6 seasons was a whopping 14 games.

Also, we don’t have to wait years to find out if pick 16 this year makes it. That’s pointless. There’s a concessional value applied to picks in the afl.

If one team trades 2 1st rounders for mcintee , and both those 1st rounders turn out to be busts that team didn’t in hindsight make a good trade. That’s a poor trade.

close your eyes and walk across main north road during peak hr. If you make it across without getting hit, it wasn’t a good idea, it was a dumb idea still.

As for what options did we have?

We had two players lined up for each of our needs , i said at the time all we had to do was make reasonable offers for each and say we would get what we get. 3 of the players were ooc if I remember correctly. Soldo had one year left and if he didn’t play the next year he would have had zero value.

The ball was in our court , but we fumbled it playing desperate and teams cashed in on that.
Waspy79 said:
It’s quite possible. As I have posted many times, the best of pick 16 since 1990 is Gehrig 93 S Thompson and Birdman. Others include T Marshall, Pittard and Ben Jacobs. Nothing much elite has materialised. A poker player who knows what they are doing would have played the same hand Port did, it sits comfortably with me which is a rarity for this joke club.
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I’ve said before to you that’s it’s really misleading to only attribute pick 16s value only to pick 16 as if we should be bound to the worst recruiters and developers in the league.

Just because crows are dumb enough to pick McHenry and chayce jones with top picks doesn’t mean picks at that point ie 8 and 12 or whatever they were are shit.

I do agree that draft picks are somewhat overrated, you’re not paying for exact value on getting a player of Willem Drew’s or perrymans quality, you’re paying on the hope of getting a butters , Houston level player. But it’s a mostly agreed value.

Unless you’re port obviously and then they move the bar.
Waspy79 said:
If I’m not mistaken Esava played all finals games and most of the season. Who plays if he doesn’t? Scully? McEntee?

I believe you are also incorrect about Rioli. We paid up for him, it looked overs at the time but his output has justified the exchange. He has been superb.

Edit: Did Flynn go to West Coast? I don’t think he played more than a handful of games, the definition of a list clogger considering the Eagles first choice ruck is very ordinary.
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We didn’t pay up for Rioli at all.

We gave up 2 1sts and a 3rd rounder for jhf and Rioli in a mega trade. You could argue we gave up that 3rd or nothing and he was a sweetener thrown in. Whichever way doesn’t equate to paying up for him.

Flynn got injured after playing 4 games at west coast, not too dissimilar to soldo here.

Yeah, it’s entirely reasonable to say that if the threat was we didn’t break up our first and miss out on soldo we could have targeted a free agent instead. Flynn’s injury history was no worse than soldos coming in, and he doesn’t look any worse going forward than “scared saints away at medical” soldo.
Waspy79 said:
Hindsight. We have no depth in KPD, nor in ruck. The club did the right thing. If the trade hadn’t been done and Sweet was SANFL standard you’d be crying foul when the kid Visi got belted from pillar to post, likewise if Aliir and/or ZT got injured, was Tom Clurey the answer? Maybe he was, I’m a bit baffled as to why he’s been on the outer but I watch no SANFL footy. We finished second; the decision is vindicated. What happened after that is more discussion worthy and justification for criticism.
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Schulzenfest covered this pretty well but yeah. The club didn’t need hindsight. We had multiple options to fill needs, our targets were largely ooc players , all the problems were encountering were exactly the red flags raised by large amounts of people, including fans of the clubs shipping these players off.

If I had a dollar for every Geelong fan that had stated that esava was dumb as a brick with no feel for the game a liability I could pay esavas wages.

Also, ffs, coming second ? This season was an abject failure.
cosmicwinduptoy said:
Giving up last year’s first-round pick was an overpayment, but considering where the team ended up on the ladder and the resulting draft pick, it’s not the disaster some are making it out to be. If we had finished 10th, I’d feel differently, though.

The law of averages suggests that if we keep trading away our future first-rounders, eventually it’s going to backfire.
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Lol carn. As above our season was a failure, we don’t exist to exit finals.

As for the draft pick, how the **** can you argue it doesn’t have value in the same off-season our back 2 back AA star has teams offering a single pick around the mark of pick we traded away?
 

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philthy05 said:
Benefit of hindsight? You can’t claim benefit of hindsight when soldo was 3rd in line ruck with an injury history so bad his personal best in 6 seasons was a whopping 14 games.

Also, we don’t have to wait years to find out if pick 16 this year makes it. That’s pointless. There’s a concessional value applied to picks in the afl.

If one team trades 2 1st rounders for mcintee , and both those 1st rounders turn out to be busts that team didn’t in hindsight make a good trade. That’s a poor trade.

close your eyes and walk across main north road during peak hr. If you make it across without getting hit, it wasn’t a good idea, it was a dumb idea still.

As for what options did we have?

We had two players lined up for each of our needs , i said at the time all we had to do was make reasonable offers for each and say we would get what we get. 3 of the players were ooc if I remember correctly. Soldo had one year left and if he didn’t play the next year he would have had zero value.

The ball was in our court , but we fumbled it playing desperate and teams cashed in on that.

I’ve said before to you that’s it’s really misleading to only attribute pick 16s value only to pick 16 as if we should be bound to the worst recruiters and developers in the league.

Just because crows are dumb enough to pick McHenry and chayce jones with top picks doesn’t mean picks at that point ie 8 and 12 or whatever they were are shit.

I do agree that draft picks are somewhat overrated, you’re not paying for exact value on getting a player of Willem Drew’s or perrymans quality, you’re paying on the hope of getting a butters , Houston level player. But it’s a mostly agreed value.

Unless you’re port obviously and then they move the bar.

We didn’t pay up for Rioli at all.

We gave up 2 1sts and a 3rd rounder for jhf and Rioli in a mega trade. You could argue we gave up that 3rd or nothing and he was a sweetener thrown in. Whichever way doesn’t equate to paying up for him.

Flynn got injured after playing 4 games at west coast, not too dissimilar to soldo here.

Yeah, it’s entirely reasonable to say that if the threat was we didn’t break up our first and miss out on soldo we could have targeted a free agent instead. Flynn’s injury history was no worse than soldos coming in, and he doesn’t look any worse going forward than “scared saints away at medical” soldo.

Schulzenfest covered this pretty well but yeah. The club didn’t need hindsight. We had multiple options to fill needs, our targets were largely ooc players , all the problems were encountering were exactly the red flags raised by large amounts of people, including fans of the clubs shipping these players off.

If I had a dollar for every Geelong fan that had stated that esava was dumb as a brick with no feel for the game a liability I could pay esavas wages.

Also, ffs, coming second ? This season was an abject failure.

Lol carn. As above our season was a failure, we don’t exist to exit finals.

As for the draft pick, how the **** can you argue it doesn’t have value in the same off-season our back 2 back AA star has teams offering a single pick around the mark of pick we traded away?
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I didn’t realize we were trading Houston for just pick 16. Have you informed the list management team?

Rat is only 26, and we could easily get another 5-6 years out of him. You’re basing your judgment on just one season. Sure, we overpaid—no one’s denying that—but to suggest that decision will stop us from winning a flag is laughable. If anything, it gets us closer in the next five years than having an 18-year-old on the list would.
 
This trade period could get ugly for Port. Saints don't want Soldo anymore, Houston wanting to go back home is looking tough with Carlton and Collingwood's insulting offers and Houston preferably not wanting to go to NM and giving away a F1 for luko despite taking on his salary.

HUGE L here.
 
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PortAdelFC1997 said:
This trade period could get ugly for Port. Saints don't want Soldo anymore, Houston wanting to go back home is looking tough with Carlton and Collingwood's insulting offers and Houston preferable not wanting to go to NM and giving away a F1 for luko despite taking on his salary.

HUGE L here.
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Dan still has years left on his contract, so there’s no way the club trades him unless something significant is offered. Hinkley knows his job is on the line next year—do you really think he’d trade one of his best players for a few average draft picks? Not a chance. Either Dan is traded for picks that bring in top-tier talent to improve the team immediately, or he’s not traded at all.

We overpaid for Rat last year because Hinkley saw him as ready to contribute right away and push us closer to a flag in the short term. Context matters.
 
cosmicwinduptoy said:
I didn’t realize we were trading Houston for just pick 16. Have you informed the list management team?

Rat is only 26, and we could easily get another 5-6 years out of him. You’re basing your judgment on just one season. Sure, we overpaid—no one’s denying that—but to suggest that decision will stop us from winning a flag is laughable. If anything, it gets us closer in the next five years than having an 18-year-old on the list would.
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His post was too long to read but he means the pick 16 we gave up for the picks that landed Esava and Soldo, not what we might get for Houston.

I certainly don’t think that was terrible business given the dire nature of our KPD and ruck stocks at the time. It was astute trading given we had SWEET FA depth in those positions.

Prior to the trade our rucks were Sweet, Visintini and Finlayson, and our KPD was Aliir, BZT and the ghost of Tom Clurey. Unless we were in the rebuild stage which we are not, it was at the time a fair thing to do in preparedness for another premiership tilt.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is saying so with the benefit of hindsight and will almost certainly find a reason to whinge about any decision Port makes.
 
cosmicwinduptoy said:
We overpaid for Rat last year because Hinkley saw him as ready to contribute right away and push us closer to a flag in the short term. Context matters.
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Don’t start bringing important context and common sense into these forums. Port simply had to trade for Rat and Soldo, and did so in likely the only way it was possible. If port didn’t bring them in and Sweet was a flop or Aliir got injured, the season virtually became a right-off. I won’t be gaslit into knowing anything else.
 
Waspy79 said:
Don’t start bringing important context and common sense into these forums. Port simply had to trade for Rat and Soldo, and did so in likely the only way it was possible. If port didn’t bring them in and Sweet was a flop or Aliir got injured, the season virtually became a right-off. I won’t be gaslit into knowing anything else.
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People having a different opinion than you isn't 'gaslighting' you smug bellend.
 
cosmicwinduptoy said:
Dan still has years left on his contract, so there’s no way the club trades him unless something significant is offered. Hinkley knows his job is on the line next year—do you really think he’d trade one of his best players for a few average draft picks? Not a chance. Either Dan is traded for picks that bring in top-tier talent to improve the team immediately, or he’s not traded at all.

We overpaid for Rat last year because Hinkley saw him as ready to contribute right away and push us closer to a flag in the short term. Context matters.
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Exactly. Trade period has not finished yet a lot of bed wetting going on.
 
PortAdelFC1997 said:
This trade period could get ugly for Port. Saints don't want Soldo anymore, Houston wanting to go back home is looking tough with Carlton and Collingwood's insulting offers and Houston preferable not wanting to go to NM and giving away a F1 for luko despite taking on his salary.

HUGE L here.
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Probably best judge it at the end. Our list management team have been good overall. Houston will go to the club which results in the best deal for Port. If it doesn’t suit him bad luck. After all he wants to go back to Melbourne the city.
 
Schulzenfest said:
People having a different opinion than you isn't 'gaslighting' you smug bellend.
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Your garbage about Clurey and Visintini being season-long viable replacements for CHB and ruck is gaslighting in an extreme form. You are trying to plant seeds of doubt about the merits of the trade by using these atrociously non-viable options to suggest that holding a single speculative draft pick was the better approach. It’s just complete and utter crap.
 

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Waspy79 said:
Your garbage about Clurey and Visintini being season-long viable replacements for CHB and ruck is gaslighting in an extreme form. You are trying to plant seeds of doubt about the merits of the trade by using these atrociously non-viable options to suggest that holding a single speculative draft pick was the better approach. It’s just complete and utter crap.
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Soldo and Ratugolea aren't viable season long ruck and KPD's either. Soldo is average and injury prone and Ratugolea just quite simply isn't an AFL quality player.

Having a need doesn't justify spending good draft capital on shit players to fill it. If there's a team out there that desperately needs some depth at the small forward position, it would still be a bad trade for them to give us a future first for McEntee and Evans.

Getting depth players isn't hard. Could've gotten Lewis Young for probably a future third or something equally expendable, he's no worse than Ratugolea. Could've gotten Tom Campbell for free, he's just as capable of playing the backup ruck role until Visentini is ready as Soldo.

No other club in the league would've been dumb enough to spend a future first round pick in an apparent superdraft for a couple of SANFL depth talls, only to then consider trading out a dual All-Australian to get back into the same draft 12 months later. It's one of the worst displays of list management in AFL history.
 
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Schulzenfest said:
Soldo and Ratugolea aren't viable season long ruck and KPD's either. Soldo is average and injury prone and Ratugolea just quite simply isn't an AFL quality player.

Having a need doesn't justify spending good draft capital on shit players to fill it. If there's a team out there that desperately needs some depth at the small forward position, it would still be a bad trade for them to give us a future first for McEntee and Evans.

Getting depth players isn't hard. Could've gotten Lewis Young for probably a future third or something equally expendable, he's no worse than Ratugolea. Could've gotten Tom Campbell for free, he's just as capable of playing the backup ruck role until Visentini is ready as Soldo.

No other club in the league would've been dumb enough to spend a future first round pick in an apparent superdraft for a couple of SANFL depth talls, only to then consider trading out a dual All-Australian to get back into the same draft 12 months later. It's one of the worst displays of list management in AFL history.
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Only issue is soldo wasn’t brought in to play backup ruck. He was brought in as a first ruck and played well at that right up until he got injured. We were lucky we had sweet to come in and he took his chances. It’s a tough one because if sweet hurts himself it’s good to have a ready made soldo to come in.
 
I’ll side with the clubs list management on this one. Most other times I’ve been outraged I’ve been proven wrong (Polec, Wingard) - although do we win the 2020 prelim with them in the team instead of Burton limping around injured in a forward pocket?

Let’s just bookmark this one and revisit in ten years when the pick we handed over is in his prime.

I reckon you are harsh on Rat. I can recall a few excellent games both in defence and up forward. He’s no world beater but needing him was a symptom of the inability to develop talls of any variety.
 
PortAdelFC1997 said:
This trade period could get ugly for Port. Saints don't want Soldo anymore, Houston wanting to go back home is looking tough with Carlton and Collingwood's insulting offers and Houston preferably not wanting to go to NM and giving away a F1 for luko despite taking on his salary.

HUGE L here.
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They'll work it out.
 
Effectively if you look at it like recruiting Houston, Soldo, Lukousis, probably Richards , then Barrett, Burgoyne and Montgomery, thats a reasonable return. May also be an added gem with a late pick. Boring draft night for us , but so be it.
 

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List Mgmt. List Management 2024-25

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