List Mgmt. List Management 2024-25

[Peninsula Boy]

I’d still suggest giving up pick 16 in this draft is not that big a deal when we used it to land Esava and Soldo (expect to be wrong about that, happy to be corrected) both of whom at the time were expected to fill huge voids in the list.

Dunno about that one.

If you give up a 1st rounder, you should be getting something considerable back not a couple of career backups.

We will see this year what is around that mark. I think we might have sellers remorse when we see what is available.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

I thought that was acknowledged when he stated “until last draft”

I’d still suggest giving up pick 16 in this draft is not that big a deal when we used it to land Esava and Soldo (expect to be wrong about that, happy to be corrected) both of whom at the time were expected to fill huge voids in the list.

They were depth players at their previous clubs. You don't spend first picks to recruit depth players. Even if we thought they could be more, we should have paid what they were worth at the time.

Now Esava has been seemingly exiled from the position we recruited him to play and Soldo is demanding to be traded.

 

[Waspy79]

They were depth players at their previous clubs. You don't spend first picks to recruit depth players. Even if we thought they could be more, we should have paid what they were worth at the time.

Now Esava has been seemingly exiled from the position we recruited him to play and Soldo is demanding to be traded.

What alternative did the club have? Sit on the F1 and rely on Sweet as the replacement for both Lycett and Jonas, and now Dixon? Soldo being a failure with the benefit of hindsight is a combination of injury, luck with Sweet and his precious missus. We will get something back for Soldo. Esava can still play a role, he played regular footy for Geelong. This is always a hindsight game as we won’t know for several years what it was we gave up.

 

[Waspy79]

Dunno about that one.

If you give up a 1st rounder, you should be getting something considerable back not a couple of career backups.

We will see this year what is around that mark. I think we might have sellers remorse when we see what is available.

It’s quite possible. As I have posted many times, the best of pick 16 since 1990 is Gehrig 93 S Thompson and Birdman. Others include T Marshall, Pittard and Ben Jacobs. Nothing much elite has materialised. A poker player who knows what they are doing would have played the same hand Port did, it sits comfortably with me which is a rarity for this joke club.

 

[rainwizard39]

What alternative did the club have when there was also an obvious need to land Rioli?

Huh? We got Rioli cheap he came with JHF.

Sit on the F1 and rely on Sweet as the replacement for both Lycett and Jonas, and now Dixon?

Well, we’re not using either Soldo or Esava, so yes, that would have been better.

Matt Flynn was a free agent; we could have gotten both him and Sweet. They both would have liked a shot at being the number 1 ruck, as that’s why they both left. I remember I said last year I hated how we didn’t use free agency enough to fill those holes when there were a few free agents in the positions we needed.

This is always a hindsight game as we won’t know for several years what it was we gave up.

It’s not even hindsight so many here knew how bad these trades were as they were made.

 

[Waspy79]

Huh? We got Rioli cheap he came with JHF.

Well, we’re not using either Soldo or Esava, so yes, that would have been better.

Matt Flynn was a free agent; we could have gotten both him and Sweet. They both would have liked a shot at being the number 1 ruck, as that’s why they both left. I remember I said last year I hated how we didn’t use free agency enough to fill those holes when there were a few free agents in the positions we needed.

It’s not even hindsight so many here knew how bad these trades were as they were made.

If I’m not mistaken Esava played all finals games and most of the season. Who plays if he doesn’t? Scully? McEntee?

I believe you are also incorrect about Rioli. We paid up for him, it looked overs at the time but his output has justified the exchange. He has been superb.

Edit: Did Flynn go to West Coast? I don’t think he played more than a handful of games, the definition of a list clogger considering the Eagles first choice ruck is very ordinary.

 

[rainwizard39]

If I’m not mistaken Esava played all finals games and most of the season. Who plays if he doesn’t? Scully? McEntee?

I believe you are also incorrect about Rioli. We paid up for him, it looked overs at the time but his output has justified the exchange. He has been superb.

Edit: Did Flynn go to West Coast? I don’t think he played more than a handful of games, the definition of a list clogger considering the Eagles first choice ruck is very ordinary.

Probably Ollie Lord. If Todd and Finlayson were all fit, does Esava play? Maybe over Finlayson, but I doubt he’s in before Todd. I wouldn’t brag about the season part either. We all know Kenny has favourites he loves playing like McEnte.

I mean, maybe if that’s how you view the JHF trade, but I thought we did really well to get both JHF and Rioli for what we did, and we still ended up with a 2nd that year too.

Ngl, Flynn didn't do well this year. A big part of it was from that big injury he got in a preseason match; he missed a huge chunk of the year. But at the Giants, he was really good, and if he came here, things would have been different because he likely wouldn’t have been injured in a preseason game.

 

[Waspy79]

Probably Ollie Lord. If Todd and Finlayson were all fit, does Esava play? Maybe over Finlayson, but I doubt he’s in before Todd. I wouldn’t brag about the season part either. We all know Kenny has favourites he loves playing like McEnte.

I mean, maybe if that’s how you view the JHF trade, but I thought we did really well to get both JHF and Rioli for what we did, and we still ended up with a 2nd that year too.

Ngl, Flynn didn't do well this year. A big part of it was from that big injury he got in a preseason match; he missed a huge chunk of the year. But at the Giants, he was really good, and if he came here, things would have been different because he likely wouldn’t have been injured in a preseason game.

I need to stop posting. This post will get 20+ likes.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

It’s quite possible. As I have posted many times, the best of pick 16 since 1990 is Gehrig 93 S Thompson and Birdman. Others include T Marshall, Pittard and Ben Jacobs. Nothing much elite has materialised. A poker player who knows what they are doing would have played the same hand Port did, it sits comfortably with me which is a rarity for this joke club.

I and most people don't analyse pick 16 at that particular pick but what is possible and what is left in the draft pool at 16 and beyond. It's having possible access to a whole heap of players this year like Hotton, Lindsay, Shanahan, Trainor, Travaglia, Berry, etc. Some serious talent there.

It would've also helped with negotiations with Houston, Soldo, Lukosius, etc.

 

[Waspy79]

I and most people don't analyse pick 16 at that particular pick but what is possible and what is left in the draft pool at 16 and beyond. It's having possible access to a whole heap of players this year like Hotton, Lindsay, Shanahan, Trainor, Travaglia, Berry, etc. Some serious talent there.

It would've also helped with negotiations with Houston, Soldo, Lukosius, etc.

I acknowledge what you are saying but “serious talent” is also drafted at pick 1 and often does not materialize into anything of the calibre of player expected.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I acknowledge what you are saying but “serious talent” is also drafted at pick 1 and often does not materialize into anything of the calibre of player expected.

The draft has a level of speculation and you never know what you get and what translates but with the value of pick 16 or a pick in that area has a good chance of being Zak Butters, Mitch Georgiades or Miles Bergman but it can also dud out.

But what we did with that pick was get an oft injured career backup ruck and an out of favour, played forward and back, low football IQ but a pure athlete key position player. With Soldo being traded back to Victoria after one year and Esava looking like key position backup, the burning of that pick is terrible in retrospect but also at the time.

A low first rounder could possibly be a top 5 player at your club. Soldo and Ratugolea have exposed form that they are nowhere near it.

And when it comes down to it, the List Management Team has gone well with low draft picks. Best to go for gold when you can.

 

[Schulzenfest]

What alternative did the club have? Sit on the F1 and rely on Sweet as the replacement for both Lycett and Jonas, and now Dixon?

Yes. That's exactly what we should have done. You just answered your own question.

Sweet has been miles better than Soldo. Zerk-Thatcher has been miles better than Ratugolea. We didn't need to give up a first rounder to get either of them. And you can't claim 'hindsight' on this one because I and most of this board were saying giving up that first round pick was an awful move last year too.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I need to stop posting.

I’m happy with that approach

 

[240volt]

Most punters thought Sweet would be back up only and Zerk-Thatcher would be a third tall but ended up just about our best defender last year.
From what I remember Rioli cost bugger all but we did pay overs for Soldo and Rat.
I think everyone was shocked for what we gave up for Rat, Geelong took us to the cleaners.
Anyway you can’t change the past.
Hopefully we get it right this year because once Tassie come in it’s all she wrote.

 

[Waspy79]

Yes. That's exactly what we should have done. You just answered your own question.

Sweet has been miles better than Soldo. Zerk-Thatcher has been miles better than Ratugolea. We didn't need to give up a first rounder to get either of them. And you can't claim 'hindsight' on this one because I and most of this board were saying giving up that first round pick was an awful move last year too.

Hindsight. We have no depth in KPD, nor in ruck. The club did the right thing. If the trade hadn’t been done and Sweet was SANFL standard you’d be crying foul when the kid Visi got belted from pillar to post, likewise if Aliir and/or ZT got injured, was Tom Clurey the answer? Maybe he was, I’m a bit baffled as to why he’s been on the outer but I watch no SANFL footy. We finished second; the decision is vindicated. What happened after that is more discussion worthy and justification for criticism.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Hindsight. We have no depth in KPD, nor in ruck. The club did the right thing. If the trade hadn’t been done and Sweet was SANFL standard you’d be crying foul when the kid Visi got belted from pillar to post,

I can absolutely guarantee you that if we didn't bother with Soldo, even if Sweet broke his leg on the first day of preseason, my response to that news wouldn't have been 'man I wish we used our first round pick on Richmond's depth ruckman'.

likewise if Aliir and/or ZT got injured, was Tom Clurey the answer?

And again, if Aliir or BZT got injured, I'd much rather play Tom Clurey and have our first round pick this year than play Esava and not have it.

We finished second; the decision is vindicated.

Lol. Okay Kochie. Great success this season was, contract extensions all round.

 

[cosmicwinduptoy]

Giving up last year’s first-round pick was an overpayment, but considering where the team ended up on the ladder and the resulting draft pick, it’s not the disaster some are making it out to be. If we had finished 10th, I’d feel differently, though.

The law of averages suggests that if we keep trading away our future first-rounders, eventually it’s going to backfire.

 

[PowerLil]

In fairness not all of these guys are terrible, but it's an easy counter to anyone arguing that we didn't have the opportunity to give certain players more games to develop them.

Jed McEntee 46* games under Hinkley
Francis Evans 27* games under Hinkley
Quinten Narkle 16* games under Hinkley

Sam Gray 96 games under Hinkley
Riley Bonner 93 games under Hinkley
Jake Neade 66 games under Hinkley
Aaron Young 64 games under Hinkley
Cam O'Shea 59 games under Hinkley
Andrew Moore 36 games under Hinkley
Paul Stewart 36 games under Hinkley
Kane Mitchell 35 games under Hinkley
Nathan Krakouer 29 games under Hinkley
Martin Frederick 14 games under Hinkley
Boyd Woodcock 12 games under Hinkley
Aidyn Johnson 11 games under Hinkley
Cam Sutcliffe 9 games under Hinkley
Matt Thomas 4 games under Hinkley

Total 653 games

My god.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

What alternative did the club have? Sit on the F1 and rely on Sweet as the replacement for both Lycett and Jonas, and now Dixon? Soldo being a failure with the benefit of hindsight is a combination of injury, luck with Sweet and his precious missus. We will get something back for Soldo. Esava can still play a role, he played regular footy for Geelong. This is always a hindsight game as we won’t know for several years what it was we gave up.

There was plenty to be critical of from the moment they were earmarked as trade targets.

 

[philthy05]

What alternative did the club have? Sit on the F1 and rely on Sweet as the replacement for both Lycett and Jonas, and now Dixon? Soldo being a failure with the benefit of hindsight is a combination of injury, luck with Sweet and his precious missus. We will get something back for Soldo. Esava can still play a role, he played regular footy for Geelong. This is always a hindsight game as we won’t know for several years what it was we gave up.

Benefit of hindsight? You can’t claim benefit of hindsight when soldo was 3rd in line ruck with an injury history so bad his personal best in 6 seasons was a whopping 14 games.

Also, we don’t have to wait years to find out if pick 16 this year makes it. That’s pointless. There’s a concessional value applied to picks in the afl.

If one team trades 2 1st rounders for mcintee , and both those 1st rounders turn out to be busts that team didn’t in hindsight make a good trade. That’s a poor trade.

close your eyes and walk across main north road during peak hr. If you make it across without getting hit, it wasn’t a good idea, it was a dumb idea still.

As for what options did we have?

We had two players lined up for each of our needs , i said at the time all we had to do was make reasonable offers for each and say we would get what we get. 3 of the players were ooc if I remember correctly. Soldo had one year left and if he didn’t play the next year he would have had zero value.

The ball was in our court , but we fumbled it playing desperate and teams cashed in on that.

It’s quite possible. As I have posted many times, the best of pick 16 since 1990 is Gehrig 93 S Thompson and Birdman. Others include T Marshall, Pittard and Ben Jacobs. Nothing much elite has materialised. A poker player who knows what they are doing would have played the same hand Port did, it sits comfortably with me which is a rarity for this joke club.

I’ve said before to you that’s it’s really misleading to only attribute pick 16s value only to pick 16 as if we should be bound to the worst recruiters and developers in the league.

Just because crows are dumb enough to pick McHenry and chayce jones with top picks doesn’t mean picks at that point ie 8 and 12 or whatever they were are shit.

I do agree that draft picks are somewhat overrated, you’re not paying for exact value on getting a player of Willem Drew’s or perrymans quality, you’re paying on the hope of getting a butters , Houston level player. But it’s a mostly agreed value.

Unless you’re port obviously and then they move the bar.

If I’m not mistaken Esava played all finals games and most of the season. Who plays if he doesn’t? Scully? McEntee?

I believe you are also incorrect about Rioli. We paid up for him, it looked overs at the time but his output has justified the exchange. He has been superb.

Edit: Did Flynn go to West Coast? I don’t think he played more than a handful of games, the definition of a list clogger considering the Eagles first choice ruck is very ordinary.

We didn’t pay up for Rioli at all.

We gave up 2 1sts and a 3rd rounder for jhf and Rioli in a mega trade. You could argue we gave up that 3rd or nothing and he was a sweetener thrown in. Whichever way doesn’t equate to paying up for him.

Flynn got injured after playing 4 games at west coast, not too dissimilar to soldo here.

Yeah, it’s entirely reasonable to say that if the threat was we didn’t break up our first and miss out on soldo we could have targeted a free agent instead. Flynn’s injury history was no worse than soldos coming in, and he doesn’t look any worse going forward than “scared saints away at medical” soldo.

Hindsight. We have no depth in KPD, nor in ruck. The club did the right thing. If the trade hadn’t been done and Sweet was SANFL standard you’d be crying foul when the kid Visi got belted from pillar to post, likewise if Aliir and/or ZT got injured, was Tom Clurey the answer? Maybe he was, I’m a bit baffled as to why he’s been on the outer but I watch no SANFL footy. We finished second; the decision is vindicated. What happened after that is more discussion worthy and justification for criticism.

Schulzenfest covered this pretty well but yeah. The club didn’t need hindsight. We had multiple options to fill needs, our targets were largely ooc players , all the problems were encountering were exactly the red flags raised by large amounts of people, including fans of the clubs shipping these players off.

If I had a dollar for every Geelong fan that had stated that esava was dumb as a brick with no feel for the game a liability I could pay esavas wages.

Also, ffs, coming second ? This season was an abject failure.

Giving up last year’s first-round pick was an overpayment, but considering where the team ended up on the ladder and the resulting draft pick, it’s not the disaster some are making it out to be. If we had finished 10th, I’d feel differently, though.

The law of averages suggests that if we keep trading away our future first-rounders, eventually it’s going to backfire.

Lol carn. As above our season was a failure, we don’t exist to exit finals.

As for the draft pick, how the **** can you argue it doesn’t have value in the same off-season our back 2 back AA star has teams offering a single pick around the mark of pick we traded away?

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Filthy getting filthy.

 

[cosmicwinduptoy]

Benefit of hindsight? You can’t claim benefit of hindsight when soldo was 3rd in line ruck with an injury history so bad his personal best in 6 seasons was a whopping 14 games.

Also, we don’t have to wait years to find out if pick 16 this year makes it. That’s pointless. There’s a concessional value applied to picks in the afl.

If one team trades 2 1st rounders for mcintee , and both those 1st rounders turn out to be busts that team didn’t in hindsight make a good trade. That’s a poor trade.

close your eyes and walk across main north road during peak hr. If you make it across without getting hit, it wasn’t a good idea, it was a dumb idea still.

As for what options did we have?

We had two players lined up for each of our needs , i said at the time all we had to do was make reasonable offers for each and say we would get what we get. 3 of the players were ooc if I remember correctly. Soldo had one year left and if he didn’t play the next year he would have had zero value.

The ball was in our court , but we fumbled it playing desperate and teams cashed in on that.

I’ve said before to you that’s it’s really misleading to only attribute pick 16s value only to pick 16 as if we should be bound to the worst recruiters and developers in the league.

Just because crows are dumb enough to pick McHenry and chayce jones with top picks doesn’t mean picks at that point ie 8 and 12 or whatever they were are shit.

I do agree that draft picks are somewhat overrated, you’re not paying for exact value on getting a player of Willem Drew’s or perrymans quality, you’re paying on the hope of getting a butters , Houston level player. But it’s a mostly agreed value.

Unless you’re port obviously and then they move the bar.

We didn’t pay up for Rioli at all.

We gave up 2 1sts and a 3rd rounder for jhf and Rioli in a mega trade. You could argue we gave up that 3rd or nothing and he was a sweetener thrown in. Whichever way doesn’t equate to paying up for him.

Flynn got injured after playing 4 games at west coast, not too dissimilar to soldo here.

Yeah, it’s entirely reasonable to say that if the threat was we didn’t break up our first and miss out on soldo we could have targeted a free agent instead. Flynn’s injury history was no worse than soldos coming in, and he doesn’t look any worse going forward than “scared saints away at medical” soldo.

Schulzenfest covered this pretty well but yeah. The club didn’t need hindsight. We had multiple options to fill needs, our targets were largely ooc players , all the problems were encountering were exactly the red flags raised by large amounts of people, including fans of the clubs shipping these players off.

If I had a dollar for every Geelong fan that had stated that esava was dumb as a brick with no feel for the game a liability I could pay esavas wages.

Also, ffs, coming second ? This season was an abject failure.

Lol carn. As above our season was a failure, we don’t exist to exit finals.

As for the draft pick, how the **** can you argue it doesn’t have value in the same off-season our back 2 back AA star has teams offering a single pick around the mark of pick we traded away?

I didn’t realize we were trading Houston for just pick 16. Have you informed the list management team?

Rat is only 26, and we could easily get another 5-6 years out of him. You’re basing your judgment on just one season. Sure, we overpaid—no one’s denying that—but to suggest that decision will stop us from winning a flag is laughable. If anything, it gets us closer in the next five years than having an 18-year-old on the list would.

 

[PortAdelFC1997]

This trade period could get ugly for Port. Saints don't want Soldo anymore, Houston wanting to go back home is looking tough with Carlton and Collingwood's insulting offers and Houston preferably not wanting to go to NM and giving away a F1 for luko despite taking on his salary.

HUGE L here.

 

[cosmicwinduptoy]

This trade period could get ugly for Port. Saints don't want Soldo anymore, Houston wanting to go back home is looking tough with Carlton and Collingwood's insulting offers and Houston preferable not wanting to go to NM and giving away a F1 for luko despite taking on his salary.

HUGE L here.

Dan still has years left on his contract, so there’s no way the club trades him unless something significant is offered. Hinkley knows his job is on the line next year—do you really think he’d trade one of his best players for a few average draft picks? Not a chance. Either Dan is traded for picks that bring in top-tier talent to improve the team immediately, or he’s not traded at all.

We overpaid for Rat last year because Hinkley saw him as ready to contribute right away and push us closer to a flag in the short term. Context matters.

 

[Waspy79]

I didn’t realize we were trading Houston for just pick 16. Have you informed the list management team?

Rat is only 26, and we could easily get another 5-6 years out of him. You’re basing your judgment on just one season. Sure, we overpaid—no one’s denying that—but to suggest that decision will stop us from winning a flag is laughable. If anything, it gets us closer in the next five years than having an 18-year-old on the list would.

His post was too long to read but he means the pick 16 we gave up for the picks that landed Esava and Soldo, not what we might get for Houston.

I certainly don’t think that was terrible business given the dire nature of our KPD and ruck stocks at the time. It was astute trading given we had SWEET FA depth in those positions.

Prior to the trade our rucks were Sweet, Visintini and Finlayson, and our KPD was Aliir, BZT and the ghost of Tom Clurey. Unless we were in the rebuild stage which we are not, it was at the time a fair thing to do in preparedness for another premiership tilt.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is saying so with the benefit of hindsight and will almost certainly find a reason to whinge about any decision Port makes.