Game Day NAB Wk 1 Crows Vs Saints Vs Power

[Sanders]

Absolutely - I'm not suggesting they would be trying to overhaul his action. I was just tackling the ridiculous assertion that they wouldn't be trying to improve it.

Actually that was exactly what you were suggesting

 

[StuPendus]

No sorry, that's ridiculous. Think logically about what you're saying:
Our best batsman since Bradman should have been better.

Come on.

Seemed to have hit a nerve, must be your hero. However, nearly everyone will tell you that they can do better even him.
The great Barry Robran was never happy with his game even when the pundits gave him bog. Real champions will alway strive
to be better no matter what others think. They are never happy with their ‘norm’.

 

[ftmch]

Actually that was exactly what you were suggesting

You posted: "If you truly believe they are working on his mechanics then I don't know what anyone could say to help you understand the debate".

Is it unreasonable to conclude that – based on any logical definition of ‘working on’ (your terminology, not mine), that you believe they are not looking to improve his kicking action? Because that seems to be what you’re suggesting, and that is very much what I’m debating.


I’ve never indicated that he should be re-engineered as a footballer (nor has any other poster in this thread). But on your theory, he should be left alone altogether, for fear of causing any adverse impact on his action. This is what I disagree with.

Again, I would be amazed if they weren’t constantly reviewing and looking to improve his action. These are highly skilled and qualified people – I’m pretty sure they’re capable of identifying changes to his action that will (or at least are likely to) address the areas of concern, without compromising his strengths.

Or do you think they share your black and white approach to this?

 

[craig crowing]

I found a redeeming feature of McKernan's game. He laid a strong tackle on a mid and won the free. Kicks a huge one to Jenkins' position, Callinan gathers and lends the easy give to Johncock who goals.

Thats the sort of play we were seeing from Smack against Port and Sydney last season.

Wow Thommo grabbing at straws there like we all did with Sellar . I am afraid wishing does not do the making. Also found a little strange JJ comes out 2 nd game on sunday and shows us what we have been hoping for and all we can talk about is his kicking.
Not too sure if Crouch ready yet as although rated highly you could not compare his game with Wines for Port who looked class and ready . Time will be the proof but make him earn a spot .
But feel there are some spots there as Doughty out and surely Callinan , Petrenko would not be certainities after season ending disaster form. Personally though like Pets input feel that he does not have skills for AFL and at season end could not even get near the ball . Both Lyons and Riley who has developed some skills would be better options along with Lynch maybe.
Also can Vince finally pull his finger out and play season out to the talent he has or need another kick up --- again . And can Johncock give us a real something extra up forward as in NAB for whole season as obvious not seen as full time defender.

 

[FAITH]

What good is Crouch in the SANFL going to do?

Crouch is special. The kid would have gone top 5 in this years draft. He is highly touted - has had two full AFL preseasons in addition to playing a season plus finals in the SANFL against men.

We traded away our pick 10 in the 2011 draft in addition to our compo pick (pick 17 in 2012) to get him. As a club we have never had access to a player regarded as highly as a junior as Crouch.

For his development (injuries permitting of course) he has to play at least 15 games.

You need to invest in high level talent at every opportunity.

Completely disagree. If his form isnt worthy of a spot ahead of Lyons Reily etc and you still play him what do u think will happen to those players who deserve a spot?
They are gonna be pretty pissed....

Jarryd Lyons and Reily 2012 SANFL form >>>>>>>>> Crouch 2012 SANFL form

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Yep, Riley must play

I know Kerridge spoke about playing forward with some mid time (allowing for greater on field time for Thompson, Danger, Sloane, Wright instead of rotating to the bench as often), but this position must first go to Riley.

Sure he's not at the level of the other blokes yet but we won't lose much in the centre clearances, whereas with Douglas/Kerridge/Callinan/Petrenko type options we will drop a fair margin (don't have stats, just an observation).

 

[skoobydoo]

Yep, Riley must play

I know Kerridge spoke about playing forward with some mid time (allowing for greater on field time for Thompson, Danger, Sloane, Wright instead of rotating to the bench as often), but this position must first go to Riley.

Sure he's not at the level of the other blokes yet but we won't lose much in the centre clearances, whereas with Douglas/Kerridge/Callinan/Petrenko type options we will drop a fair margin (don't have stats, just an observation).

Yep. It's simple.......Riley gets the ball......nomatter how tough it is.

 

[WeeBlake]

Jarryd Lyons and Reily 2012 SANFL form >>>>>>>>> Crouch 2012 SANFL form

Yeah, but Symes form >>>>>>>>> everyone else's form.

Also Riley's age > Crouch's age

But Crouch's potential >>> Riley and Lyon's potential.

At some point, you have to make a decision to put games into your most promising youngsters ahead of less likely prospects. Crouch should definately be getting games ahead of Riley.

 

[ftmch]

Someone previously on this thread (I think) made the point that it depends on where we are at in terms of our premiership cycle, and it was a point well made.

Given we are genuine challengers for the flag this year, we've got to put our best 22 on the park imo. If this means Riley or Lyons get's a gig over Crouch, then I'm OK with that.

(I guess the flip side to that is that our window will also be wide open (possibly even wider) in the next 2-3 years, so the sooner we can get games into Crouch to be a significant contributor in that push, the better).

 

[Vader]

Someone previously on this thread (I think) made the point that it depends on where we are at in terms of our premiership cycle, and it was a point well made.

Given we are genuine challengers for the flag this year, we've got to put our best 22 on the park imo. If this means Riley or Lyons get's a gig over Crouch, then I'm OK with that.

(I guess the flip side to that is that our window will also be wide open (possibly even wider) in the next 2-3 years, so the sooner we can get games into Crouch to be a significant contributor in that push, the better).

True.. but how do you measure that? And when?

Right now, Riley and Lyons are ahead of Crouch in their development. However, if Crouch were to play the majority of the year in the AFL then I have little doubt that he would be ahead of them by the time finals (2013) roll around. Crouch has nothing left to learn from the SANFL and the only way he can continue to develop is to play him at the highest level.

Neither Riley nor Lyons have the extreme potential that Crouch has - but both are ahead of him right now. Does that mean we should play them now, if doing so ******s Crouch's development (to the long term detriment of the team)? I think not, though I can understand why others would lean towards Riley & Lyons - particularly given their good performances on Sunday evening.

 

[ftmch]

True.. but how do you measure that? And when?

Right now, Riley and Lyons are ahead of Crouch in their development. However, if Crouch were to play the majority of the year in the AFL then I have little doubt that he would be ahead of them by the time finals (2013) roll around. Crouch has nothing left to learn from the SANFL and the only way he can continue to develop is to play him at the highest level.

Neither Riley nor Lyons have the extreme potential that Crouch has - but both are ahead of him right now. Does that mean we should play them now, if doing so ******s Crouch's development (to the long term detriment of the team)? I think not, though I can understand why others would lean towards Riley & Lyons - particularly given their good performances on Sunday evening.

I can certainly appreciate why we would make an exception with Crouch, given the expectations the club have for him.

Bottom line I guess is that it's nice we're in a position to be debating this at all. Probably only 3 years ago it would have been a lay down misere that Crouch would have played the every game.

 

[FAITH]

Arent we trying to win the premiership this season?
Play the best and most in form players.
This isnt a development or tanking yr for us

 

[PykeDream]

I'm beginning to feel that Crouch will be our ideal super-sub early on.

On Sunday he showed glimpses but demonstrated he wasn't quite up to the pace of the game just yet which can be helped by short and sweet tenures when matches are on the line.

Lyons and Riley looked far more composed and were among our best and reflected their temperament in their respective, limited AFL games. Both of those should push for Best 21 selection should their form continue.

 

[MRB37]

Arent we trying to win the premiership this season?
Play the best and most in form players.
This isnt a development or tanking yr for us

I'd play him, but I doubt he'll get selected for all 22 and finals. I think the team is good enough to beat a majority of sides, Crouch selected or not.

 

[Sanders]

You posted: "If you truly believe they are working on his mechanics then I don't know what anyone could say to help you understand the debate".

Is it unreasonable to conclude that – based on any logical definition of ‘working on’ (your terminology, not mine), that you believe they are not looking to improve his kicking action? Because that seems to be what you’re suggesting, and that is very much what I’m debating.


I’ve never indicated that he should be re-engineered as a footballer (nor has any other poster in this thread). But on your theory, he should be left alone altogether, for fear of causing any adverse impact on his action. This is what I disagree with.

Again, I would be amazed if they weren’t constantly reviewing and looking to improve his action. These are highly skilled and qualified people – I’m pretty sure they’re capable of identifying changes to his action that will (or at least are likely to) address the areas of concern, without compromising his strengths.

Or do you think they share your black and white approach to this?

You seem confused by concepts such as mechanics which you believe are being changed, and technique which isn't.

I won't confuse things by introducing routine & approach

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Interesting to see so many so confident in their assessment on Crouch, me think it's a little early to draw any Crouch 2013 season impact conclusions based on week 1 MM comp

 

[PykeDream]

Interesting to see so many so confident in their assessment on Crouch, me think it's a little early to draw any Crouch 2013 season impact conclusions based on week 1 MM comp

Can only go off what we see - if we waited till we had sufficient evidence to make judgements on players, we'd have no 'Round 1 team' or 'Ladder prediction' threads - hell no board activity in the off season. I think most would see that many things are set to change and that's probably the best - I remember last year the first part of Dangerfield's NAB Cup campaign was judged as being uninspiring and several were tempering expectations.

Not to mention in Crouch's case we've been waiting more than a year to see what impact he can have in the AFL.

 

[Ravenous Crow]

Interesting to see so many so confident in their assessment on Crouch, me think it's a little early to draw any Crouch 2013 season impact conclusions based on week 1 MM comp

Exactly. Plenty of time for all three as well as many others to push their claims.

 

[Mattrox]

Exactly. Plenty of time for all three as well as many others to push their claims.

 

[anthc]

How bout we give Crouch another go rather than judging form on one pissy nabcup game, plenty of good players have shit games.....but the good players can turn that around very very quickly

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Seemed to have hit a nerve, must be your hero. However, nearly everyone will tell you that they can do better even him.

Yeah, sure.

If you take trite throwaway lines as gospel.

Were you expecting improvement from our 33 year olds because Neil said so?

The great Barry Robran was never happy with his game even when the pundits gave him bog. Real champions will alway strive
to be better no matter what others think. They are never happy with their ‘norm’.

Actually real champions have the utmost confidence in what they do. They do it their way and have belief that they will prevail.

It is the lesser players who constantly doubt themselves, tinker with techniques, make modifications and constantly seek the 'perfect' technique, that the real pros have realised long ago doesn't exist.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You posted: "If you truly believe they are working on his mechanics then I don't know what anyone could say to help you understand the debate".

Is it unreasonable to conclude that – based on any logical definition of ‘working on’ (your terminology, not mine), that you believe they are not looking to improve his kicking action? Because that seems to be what you’re suggesting, and that is very much what I’m debating.


I’ve never indicated that he should be re-engineered as a footballer (nor has any other poster in this thread). But on your theory, he should be left alone altogether, for fear of causing any adverse impact on his action. This is what I disagree with.

Again, I would be amazed if they weren’t constantly reviewing and looking to improve his action. These are highly skilled and qualified people – I’m pretty sure they’re capable of identifying changes to his action that will (or at least are likely to) address the areas of concern, without compromising his strengths.

Or do you think they share your black and white approach to this?

You need to have less of a life and watch more football shows

The Hawks initially tried to change Buddy's kicking style. They got the greatest himself Jason Dunstall to do some one-on-one tuition with him, to straighten him up and make him more conventional.

It backfired. He kicked worse.

They realised that what they had was pretty damn good and they should just leave it alone.

They also realised that even the best coaches aren't infallible.

Take Buddy - can kick ridiculous set shot goals from outside fifty. Can can kick unbelievable shots from the boundary line that bend the 'other' way to what they should. Can also miss from 30m out directly in front.

No coach could confidently say that they have the coaching skills where with surgical precision they could modify his kicking action to remove only the shots missed from straight in front but leave alone all the ridiculous bombs, boundary line miracles and instinctive gems.

Buddy would be practising volume. Of course, the same as any player. He would be practising his goal kicking. No one would be getting him to experiment with his ball drop, run up etc.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Someone previously on this thread (I think) made the point that it depends on where we are at in terms of our premiership cycle, and it was a point well made.

Given we are genuine challengers for the flag this year, we've got to put our best 22 on the park imo. If this means Riley or Lyons get's a gig over Crouch, then I'm OK with that.

(I guess the flip side to that is that our window will also be wide open (possibly even wider) in the next 2-3 years, so the sooner we can get games into Crouch to be a significant contributor in that push, the better).

Blight shouldn't have played Edwards, Goodwin or Johnson in 1997 because we were a chance for the flag.

Better to stick with proven solid performers like Tregenza, Liptak, McCartney...

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Arent we trying to win the premiership this season?
Play the best and most in form players.
This isnt a development or tanking yr for us

Playing talented young players doesn't mean you aren't trying to win a premiership.

Look at Collingwood. Heck, look at us 97.

Crouch (as an example) will improve quickly. If he's behind a mid-range player now he won't be by the end of the season - IF he gets to play AFL games that is.

If he rots away at Richmond Oval however...

 

[ftmch]

You need to have less of a life and watch more football shows

My wife would beg to differ

The Hawks initially tried to change Buddy's kicking style. They got the greatest himself Jason Dunstall to do some one-on-one tuition with him, to straighten him up and make him more conventional.

It backfired. He kicked worse.

OK, fair cop. I wasn't aware of that.

I guess the point I was trying to get to (albeit badly) was that they wouldn't not try to remedy it for fear of making it worse. I can certainly understand them not continuing down that path having once tried and actually making it worse though.