Game Day NAB Wk 1 Crows Vs Saints Vs Power

[Tex200]

It would seem Crouch is settling the debate by taking matters into his own hands. Keeps going like this he will selected on form alone. The issue of fast tracking might not be an issue at all

 

[StuPendus]

Yeah, sure.

If you take trite throwaway lines as gospel.

Were you expecting improvement from our 33 year olds because Neil said so?


Actually real champions have the utmost confidence in what they do. They do it their way and have belief that they will prevail.

It is the lesser players who constantly doubt themselves, tinker with techniques, make modifications and constantly seek the 'perfect' technique, that the real pros have realised long ago doesn't exist.

You trying to emulate Cro-mo just isn’t working. Well for me anyway.

 

[beartoo]

Crouch had a very good game. 19 touches and most were quality. Has incredibly fast hands. Lock for Round 1.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

seriously disagree. Crows have too many quality youngsters on their list to only be giving 2 of them 12 games and 0 to the others. Need to share the load around and develop as many of these youngsters on our list. there is some serious quality there.

I don't think a handful of games does enough.

And the number 2 was just an example. If it's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... talented youngsters the coaches believe will be genuine quality players then they need the investment in all of them.

And they need to be discerning. Can't give games to everyone because every player who walks into an AFL club has some talent (except Stevens) and they won't all be guns.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

As you can see the majority of these players played over 15 games in their first seasons. I realise the majority of the teams that drafted these players were at the bottom of the ladder and had easier sides to break into - but the majority of these players are superstars. We need to get games into Crouch... He could be something special....

This is the point I have issue with.

The Shirley Lovers Society have always trotted this one out when anyone on here has a crack at the lack of youngsters in the team.

Effectively it means that only bad teams can produce good players. Good teams can't.

 

[AFC979810]

This is the point I have issue with.

The Shirley Lovers Society have always trotted this one out when anyone on here has a crack at the lack of youngsters in the team.

Effectively it means that only bad teams can produce good players. Good teams can't.

Not sure why you have an issue with this or can dispute it.

My post was about top 5 draftee's and how many games they played in their first season. Generally speaking the top 5 draft picks go to the top 5 worst teams in the competition. The combination that they are the top 5 young players in the league and the fact that they play for teams that are no good - means that they average alot of games in their first season.

The point I was trying to make (albeit badly) is that Crouch is a top 5 talent. We need to do what every club has done with their top 5 midfield picks and play him as much as possible.

As a member of the Shirley Lovers Society - I have never said that good teams can't produce talent. I think the Crows are a brilliant example of producing topline talent without having high draft picks. What I think is the issue is that many on here don't understand the way a football team works and that you can't have 22 superstars. You need the hardworking vanilla types that occasionally make some howlers but overall their performance is quality at AFL level. Its amazing how many said that the only reason Reilly/Doughty/Douglas got games was because of Neil Craig and that they needed to be dropped for younger players and wouldn't last under Sando. Crazily enough they played 25/24/20 games last year and were important members of a side that was one kick from a prelim.

 

[Mattrox]

I think there is a fine line between fast-tracking players and gifting rookies games. We need to avoid the latter.

If there is space I am sure Sando will develop a structure to ensure young talent gets a string of games. I think last year Sando's best 22 approach was to consolidate and stabilize the playing group. I don't think we will see players in for only 3 games unless Sando considers them purely depth players.

 

[Vader]

I think there is a fine line between fast-tracking players and gifting rookies games. We need to avoid the latter.

If there is space I am sure Sando will develop a structure to ensure young talent gets a string of games. I think last year Sando's best 22 approach was to consolidate and stabilize the playing group. I don't think we will see players in for only 3 games unless Sando considers them purely depth players.

Ahh.. but the fun & games begin when Sando's idea of a "depth player" doesn't match up with BigFooty's idea of a "depth player". The reality is that Martin & Riley are only depth players - but try telling that to their obsessive supporters here on BigFooty. It's like kicking over a hornets' nest.

 

[Glenno23]

Ahh.. but the fun & games begin when Sando's idea of a "depth player" doesn't match up with BigFooty's idea of a "depth player". The reality is that Martin & Riley are only depth players - but try telling that to their obsessive supporters here on BigFooty. It's like kicking over a hornets' nest.

They may be depth players, but i feel they could become those support guys you have to have in your team. It may not be at Adelaide, but i feel there is something there with the both of them. I've been an advocate of Riley for the past 2 years, i really hope he can break into the side this year

I also really like Martin on a HFF flank too. His run and carry could be really damaging, especially seeing how accurate a shot he is on the run

I think they have more to offer

 

[beartoo]

Ahh.. but the fun & games begin when Sando's idea of a "depth player" doesn't match up with BigFooty's idea of a "depth player". The reality is that Martin & Riley are only depth players - but try telling that to their obsessive supporters here on BigFooty. It's like kicking over a hornets' nest.

Being obsessive is what BF is all about.
You yourself betray obsessive qualities. Martin was one of our best on Saturday and is on track for game time this year. Riley looks like an AFL quality player to me. If he doesn't make it with the Crows, my money would be on him to succeed elsewhere. I'm not holding myself up as being a perfect judge. I didn't think Tex had the application and had serious doubts about Danger.

 

[Vader]

Being obsessive is what BF is all about.
You yourself betray obsessive qualities. Martin was one of our best on Saturday and is on track for game time this year. Riley looks like an AFL quality player to me. If he doesn't make it with the Crows, my money would be on him to succeed elsewhere. I'm not holding myself up as being a perfect judge. I didn't think Tex had the application and had serious doubts about Danger.

Oh, I freely admit to being obsessive. I have my favourites and my whipping boys, just like everyone else around here... and those who I just think are flat out over-rated (which includes Martin & Riley).

We've been over this Martin thing before, but I just don't see him ever breaking into our best 22. We have many, many mids ahead of him in the pecking order - and more of them coming through this year (Crouch, Lyons - and possibly Kerridge & Riley). Martin is never going to dislodge any of our senior players - not even BigFooty punching bags like Douglas. He's a handy depth player and nothing more. That said, he'll still get a few games this year unless we have a ridiculously good injury run like we did in 2012.

** Now, if he could reinvent himself as a small forward with aggressive tackling and strong defensive skills, then maybe - just maybe - he might be able to take Petrenko's position. Petrenko's disposal is ordinary at best and tends towards spectacularly awful when kicking for goal. This makes his position vulnerable in my eyes. That said, his manic defensive pressure and tackling ensures his regular selection every week. If Martin can match Petrenko's manic defence, with better disposal than Pup, he might, just maybe, find a way into the best 22.

 

[Paladin]

Ahh.. but the fun & games begin when Sando's idea of a "depth player" doesn't match up with BigFooty's idea of a "depth player". The reality is that Martin & Riley are only depth players - but try telling that to their obsessive supporters here on BigFooty. It's like kicking over a hornets' nest.

I remember when you said Wright was a list clogger and Petrenko wouldn't make it.

You were wrong then too Riley is easily AFL quality and this is Martin's year.

 

[Vader]

I remember when you said Wright was a list clogger and Petrenko wouldn't make it.

I did. I was wrong, particularly with my comments about Wright. I still think Petrenko has deficiencies in his game which are likely to be career limiting - but at the moment he's filling a unique position in our team, which ideally suits his abilities.

These statements do not misrepresent my previous posting history. That's the difference.

You were wrong then too Riley is easily AFL quality and this is Martin's year.

I've never said that they aren't AFL quality. What I have consistently said is that they are so far down our pecking order that they won't ever get the chance to become best 22 players.

Consider the list of midfielders ahead of them (in no particular order):
Thompson
Dangerfield
Sloane
VB
Wright
Douglas
Mackay
Crouch
Smith
Reilly
Vince
Henderson
Petrenko **
Porplyzia **
Callinan **
Johncock **

** not strictly midfielders, but mid-sized players with established positions in the team.

Not to mention that they're going head to head with Lyons, Kerridge and Grigg, all of whom are fighting for the same position. Personally, I'd rate Lyons ahead of them, but that's just my opinion, whereas the list above is based upon team selections and shouldn't be subject to debate.

Yes, they're AFL standard - but they're also our 17th & 18th best mid-sized players, at best. With Lyons likely to go past them this year, their chances continue to diminish. They're handy for depth, but not best 22 material.

 

[Paladin]

Agree its tough for Riley to make the 22 with our inside mid depth Vader Hopefully we can hang on to him until Thommo is ready to give it away.

 

[Mattrox]

Ahh.. but the fun & games begin when Sando's idea of a "depth player" doesn't match up with BigFooty's idea of a "depth player". The reality is that Martin & Riley are only depth players - but try telling that to their obsessive supporters here on BigFooty. It's like kicking over a hornets' nest.

But we also need to trust the head coaches judgement until he proves otherwise. That's the job he has been paid to do. And I believe Sando's footy background stands him in good stead. We might not agree, but being a keyboard warrior does not a footy selector make.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

It annoys me that Petrenko get automatic selection for his "defensive" skills when playing in the forward line. I'd rather a small forward who doesn't shit his pants everytime he lines up for a set shot.

 

[Geoffa32]

I reckon Tambling should be given a block of 4-5 games whilst Smith is out to fight for his career.

This time many of us this time last year had a line through Reilly's name, but Sando fixed him.

Tambling the 2013 version?

 

[macca23]

Just haven't seen what everyone else sees. I have seen all of his games. Was almost invisible in his games in 2011. Last year played 5 games - however you can't count the Sydney game and Freo games as he was a sub and played less than 20% of each game. The other three games were against sub standard midfields in Gold Coast / Melbourne / Essendon and I think he was serviceable.

From what I have seen I like the fact he is tough and can win his own footy. Gets a heap of contested possessions and is tough.

I think in our current midfield we have plenty of ballwinners (Thommo/Danger/Wright/Sloane/Crouch). I don't think he gets a game ahead of any of those players. He reminds me of a poor mans 2011 Dangerfield. Can win the hardball, but doesn't get enough uncontested footy to hurt the opposition. I think that in 2012 we have plenty of ballwinning ability in our midfield and therefore Lyons (and his pace and quality disposal) should get the nod ahead of him.

I understand where you're coming from re Riley, although I disagree somewhat in just how good he can be.

Our main need at the moment is a quick outside mid, as we do have some very good ball extractors in the midfield, being the ones that you have named. However Sloane rarely goes into the centre bounces, and IMO Riley is a beauty in close and tight. You don't earn the name of pigdog for nothing (although he looks a little like one too ). I think he has always shown lot in almost every game he has played in the past and his pre-season form has been absolute A grade. I rate Riley way above Kerridge as the ones not in the best 22 last year who are really knocking on the door this year

The outside mid role is an interesting one and has been a weakness for us for a while now. Danyl Pearce confirmed on 5aa last week that he might well have become a Crow if he hadn't been left hanging because of Adelaide waiting on Tippett. Lyon is a possibility and definitely a chance but I would like to see a little more from him in these pre-season games before becoming sold on him. Brodie Martin is another very likely candidate if he can stay sound.

Long-term, I think that Ellis-Yolmen is our man for that role. He'll have to go through an apprenticeship of very sound SANFL form, before he gets his chance on a HB flank at AFL level. However, I think that long term he's going to really offer us something as an outside mid-fielder who can get his own ball as well. He's got some tricks, that boy.

The good thing is that we do have plenty of pressure on those in the best 22 to perform, or be replaced by those busting their arse to force their way into the side.

 

[macca23]

.

** Now, if he could reinvent himself as a small forward with aggressive tackling and strong defensive skills, then maybe - just maybe - he might be able to take Petrenko's position. Petrenko's disposal is ordinary at best and tends towards spectacularly awful when kicking for goal. This makes his position vulnerable in my eyes. That said, his manic defensive pressure and tackling ensures his regular selection every week. If Martin can match Petrenko's manic defence, with better disposal than Pup, he might, just maybe, find a way into the best 22.

Totally agree Vader.

Petrenko's fanatical tackling is very very good when he's 100% fit and in form. However his kicking is not at AFL and it turns to U'9's level as he almost physically shits himself while shooting for goal.

Martin has very good disposal and is a very reliable set shot at goal because unlike Petrenko he has a good kicking action. If he could apply the same physical pressure that Pets does, then I'd definitely rather see him play that role because he would then have more weapons than Petrenko.

 

[Geoffa32]

Totally agree Vader.

Petrenko's fanatical tackling is very very good when he's 100% fit and in form. However his kicking is not at AFL and it turns to U'9's level as he almost physically shits himself while shooting for goal.

Martin has very good disposal and is a very reliable set shot at goal because unlike Petrenko he has a good kicking action. If he could apply the same physical pressure that Pets does, then I'd definitely rather see him play that role because he would then have more weapons than Petrenko.

I am a Petrenko fan, but tend to agree.

 

[fabs33]

macca23, regarding the quick outside mid you wrote about earlier, I think it would still be possible to bring in Riley (or any other inside mid) if we could identify one of our current inside mids who could move into this role, perhaps Dangerfield so that he doesn't have to play the battering ram all game.

As for Petrenko I agree completely, which is why I suggested in another thread that Riley might become a better option in that role, with the added benefit that Riley could move into the midfield to give others some rest up forward.

 

[beartoo]

Yeah, agree with all that Martin's best shot will be as a small forward capable of running through the midfield. I reckon Vince as well as Pets will be feeling hot breath upon their necks.
We do have some great problems. Selection night b4 R1 would be worth seeing.

 

[Slippery Pete]

You trying to emulate Cro-mo just isn’t working. Well for me anyway.

It's not working for you because he's right.

 

[Slippery Pete]

The Shirley Lovers Society

That phrase just creeps me out.

 

[AFC979810]

Totally agree Vader.

Petrenko's fanatical tackling is very very good when he's 100% fit and in form. However his kicking is not at AFL and it turns to U'9's level as he almost physically shits himself while shooting for goal.

Martin has very good disposal and is a very reliable set shot at goal because unlike Petrenko he has a good kicking action. If he could apply the same physical pressure that Pets does, then I'd definitely rather see him play that role because he would then have more weapons than Petrenko.

Martin and Petrenko are two completely different players and at this stage Martin is no threat to take Pets spot in the forward line. I agree with your thoughts on Martins strengths - however this proves just how different Pets / Martin are. Wishing that Martin had Petrenko's toughness, pressure and attack on the footy is like wishing Callinan was 2 foot taller so he could take over Kurt Tippett's position.

Pets cemented his spot in our forward line last year when he played 23 games, was 2nd in our team for goal assists and 5th in our side for tackles. His entire role is to apply pressure and keep the ball inside 50. We were the 2nd highest scoring team in the league last year - he wasn't there to kick goals. If we don't perform well this year up forward it won't be because a Petrenko/Martin didn't kick enough goals - it will be because Walker/Jenkins/Porps and Callinan don't.

Also - Pet's actual goal kicking wasn't as dramatically bad as some on here say - kicking 16 goals and 14 behinds (53%).