Player Watch Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT?

[Gone Critical]

Bontempelli deserves one before Daicos if we're talking justice lmao.

Heeney been far better this year too

Agree the Bont would be very deserving. Sensational career, will be his clubs best ever (also better than anyone my club has ever had but ND may change that). But as it stands ND is a little bit ahead of Bont in likelihood for this season. May change yet.

Don't mind if you say you think Heeney is ahead this year, he is having by far a career best in his 10th season, but I think its overs to say far better. My guess is that ND overtakes him by years end.

 

[sherb]

Seems you've made up your mind, less than three years into his career.

Toot, toot!

Seems like you have too.

 

[HairyO]

Lethal is widely acknowledged as the GOAT and the best I have seen. Carey, Lockett, Hudson are next. GAJ the best of the similar type of players. Yes he has miles to go to get to their standing. He has only 2 and 1/2 years to go on so far. However if you take that 2.5 years and say is this the sort of quality he produces for 15 seasons, even if he gets no better, then he will be in the discussion.

I would argue with the idea that there is nothing he does now that hasn't been done better. He has clearly more Brownlow votes in his 1st 2 seasons that the best 20 brownlow vote getters of all time, he doubles, triples or quadruples most of them. He was a Brownlow/AFLCA placegetter season 2, (likely wins both without the late season injury). He is Brownlow fav and 2nd currently in AFLCA votes in season 3 so likely, at a minimum, places again in both. He is being assessed by the coaches and in the Brownlow so much more highly that any other modern player in his 1st 3 seasons.

He has a massive influence on games for a young player. Without him we don't come back and win against NM and without him we dont head GC yesterday, even if we lost in the end.

People had 2 Brownlows at his age. Total Brownlow votes are irrelevant because umpires only look at 3 or 4 players per team now so you need 30+ to win vs 20+ being enough 30 years ago.

Also, the fact that Matthews never won a Brownlow tells you the umpires have never been that good at picking the best players.

Bontempelli is the best player of the last 6 or 8 years and also hasnt won a Brownlow. Even coach votes arent the best because coaches have to get their votes in too early so the Sunday games wont have finished their full review.

Next up is AA which is probably the worst of all given who the selectors are and they dont even need to watch all the games.

Ive said it often but Sheezel is every bit as good and would get all the same fawning by the media if he was at Collingwood.

Daicos at the Roos wouldnt have been as good as Sheezel is. Collingwood supporters arent going to agree but you'll find heaps of non Roos or Pies supporters agreeing.

 

[Gone Critical]

Played well but to be honest the Suns didn't tag him , just backed Flanders to be as effective. Daicos had 32 and a goal, Flanders had 33 and a goal. You could argue that either were the better player on the day, probably Flanders early and Daicos late. You can still get $4.00 at Ladbrokes for him to win the brownlow. Cripps at $6.00 might come in tomorrow if he monsters the Tigers.

Flanders was great yesterday. He has upped his game, is getting plenty of the ball as GC 4th mid, an uncontested connector who is very good. Reckon yesterday he may get Brownlow votes for the 2nd time in his 88 game career. Still if you really reckon he was as effective as ND yesterday you need to show me not just numbers but standout play.

I can name 4 special bits of play from ND that resulted in Collingwood goals that probably don't happen if it was any other player on the ground

• the left foot pass, floated over an opponent to Josh, who goals
• The smothered ball hr recollects and then feeds on ending with Bobby Hill
• the weighted pass to Jeremy Howe 25 m out
• the 3 possession play where in the end in sidestepped through Rowell for a goal

He also kicked another set shot goal

If Flanders has a piece of play like any of these in his career it will go down in his memory of one of his highlights. No knock to Flanders but Nick does these every week

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Flanders was great yesterday. He has upped his game, is getting plenty of the ball as GC 4th mid, an uncontested connector who is very good. Reckon yesterday he may get Brownlow votes for the 2nd time in his 88 game career. Still if you really reckon he was as effective as ND yesterday you need to show me not just numbers but standout play.

I can name 4 special bits of play from ND that resulted in Collingwood goals that probably don't happen if it was any other player on the ground

• the left foot pass, floated over an opponent to Josh, who goals
• The smothered ball hr recollects and then feeds on ending with Bobby Hill
• the weighted pass to Jeremy Howe 25 m out
• the 3 possession play where in the end in sidestepped through Rowell for a goal

He also kicked another set shot goal

If Flanders has a piece of play like any of these in his career it will go down in his memory of one of his highlights. No knock to Flanders but Nick does these every week

Flanders was the best player on the best team. Just because Nicky did a nice sidestep and staged for a free doesn't make much difference.

I also thought Collins had a better game than Nick, though down in defense he won't get the plaudits or votes.

 

[Gone Critical]

That is quite simply the most ridiculous claim I have seen during my short time on bigfooty.

Pendles real greatness is sustained quality over such a long period. He is a great of the game but was never the dominant mid in the game for a period of time.

Of the modern mids of his era Martin, Fyfe, Danger, Swan, GAJ, Judd, Neale and Bont's best would rate above Pendles best. Its rarified air but Nick is already in that discussion. Pendles as great as he is was limited by not being a gaol kicking threat as a mid and all the very best, the very best are. Brownlow wise, an award his game is very suited to, he has a handful of top 10 placings but never threatened to win it.

Its no knock on Pendles , he is superb, but just a fraction below the very best mids. On the Selwood, Sam Mitchell etc level.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Pendles real greatness is sustained quality over such a long period. He is a great of the game but was never the dominant mid in the game for a period of time.

Of the modern mids of his era Martin, Fyfe, Danger, Swan, GAJ, Judd, Neale and Bont's best would rate above Pendles best. Its rarified air but Nick is already in that discussion. Pendles as great as he is was limited by not being a gaol kicking threat as a mid and all the very best, the very best are. Brownlow wise, an award his game is very suited to, he has a handful of top 10 placings but never threatened to win it.

Its no knock on Pendles , he is superb, but just a fraction below the very best mids. On the Selwood, Sam Mitchell etc level.

Fadge about to have an all time melt at this. Pendles is the greatest player of this generation according to old boy.

 

[Fadge]

Fadge about to have an all time melt at this. Pendles is the greatest player of this generation according to old boy.

Despite me having never said that...

 

[beerbandit]

Exactly. Stats merchant. Anyone that actually watches the games will tell you hes a front runner who sooks it up as soon as the going gets tough.

Crisp has basically carried him over the last month or so and before that the midfield was at full strength.

Current players I’m taking over Daicos: Bont, Dawson, Heeney, Petracca, Rowell, Butters, Rozee, Gulden, Serong and maybe Warner(definitely on current form) Some in their prime, some around the same age. Some big bodies, some around the same body type as Daicos.

He gets hyped up way too much for the smallest things and these other blokes do it week on week with zero fanfare.

This is single handedly the most stupid post I have seen on BF, and I’ve seen some stupid posts dating back to 2006.

Your taking all those players over a 21 year old whom has claims to the best player in the game, I think it’s pretty clear that most would take either Bont or Daicos, but if they are lined up on a wall and you are taking Daicos every day of the year as he has another 10-15 years ahead of him.

I look forward to reminding you how stupid this post is for the foreseeable future.

Thank you kindly

 

[Gone Critical]

People had 2 Brownlows at his age. Total Brownlow votes are irrelevant because umpires only look at 3 or 4 players per team now so you need 30+ to win vs 20+ being enough 30 years ago.

Also, the fact that Matthews never won a Brownlow tells you the umpires have never been that good at picking the best players.

Bontempelli is the best player of the last 6 or 8 years and also hasnt won a Brownlow. Even coach votes arent the best because coaches have to get their votes in too early so the Sunday games wont have finished their full review.

Next up is AA which is probably the worst of all given who the selectors are and they dont even need to watch all the games.

Ive said it often but Sheezel is every bit as good and would get all the same fawning by the media if he was at Collingwood.

Daicos at the Roos wouldnt have been as good as Sheezel is. Collingwood supporters arent going to agree but you'll find heaps of non Roos or Pies supporters agreeing.

If you understand anything about numbers and assessing them you will understand using individual winners in a given year is a poor metric to assess the Brownlow. Much better to assess career votes.

Matthews is top 10 all time even though he played in an era that was not so mid dominant and his game and style meant he missed votes at times. He still got clearly more Brownlow votes than any other player of his era.

Bont isnt clearly the best player of the last 6-8 years. Of the mids Martin, Danger, Fyfe, Neale are all in that conversation. Look at their votes per game Fyfe 0.9, Danger 0.84. Bont 0.83, Neale 0.82 and Matin 0.78 and you can spread a blanket over them. The great mids get a lot of Brownlow votes virtually without exception. Likewise in this era they get a lot of coaches votes because they are playing in a midfeld era. The Brownlow and Coaches award have a very high correlation for assessing the same group of players in their top 10 each season.

Sheezel is a stunning young player and agree on a similar trajectory to ND. I would argue not quite as good but stunning just that same. Sam Walsh barring injury could be similar and Ashcroft certainly would. We have a real group of young players who have burst onto the scene very quickly the last seasons, unprecedented almost. But ND pretty clearly stands as the best one.

 

[Gone Critical]

Flanders was the best player on the best team. Just because Nicky did a nice sidestep and staged for a free doesn't make much difference.

I also thought Collins had a better game than Nick, though down in defense he won't get the plaudits or votes.

I think you show your bias there. I would be very happy to argue the merits of Daicos v Walsh cause I think they both will go down as all time greats, barring injury. They will have great battles for many years. Flanders had a great day yesterday , arguably career best, but even in doing that its kinda silly to argue he had bits of play that just made spectators have a double take. Thats not in his game,. Its in Curnows, Walsh, Danger, Martin, Cripps, Pendles etc to name a few. Nick had it on display yesterday and I am surprised you couldnt see it.

To limit your praise of Nick yesterday to a nice sidestep and staging says to me you you are not genuine.

I am probably overexcited by Nick cause he looks so special but I am not really one for running down players I think are pretty special just because they don't play for my team.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I think you show your bias there. I would be very happy to argue the merits of Daicos v Walsh cause I think they both will go down as all time greats, barring injury. They will have great battles for many years. Flanders had a great day yesterday , arguably career best, but even in doing that its kinda silly to argue he had bits of play that just made spectators have a double take. Thats not in his game,. Its in Curnows, Walsh, Danger, Martin, Cripps, Pendles etc to name a few. Nick had it on display yesterday and I am surprised you couldnt see it.

To limit your praise of Nick yesterday to a nice sidestep and staging says to me you you are not genuine.

I am probably overexcited by Nick cause he looks so special but I am not really one for running down players I think are pretty special just because they don't play for my team.

I don't like him because he's a stager and has a history of squibbing contests. Those other names you mentioned don't take a backwards step and thus I hold them all in high regard as players. Dropping knees and accentuating contact for free kicks is not respectable play imo. It's embarrassing stuff.

Fisher was one of our own who loved dropping his knees and I'm glad we got rid of him. Pies supporters seem to have selective vision when it comes to Nick, seemingly most are incapable of admitting that he's a blatant stager.

 

[Fadge]

I don't like him because he's a stager and has a history of squibbing contests. Those other names you mentioned don't take a backwards step and thus I hold them all in high regard as players. Dropping knees and accentuating contact for free kicks is not respectable play imo. It's embarrassing stuff.

Fisher was one of our own who loved dropping his knees and I'm glad we got rid of him. Pies supporters seem to have selective vision when it comes to Nick, seemingly most are incapable of admitting that he's a blatant stager.

Did you see Gary Ablett Senior play, and if so, what is your assessment of him?

 

[beerbandit]

Did you see Gary Ablett Senior play, and if so, what is your assessment of him?

With a username that states Walsh is the GOAT, I dare say he didn’t watch GAS play

 

[Professor Knowall]

I don't like him because he's a stager … when it comes to Nick, seemingly most are incapable of admitting that he's a blatant stager.

You’re very confused - you’ve somehow mistaken Charlie Curnow for Nick.

 

[Fadge]

You’re very confused - you’ve somehow mistaken Charlie Curnow for Nick.

Great point. Would be interesting to hear his assessment of Curnow in that regard...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

To compare the free's Curnow gets to the ducks Daicos gets awarded for is laughable. Curnow competes in the contest and umpires pay him sometimes soft free kicks. Daicos drops his knees, throws his head back and swings his arm up like his best mate Ginni.
This is an every game occurrence for him.

 

[Fadge]

To compare the free's Curnow gets to the ducks Daicos gets awarded for is laughable. Curnow competes in the contest and umpires pay him sometimes soft free kicks. Daicos drops his knees, throws his head back and swings his arm up like his best mate Ginni.
This is an every game occurrence for him.

Thanks for your completely unbiased perspective.

Now, my Ablett Snr question?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Did you see Gary Ablett Senior play, and if so, what is your assessment of him?

I'm too young to have followed Senior's whole career. But from the replays I watched of his in a few big finals he was certainly a lot tougher than Nicholas. By a long way. Junior was too.

 

[Fadge]

I'm too young to have followed Senior's whole career. But from the replays I watched of his in a few big finals he was certainly a lot tougher than Nicholas. By a long way. Junior was too.

So no comment about his propensity to ensure umpires noticed infringements against him? (and I rate Ablett Snr. as the best player I have ever seen).

 

[beerbandit]

I'm too young to have followed Senior's whole career. But from the replays I watched of his in a few big finals he was certainly a lot tougher than Nicholas. By a long way. Junior was too.

Best to reply , no I can’t comment if you didn’t watch him play mate

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So no comment about his propensity to ensure umpires noticed infringements against him? (and I rate Ablett Snr. as the best player I have ever seen).

Didn't notice it too much, no. Probably the same as Lloyd with his in the back antics, they were mostly overexaggerated, but they weren't as blatant as Daicos, Ginnivan, Weightman, Dylan Moore etc these days. That's my opinion on it.

I have 0 respect for players who blatantly drop their knees and go down like they've been shot in the ass by a sniper every chance they can to draw free kicks. When Nick removes that garbage from his game I'm sure I'll view him in higher standings.

 

[Fadge]

When Nick removes that garbage from his game I'm sure I'll view him in higher standings.

And I'm sure that will mean a lot to him.

But your bias has been called out and is very clear.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

And I'm sure that will mean a lot to him.

But your bias has been called out and is very clear.

Can you admit that he consistently stages for free kicks? Or will bias and adoration get in the way of such an admission?

 

[Fadge]

Can you admit that he consistently stages for free kicks? Or will bias and adoration get in the way of such an admission?

He does it less regularly than the likes of Curnow does, and Ablett Senior did, albeit in different ways.