Player Watch Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT?

[Lunchtime]

No mate he had a stinker because whilst he got his hands on it a lot, he did absolutely **** all with it. In fact I've said he probably helped our cause. Sidebottom and Pendles much more effective, and then there's the blokes on the winning team. How anyone had him in the votes on Friday is why awards are virtually meaningless now

So you want to see all awards phased out if they are meaningless?

 

[Arr0w]

So you want to see all awards phased out if they are meaningless?

Is it really definitive of the number 1 player in a season, let alone goat status?

Most if not all is to keep media interest ticking over

Most important award is a BnF, IMHO

 

[Gone Critical]

Did cuddles Macrae give him more coaches votes this week?

Geez he’s had an outstanding year but Craggles does his best to prop him up in his lesser games.

Either Scott or McRae did. One gave Sidey the 2 votes and one gave Daicos. No way to know which.

 

[Gone Critical]

Lazy 2 votes. It's endemic. Sunday footy show had him third best player on the ground. Pies fans think he was their best player. Blind freddie could tell you he had a stinker on Friday

As mentioned no one knows if Mcrae gave his 2 to Sidey or Daicos.

 

[Gone Critical]

You think he was Collingwoods best?
I had Crisp and Sidebottom ahead of him.
Pendles on par.

Then there was the winning teams best players.

I definitely had Sidey ahead then it was close but I would have given it to Nick. In a 2 goal win Ess players got 22 coaches votes and Coll 8. Seems about right. I would expect Ess to get all the Brownlow votes althogh small chance Sidey might get 1. Seems fair.

 

[Gone Critical]

sidebottom was 3rd best on after merrett & caldwell for mine.

merrett had more score involvements than naicos had effective disposals (aka not turned over).

dont get me wrong, i think he’s a good player, but his performance on the weekend was an example of what’s wrong with coaches votes & brownlow votes for midfielders. bigger number = played better, right?

Why. 8 players got votes, he clearly wasnt in the best 3 but did enough to be in the best handful. Its where most experts rated his game. He wont get Brownlow votes it would seem and if thats true the voting in the 2 awards seem to have it spot on.

 

[Inspecta Gadget]

Why. 8 players got votes, he clearly wasnt in the best 3 but did enough to be in the best handful. Its where most experts rated his game. He wont get Brownlow votes it would seem and if thats true the voting in the 2 awards seem to have it spot on.

Who says he won't get Brownlow votes? His performance certainly conned enough people going by the reactions

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The fact Nick got votes ahead of Durham who whooped is ass on the winning team really says it all.
Not the first time Fly has done it either.

 

[mcgrath_truther]

Why. 8 players got votes, he clearly wasnt in the best 3 but did enough to be in the best handful. Its where most experts rated his game. He wont get Brownlow votes it would seem and if thats true the voting in the 2 awards seem to have it spot on.

even in the pies camp he wasn't the best from my eye. pendlebury, crisp, sidebottom and hoskin-elliot all had vastly better games than he did.

 

[Fadge]

Who says he won't get Brownlow votes? His performance certainly conned enough people going by the reactions

I would laugh if he got 2 votes behind Merrett.

Merrett was miles better than anyone else on the ground - why on earth we didn't tag him, I don't know - but there wasn't much between the next few (as the Coaches votes suggest).

 

[Gone Critical]

Is it really definitive of the number 1 player in a season, let alone goat status?

Most if not all is to keep media interest ticking over

Most important award is a BnF, IMHO

They are the best 2 awards IMHO and they correlate very strongly. Because its such a midfielders game these days both are midfielders awards. If we went back to the 60s 70s 80s and 90s the style of game gave other positions more chance.

Still if you rate B&Fs most highly thats fine and the best B&F is a B&F in a premiership team

Now we know when Nick went down with injury late 2023 he was clearly leading both the coaches award and the Brownlow. Its pretty fair to speculate the injury likely cost him both awards. B&Fs are usaually far more impacted by missed games and if you play 4 less games than teamates it becomes very hard to win. We know Nick was even further in front in the Copeland when injured and he would have won if not injured.

The voting in our B&F gives you 1 vote from a judge if they assessed you just played your role and there are 5 judges. Josh won with 301 votes and Nick had 287. If each of the 5 coaches giving votes assessed him as just playing his role he would have 5 votes a game. He missed 4 games. He didnt need to even make a significant contribution (2 votes) or play a high end game (3 votes). He wins by turning up and playing his role.

Av votes per game for Copeland 2023 for top 5

Nick 13.04

Josh 11.57
Maynard 11.48
Mitchell 10.88
Pendles 11.28

So on the award you rate highest Nick would have won a flag B&F in 23 without injury and he will be a mile ahead in 2024. So he is excellent on the award you rate the most

 

[Gone Critical]

Who says he won't get Brownlow votes? His performance certainly conned enough people going by the reactions

Its my opinion. I don't think any Collingwood player will vote. Do you think one will?

 

[Sector 7G]

I definitely had Sidey ahead then it was close but I would have given it to Nick. In a 2 goal win Ess players got 22 coaches votes and Coll 8. Seems about right. I would expect Ess to get all the Brownlow votes althogh small chance Sidey might get 1. Seems fair.

The score line flattered the Pies (as it did with Carlton a day later). When you go 5 goals down half way through the last it is a poor performance that a few junk time goal don't erase. No Pie had a game worthy of any coaches votes

 

[Arr0w]

They are the best 2 awards IMHO and they correlate very strongly. Because its such a midfielders game these days both are midfielders awards. If we went back to the 60s 70s 80s and 90s the style of game gave other positions more chance.

Still doesn't equate to a definitive best player for the season

Still if you rate B&Fs most highly thats fine and the best B&F is a B&F in a premiership team

Now we know when Nick went down with injury late 2023 he was clearly leading both the coaches award and the Brownlow. Its pretty fair to speculate the injury likely cost him both awards. B&Fs are usaually far more impacted by missed games and if you play 4 less games than teamates it becomes very hard to win. We know Nick was even further in front in the Copeland when injured and he would have won if not injured.

Or, goatie may have had 3 games like the start of the season, so that's the problem with assuming or projection

The voting in our B&F gives you 1 vote from a judge if they assessed you just played your role and there are 5 judges. Josh won with 301 votes and Nick had 287. If each of the 5 coaches giving votes assessed him as just playing his role he would have 5 votes a game. He missed 4 games. He didnt need to even make a significant contribution (2 votes) or play a high end game (3 votes). He wins by turning up and playing his role.

Av votes per game for Copeland 2023 for top 5

Nick 13.04

Josh 11.57
Maynard 11.48
Mitchell 10.88
Pendles 11.28

So on the award you rate highest Nick would have won a flag B&F in 23 without injury and he will be a mile ahead in 2024. So he is excellent on the award you rate the most

Potentially yes, and that would have been a great honour for him

 

[Gone Critical]

And u haven't answered mine. Why was he kicking balls off the deck if he wasn't afraid of incoming contact?

I was at the game on Friday so decided to watch the replay today to answer your question properly. Mainly it reinforced my thoughts while I was at the match

1. We were flattered by the scoreboard, Essendon were much better than the 2 goal win suggests
2. Merrett was BOG by the length of the straight
3. Draper was very influential
4. De Goey very disappointing, Lipinski a non event and Josh D no influence were the Collingwood players who really let us down. Crisp apart from the 3 goals which were great was poor. Sidey and Pendles were manful.

5. Nick D. Good 1st half, did some influential things and had plenty of the ball. Collingwoods best to half time and 2nd best on ground after Merrett. 3rd Q Ess went to work on him. Plenty of effort to quell him, particularly by Durham and Shiel and it worked. He was a non event for the 1st 20min, got 3 clearances late in the Q with hard work but was under pressure and were nothing disposals. No kicks off the ground to this point. Influence almost zero.

4th Q did a bit better, had 2 shots on goal that would have made a real difference but neither came close. There were 2 kicks off the ground that I could count. The 1st early in the Q was when he and Shiel were bodying each other, the ball dropped to their feet and Daicos hacked if forward. There was no oncoming traffic or threat of contact, it was just an attempt to get a ball in dispute moving forward. 2nd was similar, Durham and Daicos holding at a clearance, ball drops to their feet, as on 1st occasional neither was in a position to grab the ball and Daicos kicked it off the ground, ineffectual. Again no in a position where there wan oncomiing traffic or risk of contact. I have previously commented on the step over the boundary, a miscalculation and mistake by Daicos, a bad one, but nothing to do with a fear of being tackled, he wasnt at any risk of significant contact so why would he worry.

Collingwood had few good players, Sidey clear best after reviewing and Pendles and Daicos next. I wouldnt have given anyone other than Sidet coaches votes but the 1's and 2's are often a close thing so wont quibble that CDaicos and pendles got something. The surprise to me was one of the coaches saw Crisp as 3rd best. My suspicion is it was McRae who gave Sidey 2 and Scott 2 to Daicos as I thought Sidey was the one who closest played to the style Fly wants and I recon apart from Pendles no one else gave much in the 2nd half

I cant find your dozen scrubbers and I cant find a kick off the ground that suggests he was afraid of oncoming contact. The only 2 kicks I found off the ground didnt involve any oncoming traffic.

Thats about all I got on this. Any answers to my question?

 

[Fadge]

Or, goatie may have had 3 games like the start of the season, so that's the problem with assuming or projection

What, where he was comfortably Collingwood's best in two of them, and could possibly get some Brownlow votes despite being on the end of some disappointing losses?

 

[Gone Critical]

The score line flattered the Pies (as it did with Carlton a day later). When you go 5 goals down half way through the last it is a poor performance that a few junk time goal don't erase. No Pie had a game worthy of any coaches votes

See my post above. Flattered us greatly. Sidey deserved a vote or 2. Just had a quick look back at last 32 AFL games. 8 of them, 25%, had games where all the coaches votes went to one team. Most of them were very one sided matches. As much as Ess were clearly better it no a biggie that Coll got a few of the coaches votes, I do agree I would have given us less than we got.

 

[Gone Critical]

Still doesn't equate to a definitive best player for the season

Agreed, but its the closest thing we have

 

[Gone Critical]

Or, goatie may have had 3 games like the start of the season, so that's the problem with assuming or projection

As to the Copeland I think you haven't understod the system. if he had 3 games like the start of the season it would have easily got him past Josh. Basically 5 coaches each have 22 votes in total to give. Say one coach assesses 10 players as having played their role, each gets 1 vote, then they have 3 players they say did something more significant than just their role they get 2 and then say 2 players had high end games they get 3. 22 votes. In this example 15 of the 23 players have received votes. It can be done in any combo the coach chooses but lots of players get votes in any given round. Most AFL B&F work with similar systems.

In 2 of Nicks 1st 3 games this year he was the only Collingwood player in the coaches votes so would have probably picked up 30 + votes in the Copeland. A performance like that would have easily passed Josh. Even if he had done much less he would have passed him because the number of player who get votes in any round is very high.

Much more predicatable he would have won compared to Brownlow etc

 

[Arr0w]

What, where he was comfortably Collingwood's best in two of them, and could possibly get some Brownlow votes despite being on the end of some disappointing losses?

We will find out soon enough

 

[Arr0w]

As to the Copeland I think you haven't understod the system. if he had 3 games like the start of the season it would have easily got him past Josh. Basically 5 coaches each have 22 votes in total to give. Say one coach assesses 10 players as having played their role, each gets 1 vote, then they have 3 players they say did something more significant than just their role they get 2 and then say 2 players had high end games they get 3. 22 votes. In this example 15 of the 23 players have received votes. It can be done in any combo the coach chooses but lots of players get votes in any given round. Most AFL B&F work with similar systems.

In 2 of Nicks 1st 3 games this year he was the only Collingwood player in the coaches votes so would have probably picked up 30 + votes in the Copeland. A performance like that would have easily passed Josh. Even if he had done much less he would have passed him because the number of player who get votes in any round is very high.

Much more predicatable he would have won compared to Brownlow etc

Not questioning BnF voting, I understand how it works, my comments were more around other awards that are competion wide

So, we can't make the assumption that he definitely would have won other awards last year if he wasn't injured, especially if he doesn't attract pointy end votes in the first 3 games this year

It would be like me saying Walsh would be 3rd in the coaches award, based on average votes per game, if he didn't miss the first 4 games of the year

 

[Gone Critical]

Not questioning BnF voting, I understand how it works, my comments were more around other awards that are competion wide

So, we can't make the assumption that he definitely would have won other awards last year if he wasn't injured, especially if he doesn't attract pointy end votes in the first 3 games this year

It would be like me saying Walsh would be 3rd in the coaches award, based on average votes per game, if he didn't miss the first 4 games of the year

I agree you cant extrapolate those 2 with certainty just he would have been a very good chance to win them if not injured.

The Walsh analogy is slightly different because Daicos was clearly leading both awards late in the season before he got injured. But I think its still true to make the point that injuries have robbed Walsh of the chance to be close to the lead in the coaches award and so mount a strong finish to the season and potentially win it.

The B&F Daicos would have almost certainly won.

 

[beerbandit]

Did cuddles Macrae give him more coaches votes this week?

Geez he’s had an outstanding year but Craggles does his best to prop him up in his lesser games.

Do you have a breakdown on what coaches have voted for which player?

Otherwise this is a very silly post.

 

[HairyO]

As mentioned no one knows if Mcrae gave his 2 to Sidey or Daicos.

We all know. It happens regularly, where Daicos gets a couple of votes despite being far below the best 5 or 6 players on the ground.

The idea that its always opposition coaches and never McCrae simply makes no sense. One is trying to drive up the performance of his star pupil, the others are worried about their own team and assigning opposition player votes based on their actual performance.

Its far easier to have a conspiracy of one over a conspiracy of many.

 

[woodsmen0302]

Not GOAT yet but kid has bags of potential and could end up there I think. Up there with best footy IQ in the comp and the only weeks he's not our best is when he's got a hard tag and being held every contest.

Oppo fans do me a favour and watch him for 5 minutes at the contest - He gets very few of the FKs he deserves, I think it's because of the spotlight on every one in his favour.