Player Watch Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT?

[Vindicater]

Insane comment from Chris Scott today when asked his plans for Nick Daicos.

'Actually, I would prefer he wasn’t in the team and then we wouldn’t have to spend 5 hours trying to work out what to do with him'.

Wow just wow.

Just call your brother.

 

[Arr0w]

Judd the only one of the draft era who can compare, and it's well in Nick's favour.

There are others that have been mentioned, pointless to keep rehashing

He's probably copping as much if not more attention than any other mid in the comp - not exactly common for third year players.

Perhaps, along with the likes of Judd, but last week it wasn't just a hard tag, moreso tighter attention to your whole midfield, Goatie just wasn't left alone like other sides have done, apart from the Demons which didn't effect the outcome

Who knows what the future will bring and how much he improves from here, but it's been an extraordinary start to his career.

It's been a wonderful start, and I'm sure with maturity he will clean up a couple of areas that will take him to a different level

 

[Gone Critical]

Again, I did not state that he wasn't amongst the best players . Just not numero uno in my opinion

You can play that game but if your intention was to have him amongst the top few then you wouldn't be saying his coach had unfairly inflated his standing and no one creditable would rank him top.

 

[Gone Critical]

It's been a wonderful start, and I'm sure with maturity he will clean up a couple of areas that will take him to a different level

Seriously if this is just the precursor and we are going to see him go to higher levels then the GOAT argument will be done and dusted. I thought the argument would be more he is a young player who has had a great start but will come back to the field.

Personally I would be rapt if he could hold the current level for a decade

 

[sr36]

It's been a wonderful start, and I'm sure with maturity he will clean up a couple of areas that will take him to a different level

If he does that, he will be the greatest of the modern era - hence it not being a ridiculous question in the thread title.

Obviously calling him the greatest of all time now would be ridiculous, but that's not what Pies fans are doing. The nuffies are the ones saying that he's not the greatest yet, therefore he's no chance.

 

[Worm4]

You can play that game but if your intention was to have him amongst the top few then you wouldn't be saying his coach had unfairly inflated his standing and no one creditable would rank him top.

We can go back and forth forever . Are going to continue to misquote me moving forward , or just accept that i think he a great player, just not currently the best in the game at the moment.

 

[Gone Critical]

We can go back and forth forever . Are going to continue to misquote me moving forward , or just accept that i think he a great player, just not currently the best in the game at the moment.

If thats the case we would have him at the same level virtually. What I wonder then is where does the idea that McRae is unfairly inflating Daicos's votes etc come from. Surely if you think he is a great player you would accept he could be near the top of the various awards on merit.

 

[Gone Critical]

If he does that, he will be the greatest of the modern era - hence it not being a ridiculous question in the thread title.

Obviously calling him the greatest of all time now would be ridiculous, but that's not what Pies fans are doing. The nuffies are the ones saying that he's not the greatest yet, therefore he's no chance.

Great minds and fools

 

[sr36]

If thats the case we would have him at the same level virtually. What I wonder then is where does the idea that McRae is unfairly inflating Daicos's votes etc come from. Surely if you think he is a great player you would accept he could be near the top of the various awards on merit.

Someone made that claim in this thread and then others have run with it. The claim came whilst he had a run of 9 or 10 vote games - meaning the other coach also voted for him.

 

[janty]

How many seconds after tonight's game starts will this thread get bumped?

 

[Arr0w]

Seriously if this is just the precursor and we are going to see him go to higher levels then the GOAT argument will be done and dusted. I thought the argument would be more he is a young player who has had a great start but will come back to the field.

Personally I would be rapt if he could hold the current level for a decade

If he does that, he will be the greatest of the modern era - hence it not being a ridiculous question in the thread title.

Obviously calling him the greatest of all time now would be ridiculous, but that's not what Pies fans are doing. The nuffies are the ones saying that he's not the greatest yet, therefore he's no chance.

When I say different level, it wasn't about personal improvement/achievements, it was about contributing to fully embracing team ethos

 

[Worm4]

If thats the case we would have him at the same level virtually. What I wonder then is where does the idea that McRae is unfairly inflating Daicos's votes etc come from. Surely if you think he is a great player you would accept he could be near the top of the various awards on merit.

He would be near the top, I just don't inflate Nick's status as the best as other posters notoriously do

 

[mcgrath_truther]

How many seconds after tonight's game starts will this thread get bumped?

5 seconds after his first touch

 

[Gone Critical]

Someone made that claim in this thread and then others have run with it. The claim came whilst he had a run of 9 or 10 vote games - meaning the other coach also voted for him.

I know the silliness of it makes ma laugh. It was pretty classic from last week when McRae and Scott between them gave Nick and Sidey the 2 votes. Of course it had to be Fly giving it to Daicos not Scott cause there is no way Fly would give Sidey a vote. I mean Sidey would be a bloke Fly wouldn't cross the road to say hello to let alone give him votes.

 

[beerbandit]

If Daicos doesn't take home any of the major awards again this year will Pies fans still blindly state that he's the best player in the league? I suspect yes.

I don’t think it’s just Pies fans Walshy. A lot of neutrals also think he is the best player in the game. Being at the ground watching Collingwood play week in week out and hearing the chat amongst oppo fans is that he is rated at the top of the pile.

Personally I believe, throw a blanket over Daicos, Bont and Cripps.

The thing is the age difference. I personally don’t remember anyone having the influence on games he does so early on in a career, he has started better then Judd.

 

[Gone Critical]

When I say different level, it wasn't about personal improvement/achievements, it was about contributing to fully embracing team ethos

So becoming a more complete team player wouldn't enhance his personal improvement?

 

[Gone Critical]

He would be near the top, I just don't inflate Nick's status as the best as other posters notoriously do

I don't have him as the best player in the game, far too early for that. He has been if not at the top for 23-24 then just a little behind whichever players you have above him. Still doesn't explain why you reckon he doesn't deserve to get the coaches votes he gets.

 

[Gone Critical]

So becoming a more complete team player wouldn't enhance his personal improvement?

Sorry I might be being a dick so apologise. However I doubt Nick can hold the level of 23-24 throughout his career, I think its too tough to be at that level year in year out. He will have years that are much lesser than 23-24 almost certainly. Maybe some seasons could outdo the last 2 but thats a high bar.

 

[Worm4]

Sorry I might be being a dick so apologise. However I doubt Nick can hold the level of 23-24 throughout his career, I think its too tough to be at that level year in year out. He will have years that are much lesser than 23-24 almost certainly. Maybe some seasons could outdo the last 2 but thats a high bar.

This might sound a bit stupid, but if he can get some more help at the coalface from Degoey and perhaps a couple of others ( not going to include pendlebury as he is almost done) then his stats might actually wind down a bit. Poor kid is going to be cooked by the time he hits 25 if he doesn't get the required help

 

[Gone Critical]

This might sound a bit stupid, but if he can get some more help at the coalface from Degoey and perhaps a couple of others ( not going to include pendlebury as he is almost done) then his stats might actually wind down a bit. Poor kid is going to be cooked by the time he hits 25 if he doesn't get the required help

Yeah I don't disagree with that. For mine apart from obvious ability the thing that has propelled him quickly is a relentless drive to be involved contest after contest. That usually comes with maturity. It raises the question does he cook himself early. A risk of almost the counter to how GAJs career ran.

 

[Arr0w]

So becoming a more complete team player wouldn't enhance his personal improvement?

It would make him a more complete player, but may not reach all those personal awards people froth over

 

[CarmenSandiego]

I don’t think it’s just Pies fans Walshy. A lot of neutrals also think he is the best player in the game. Being at the ground watching Collingwood play week in week out and hearing the chat amongst oppo fans is that he is rated at the top of the pile.

Personally I believe, throw a blanket over Daicos, Bont and Cripps.

The thing is the age difference. I personally don’t remember anyone having the influence on games he does so early on in a career, he has started better then Judd.

Yeah, pretty much this for me.

He's on par with the best in the game currently, but the others have been in the system 7-8 years longer than him. He also was injured for his draft year, it's freakish.

He's the best pure footballer in the league imo, but lacks that freakish height & athleticism of the modern era - which is hardly his fault and probably a harsh judge of me.

If he can build the core strength & evasiveness of GAJ, then no reason he can't mimic his career. He's currently looking at 2 from 3 AA selections at age of 21..

 

[Gone Critical]

It would make him a more complete player, but may not reach all those personal awards people froth over

Individual awards have a place in assessment but I reckon people look at them the wrong way.

My view

Historically individual awards have been the domain of the best players and all parts of the team had some chance, goal kicking totals helped FF assessment. Now they are mainly the way to assess mids and players with lots of game involvement. As the game has become more midfield centric the value of great mids has risen at the expense of great rucks and KPP.

So Brownlow/ AFLCA is mainly a mid award and can be useful in defining the great mids. Its not done by looking at an individual year. Far too many variables involved. Its also why its wrong saying Lethal not winning one has some significance in diminishing it. He got more votes than any player in his era, is top 10 all time and is right at the top of votes per game in his era. The Brownlow recognises his greatness even if people miss it.

Nowadays virtually all the great mids are very high on votes per game and no interlopers sneak in. So don't look at Lachie Neale beating Bont last year as having some serious meaning, it doesn't in assessing greatness. Look to see Neale has 187 career votes 13th all time and 0.82 votes per game. Bont 169 votes, 23rd all time at 0.83 votes per game. It places them up with the very best of all time and can hardly separate them which is about where it seems they should be. This works pretty well looking at all the modern great mids.

 

[Arr0w]

Individual awards have a place in assessment but I reckon people look at them the wrong way.

My view

Historically individual awards have been the domain of the best players and all parts of the team had some chance, goal kicking totals helped FF assessment. Now they are mainly the way to assess mids and players with lots of game involvement. As the game has become more midfield centric the value of great mids has risen at the expense of great rucks and KPP.

So Brownlow/ AFLCA is mainly a mid award and can be useful in defining the great mids. Its not done by looking at an individual year. Far too many variables involved. Its also why its wrong saying Lethal not winning one has some significance in diminishing it. He got more votes than any player in his era, is top 10 all time and is right at the top of votes per game in his era. The Brownlow recognises his greatness even if people miss it.

Nowadays virtually all the great mids are very high on votes per game and no interlopers sneak in. So don't look at Lachie Neale beating Bont last year as having some serious meaning, it doesn't in assessing greatness. Look to see Neale has 187 career votes 13th all time and 0.82 votes per game. Bont 169 votes, 23rd all time at 0.83 votes per game. It places them up with the very best of all time and can hardly separate them which is about where it seems they should be. This works pretty well looking at all the modern great mids.

I don't assess players by votes, awards, etc, that's more of a d1ck measuring exercise, rather than articulating the why, although that's still opinion based

 

[Fadge]

I don't assess players by votes, awards, etc, that's more of a d1ck measuring exercise, rather than articulating the why, although that's still opinion based

As one of Daicos' 'harshest critics', where do you rate him over the 2023/24 time period that has been discussed, based on your 'articulation of the why' criteria (ignoring votes, awards, etc.)?