Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2022, part II

[kittypurry]

I guess we shouldn't lose sight of Clarko and Fagan's right to the presumption of innocence here.

That card will be played by the two of them, the AFL, and probably the NMFC too.

It is but a series of allegations at this point, though damning.....especially in light of Rioli's departure too.

F*ck them.

What Clarkson and Fagan did is pure f*cking evil.

They literally bullied an Indigenous women into getting an unwanted abortion and caused so much trauma that another Indigenous women miscarried and lay in a hospital bed alone because the Hawks isolated her partner from her. And that is only mentioning two of the deeply f*cking deranged incidents.

By the way, presumption of innocence is only applicable in a court of law. We are not in a court of law. We can think whatever we like. Considering that there are three families which were torn to shreds by the Hawks, that the player's association is giving these families counselling because the memories of what Clarkson and Fagan did to them are so insanely traumatic it is creating a suicide risk, and that the ABC is willing to publicly name names, I'd say we are well passed presuming that Clarkson and Fagan are innocent.

To presume Clarkson and Fagan are innocent in the face of such staggering evidence is to continue to traumatise the victims. I think they've been through enough. Don't you?

Like I said, Clarkson and Fagan are pure f*cking evil.

What Collingwood did to Lumumba rightly got Eddie and Buckley sacked. I don't see how they survive this, as they shouldn't.

 

[cats_09]

I honestly was in shock reading this, so horrific that you wish it isn’t true, Clarkson and Fagan and Burt will have a chance to reply but if even a fraction of it is true would see their legacy tarnished and they shouldn’t be anywhere near administration in the AFL

This is the story of the year, might be the biggest since the Essendon drug saga

I know Clarkson has not long signed a 5-year deal with North Melbourne, but one would hazard a guess that there's clauses in their for both parties for early termination or breaking of the contract

Would have to think that following the release of this information North Melbourne has to get proactive, they have to have a critical look into this & not pretend it doesn't exist, and surely they'd have a good case to terminate the deal early based on player mistreatment and player welfare concerns


As for Fagan & Brisbane, he's contracted until the end of next season, but maybe they could look at making a clean break a year early - link it back to their finals record and how a new voice is needed

 

[Baudolino]

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

Horrifying. This would be one of the most worst stories in Australian sporting history if true. Utterly disgusting.

 

[Cataholic]

F*ck them.

What Clarkson and Fagan did is pure f*cking evil.

They literally bullied an Indigenous women into getting an unwanted abortion and caused so much trauma that another Indigenous women miscarried and lay in a hospital bed alone because the Hawks isolated her partner from her. And that is only mentioning two of the deeply f*cking deranged incidents.

By the way, presumption of innocence is only applicable in a court of law. We are not in a court of law. We can think whatever we like. Considering that there are three families which were torn to shreds by the Hawks, that the player's association is giving these families counselling because the memories of what Clarkson and Fagan did to them are so insanely traumatic it is creating a suicide risk, and that the ABC is willing to publicly name names, I'd say we are well passed presuming that Clarkson and Fagan are innocent.

To presume Clarkson and Fagan are innocent in the face of such staggering evidence is to continue to traumatise the victims. I think they've been through enough. Don't you?

Like I said, Clarkson and Fagan are pure f*cking evil.

What Collingwood did to Lumumba rightly got Eddie and Buckley sacked. I don't see how they survive this, as they shouldn't.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, if the allegations are proven true.

Granted, the evidence seems to be overwhelming, but Clarko and Fagan have the right of reply, and an opportunity to refute / disprove the allegations.

I don't see how, but it's a possibility.

That said, I think they should be stood down immediately, and sacked once proven.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

I know Clarkson has not long signed a 5-year deal with North Melbourne, but one would hazard a guess that there's clauses in their for both parties for early termination or breaking of the contract

Would have to think that following the release of this information North Melbourne has to get proactive, they have to have a critical look into this & not pretend it doesn't exist, and surely they'd have a good case to terminate the deal early based on player mistreatment and player welfare concerns


As for Fagan & Brisbane, he's contracted until the end of next season, but maybe they could look at making a clean break a year early - link it back to their finals record and how a new voice is needed

Regarding Clarkson and north, assuming this goes the way it looks to be heading, I'd wager the AFL will step in and fire Clarkson for them.
Likewise fagan.
Neither should coach again.

 

[Baudolino]

Horrifying. This would be one of the most worst stories in Australian sporting history if true. Utterly disgusting.

To add an obvious but important caveat to the above statement: Clarkson and Fagan are entitled to the presumption of innocence and the chance to tell their side of the story.

 

[allrighty]

10 minutes after reading...Clarkson and Fagan are finished.

They have to be.

Interesting. My prior experiences with the Hawks CEO of the time is also illuminating.

No surprises, but this is not pretty reading. Absolute scumbags.

 

[Warhorse]

ABC journalists are not dumb. Would have been run through the lawyers a bunch of times before releasing of names. Makes me think there is a lot of truth to it. Noting that this was less than a decade ago, if Geelong had done something similar I would non longer support the club. Very hard to stomach

 

[Munich]

Shit club. Always have been.

 

[James1970]

No, Nine. They own The Age and 3AW and 6PR and run the show that reliably sets the weekly agenda - a show that is presented by the head of SEN/AFL Nation (and who clearly does not like author of said book). That's a pretty big chunk of footy media!

True - there's only two chunks.

And both are now is crisis meetings in how to respond, report and follow-up on all this.

 

[catters_28]

So much for being the "Family Club."

Absolutely abhorrent.

 

[Strange Cat]

Holy hell that was hard to read

Fagan and Clarkson at the very least can’t keep their jobs

Absolutely ****ed

 

[Baudolino]

I don’t think there’s any bluffing through this.
If it’s true, Clarkson and Fagan cannot be involved with the sport ever again.

If it's true they will probably both receive lifetime bans from the sport.

But even if they don't receive lifetime bans it won't matter, as their names will be permanently radioactive within the industry. They will be utterly unemployable.

 

[Strange Cat]

To add an obvious but important caveat to the above statement: Clarkson and Fagan are entitled to the presumption of innocence and the chance to tell their side of the story.

Can’t be too much a defense to this shit

 

[Cataholic]

Regarding Clarkson and north, assuming this goes the way it looks to be heading, I'd wager the AFL will step in and fire Clarkson for them.
Likewise fagan.
Neither should coach again.

Will they though?

Do they have the strength of character, belief and integrity to do that once / if they satisfy themselves that it's true?

 

[dazbroncos]

That is a horrendous read.

And one I find hard to believe. But clearly its not a loose report or blogging. Its the ABC ffs.

I have oft posted of loathing of the Hawks but a respect as well at the same time.

If this bares out to be accurate and true..... the respect will be gone forever.

TO be fair, its not all Hawks players and coaches, its clearly just a few.... but **** me the legacy and career has to be questioned and ended if true.

GO Catters

 

[Cataholic]

If it's true they will probably both receive lifetime bans from the sport.

But even if they don't receive lifetime bans it won't matter, as their names will be permanently radioactive within the industry. They will be utterly unemployable.

What does NMFC do?

How long do they wait before deciding which way they go?

 

[Strange Cat]

What does NMFC do?

How long do they wait before deciding which way they go?

The bird are in final and saying it’s a media beat up and untrue

Absolutely scumbags and **** NORF after reading thier shit

 

[Son_Of_God29]

Seriously, there are people on the Hawk Board (Racism Thread) saying for Clarko and Fagan to call the Lawyers because it can't be true.

There is no way that the story gets published unless it was vetted to the enth degree

 

[Patchterrier]

What does NMFC do?

How long do they wait before deciding which way they go?

I genuinely can not believe what I've just read. This is an absolute disgrace and am thinking of the families that have been treated with such disdain and disrespect. I am so sorry for what you have had to experience.

Noting that individuals of course have the right of reply, rumours have been rife for a long time about Clarksons extremely poor behaviour and why a 4 time premiership coach was paid nearly a million dollars to not turn up (he is still on the payroll at Hawks). If substantiated, this is beyond bad behaviour, this is calculated coercive manipulation and likely illegal.

If the North Melbourne board have either not done their due diligence in the appropriate background checks, or worse have done it and chased him anyway, then they should be held accountable on his appointment which should now be considered untenable.

I can't imagine how our indigenous men and women are feeling reading these reports. We have no place for racism in our proud club and have actively campaigned against it over many years - we need to again make a stand and an immediate review of Clarksons appointment is the number one priority.

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Baudolino]

What does NMFC do?

How long do they wait before deciding which way they go?

They can't sack Clarkson without him being given due process. However, I suspect he will be invited to temporarily step down from the club while the investigation takes place.

 

[Cataholic]

They can't sack Clarkson without him being given due process. However, I suspect he will be invited to temporarily step down from the club while the investigation takes place.

You'd think they will have to move quickly, because if it ultimately leads to Clarkson's sacking they'll have little time to appoint a replacement.

 

[patdman]

Man to be fair to News Corp one of their reporters wrote a book on the culture within AFL administration last year that (as Russell Jackson pointed out in the ABC) got absolutely memory-holed because Nine, which dominates footy media, wouldn't discuss it.

Can anyone recall the name of this book? I remember it being discussed on some non maintsream podcasts. Wouldn't mind tracking it down.

 

[cats_09]

The following doesn't specifically link to the article from today, but reading comments like this that have come from the club it's make you sick when you start putting the pieces together

 

[cats_09]

ABC journalists are not dumb. Would have been run through the lawyers a bunch of times before releasing of names. Makes me think there is a lot of truth to it. Noting that this was less than a decade ago, if Geelong had done something similar I would non longer support the club. Very hard to stomach

We also need to remember that this information has come out after the Club commissioned the external review - so this isn't exactly a couple of journalists looking for a story, but a club initiated process which has lead to this:

"Hawthorn commissioned a review to look into how First Nations players were treated during Alastair Clarkson's time at the Hawks"

It's going to be interesting to see how the AFL Integrity Unit will act - they also have received the full review