Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2023, part I

[patience]

Does AFL "journalism " have its own special April Fools day?

 

[And_ROOS]

I think the AFL needs to abolish the pre-finals bye. The teams getting a weeks rest should be an advantage to the teams who finish top 4 and win the first final.
King is right to an extent, but also missing the point. Pies are the worst example because they travel interstate the least and when they play Geelong/Saints/North Melbourne/Western Bulldogs in a final where they are the away team they get an unfair home ground advantage.

AFL worried about the sports integrity that a team in the top 8 might rest players leading into finals hence the pre-finals bye yet Carlton did it by resting players against GWS so they weren't risked at all. Meanwhile had GWS lost then you could argue that us putting players in for surgery put the competition integrity at risk as well.

 

[Shell]

Does anyone like this bye?

At least maybe have the Brownlow Count this weekend- interstate teams in finals could just Zoom it in.

 

[cats_09]

 

[Munich]

The twitter thread was fun to flick through...

Hahahaha.

Hahahahaha wtaf.

 

[rocker_oz33]

The thing is that there will be pies nuffies that will agree with that line of thinking

Think of the stupidest people you can think of and then realise there’s thousands more stupider than them

Their like a cult ...

 

[And_ROOS]

Does anyone like this bye?

At least maybe have the Brownlow Count this weekend- interstate teams in finals could just Zoom it in.

The pre-finals bye makes no sense to me. The AFL said "it lets all the teams have a rest and bring their best into finals" and then point to 2016 as the example because the Bulldogs won the flag from outside the top 4.
They also said it was due to Freo and North resting tons of players for their last game of the year.

But since then, the concussion protocol is going to lead to a massive controversy sooner rather than later with a player getting a concussion in a PF and missing out on a Grand Final.

And the pre-finals bye gives a reward to teams in the bottom half of the 8 that they haven't earned.

The simple fix is to put the pre-finals by to a pre-GF bye.
1. Then you can have all the awards nights that week, and all the teams bar the 2 GF teams can attend.
2. Then if you want to fill in the void that weekend, you have AFLW, you could bring the AFL Legends match back, etc.
3. You avoid the potential **** up of a player getting a slight concussion but then missing the GF due to a head knock. And before someone compares it to other injuries (its an argument I have seen before), if you do a calf or break a finger you can take the risk of playing and making it worse, the decision is upto the club and player. A concussion is the only injury where your minimum return time is dictated to you by the AFL and you have no recourse.
4. You are giving the 2 best teams in the competition a week to be ready for a GF after the PF, which over the last few years have been some of the most intense and physically demanding games of the season. Geelong were in great physical shape heading into the GF last year. Swans limped in. Maybe an extra week prevents the Swans being blown off the park by HT.

 

[BotsMaster]

This just has to be a pisstake, surely?

“It’s just wrong”: Why Collingwood should be handed a stronger finals advantage

“There has to be some advantage.”

www.sen.com.au

He has to have been diagnosed with retartation at some point in his life.

 

[Hamingja]

View attachment 1789360

Cheers West Coast for 46 goals between the 3 of them

 

[Alite]

"Non Geelong" in this thread actually means observation of teams that are not Geelong. Everyone is welcome though

Wow I mis-read that title. Cheers for the heads-up. I’ll say my last and scurry off.

This is technically of topic for this thread but in any case it's a fair effort putting together so thanks for having a dip.

My personal view is that we lose more as a team by trading away a strength for two teenage kids who may never make it.

I think you would get more turning over the midfield with the kids we have because I would rather give the kids we have a forward line to kick into that can make bad entries look better than they are.

This strategy of only turning over one area of the ground at a time is more or less what we've done for the last 8ish years. They do overlap a bit but the game style looks like it supports one then the other.

2017-2019: turned over the whole backline on field. This is where most of the Geelong "slow ball movement" game style really kicked off as we used our great midfield to slow up game play, prevent turnovers, and keep the heat off a very inexperienced backline. Our goals were either marked by Hawkins or menzel, or they were kicked by mids floating forward

2018-2021: Turned over the whole firward line. We had added a couple of experienced players for defensive f50 work (Rohan/Dahlhaus) as we were deadset the worst for holding the ball forward. Drafted a few mids that could play fwd (Fogarty/Parfitt/their original intention with TK). The early years we were still fairly defensive and slow but just started moving forward to fevers closer to goal. The strategy peaked in 2020 where we had a forward line set up almost as an extra midfield set up. Hawkins either marked or ruck tapped the entry to advantage. At ground level Gary Ablett was playing attacking mid and Atkins was playing defensive mid trading the entries like a stoppage.

2022: Unicorn year, no changes required. The backline had now played 100 games together and we didn't need to protect them with slow ball movement. With the small forward cohort now going and tracking elite, and two Coleman's in f50 we were able to just attack and defend in a balanced way and we were unstoppable.

2023-2025: Midfield turnover. Hard to predict the future here but I think we can expect our small small forwards to push right into the midfield to give outside options and turn what clearances we can get into scores and for that we need Cameron/Ollie Henry/ another year of Hawkins.

I think this gives guys like Jhye Clark and Tanner Bruhn opportunity to focus on just learning how to get the clearances without having to hone their i50 work. Defensive types like Atkins, Blitz, and Parfitt means that defensive lapses from them can sometimes get caught by others too. They get to learn one thing at a time. I think that's worth way more than a couple of extra teenagers

I see the sense in the 1-line-at-a-time renewal strategy. The game plan revolves around protecting the weaker areas by using the teams strengths. Love it. I had not noticed the nuance of Chris Scott’s game plan. I remember Gellong playing very differently to every other team in 2021 by slowing the pace. Now I see why.

As stated by CatToTheFuture I am off topic due to my mis-reading of the meaning of the heading and so will leave you to your analysis of oppo teams.

But I’ll leave this one last thought… my proposal only works this year as Cameron and Stewart have a few years left. Next year Geelong will have near no player with draft “value” that you cannot afford to lose (e.g. SDK has huge draft value but you cannot lose him).

When I read back on what I have written it seems like I am Melbourne‘s recruiting manager. But a quick look at my many posts will show that I am not. I just like trade possibilities and respect Geelong FC.

OK, time for me to scurry.

 

[TheCatStevensExperience]

Hey Guys, it is great that you have this thread.

The Cats have been gravity defying for the last 20 years playing in all but 2 final series before the start of this season. With 13 of your best players now 30+, and after the drop off in form from the group, it may be that the amazing run is over. My mate is a Cat’s supporter and thinks Mackie & Wells could still pull another rabbit-out-of-the-hat to rejuvenate the list. I’d less confidant.

IF the well-has-run-dry (as I think it has) then I’d love your opinion on the following. This will be jarring but the payoff could be transformative.

Melbourne needs another quality tall fwd like the desert needs the rain. Their time is now! and they should pay near anything for Jeremy Cameron (31 next year but still in the top 5 players in the comp).

GCS have a list chock-full of high draft picks that are ready to have a tilt at finals and should pay a high price for Tom Stewart (will be 31 in 2024 but is still in the top 30 players in the comp).

It is a given that players would have to agree to the following trades. The (X) represents likely actual trade position after Academy and FS bids.

1: Melbourne trade Grundy to Port to free up cap space and get a good pick back.
2: Geelong trade Jeremy Cameron to Melbourne for picks 5(6) and Pick ~15(20)
3: Geelong trade Tom Stewart to GCS for pick 4(5)

Some jockeying with future picks will likely happen along with cap space money. But I can see every team winning in the above trades.

Geelong then select

Pick 4(5): Best available = Duursma, Watson, Curtin, McKercher
Pick 5(6): Best available = Duursma, Watson, Curtin, McKercher
Pick 8(10): Connor O’Sullivan (a CHB to replace Stewart) and SDK partner for the next 10+ years.
Pick 15(20): Archer Reid (a CHF to replace Cameron) … potential personified but will take time.

In one trade period the Cats would have rejuvenated their list for a shot at the finals by 2026. It would be the fastest rebuild since the equalisation measures were put in place.

2024 and 2025 would yield further high draft picks to add to the rebuild.

From a Cat‘s fan point of view you would avoid the slow decline years (which are the worst) and jump straight to the exciting rebuild years where a loss is not important, instead the development is the reason to watch.

Clearly I highly respect the Cats and would love to see them rise at a similar time to the Hawks. Our club’s rivalry in terms of challenging for the premiership over the last 40 years is second to none. Let the Crows and Power, Eagles and Dockers, Pies and Blues have their grudge matches to see who is better, while the Cats and Hawks see who will win the premiership.

Don't feel the need to scurry off so soon - polite, reasonable discussion is certainly allowed.

I think the above would require enormous bravery, but I think it commits the cardinal sin of removing the experienced leaders in favour of youth.

This is particularly true of Stewart who marshalls the entire defence.

If he goes, who replaces him in that role? Jed Bews? A fine footballer, but no leader of men.

Jake Kolosjashnij? Nope.

Zach Guthrie? In time perhaps, but not now.

SDK? Nope too young, too inconsistent (at the moment).

Jack Henry? Doesn't quite have the killer instinct Stewart and Scarlett had.

You would end up in a Gold Coast situation where you have endless talent and potential but nobody there to shepherd it, mould it and make it functional.

 

[Alite]

Don't feel the need to scurry off so soon - polite, reasonable discussion is certainly allowed.

I think the above would require enormous bravery, but I think it commits the cardinal sin of removing the experienced leaders in favour of youth.

This is particularly true of Stewart who marshalls the entire defence.

If he goes, who replaces him in that role? Jed Bews? A fine footballer, but no leader of men.

Jake Kolosjashnij? Nope.

Zach Guthrie? In time perhaps, but not now.

SDK? Nope too young, too inconsistent (at the moment).

Jack Henry? Doesn't quite have the killer instinct Stewart and Scarlett had.

You would end up in a Gold Coast situation where you have endless talent and potential but nobody there to shepherd it, mould it and make it functional.

Thank you for the call back. I find this discussion to be highly interesting great fun. IMO, Geelong have the most intriguing play in the comp ahead of them. They will either re-load (as I see most want) or change the AFL world.


To answer your question: If Stewart leaves Blitz must be a candidate for the backline general.

And in time other leaders will come. My preferred recruit for your backline in O’Sullivan who is a captain in the making.

Aside: I find it interesting that losing Stewart was your focus and not Cameron.

If Geelong traded Cameron at his age for picks 5(6) and ~16(20) would you take it?

IMO it is 100% achievable*. I’ll happily go ask Melbourne supporters.


* = assuming Cameron agrees to the trade … where he will play with the best backline, the best midfield and an excellent fwd line if he was in it. That would be a great team. How could he say no. And if the Cats are not challenging, why would they not take the draft picks. Everyone wins.

 

[Strange Cat]

Thank you for the call back. I find this discussion to be highly interesting great fun. IMO, Geelong have the most intriguing play in the comp ahead of them. They will either re-load (as I see most want) or change the AFL world.


To answer your question: If Stewart leaves Blitz must be a candidate for the backline general.

And in time other leaders will come. My preferred recruit for your backline in O’Sullivan who is a captain in the making.

Aside: I find it interesting that losing Stewart was your focus and not Cameron.

If Geelong traded Cameron at his age for picks 5(6) and ~16(20) would you take it?

IMO it is 100% achievable*. I’ll happily go ask Melbourne supporters.


* = assuming Cameron agrees to the trade … where he will play with the best backline, the best midfield and an excellent fwd line if he was in it. That would be a great team. How could he say no. And if the Cats are not challenging, why would they not take the draft picks. Everyone wins.

JC is well established and settled in the region with a young family and would never agree to this hypothetical trade , it is not a win/win situation we would be giving up one of the best forward in the game for very little in return (draft picks ) as it is likely we will bounce back next year and in the future .

Good clubs don’t do that and it’s the same line of thinking of one every stupid former poster suggesting the same sort of trade for Hawkins for Walters all those years ago based on a year of injuries from Hawkins … you don’t write off a team or players on the back of one bad year out of 10+ years of data.

Players are not commodities you would hurt the culture by trading out the leaders of the club based off the results from one bad year following from a flag….it’s not like we finished bottom four for multiple years and need to change things up.

 

[Alite]

JC is well established and settled in the region with a young family and would never agree to this hypothetical trade , it is not a win/win situation we would be giving up one of the best forward in the game for very little in return (draft picks ) as it is likely we will bounce back next year and in the future .

Good clubs don’t do that and it’s the same line of thinking of one every stupid former poster suggesting the same sort of trade for Hawkins for Walters all those years ago based on a year of injuries from Hawkins … you don’t write off a team or players on the back of one bad year out of 10+ years of data.

Players are not commodities you would hurt the culture by trading out the leaders of the club based off the results from one bad year following from a flag….it’s not like we finished bottom four for multiple years and need to change things up.

Strange,
Unless you are Jeramy Cameron, you do not get to speak for him. What he would or would not agree to is not yours to state.
I hear your passion and that you want to keep him at the Cats. All good and I understand. Note: every vocal Cats fan in this chat agrees with you.

Again you state he would “never accept this hypothetical trade”. You are projecting your thoughts onto JC. Try saying I trust or am certain JC will stay. The distinction is important.

One year full of injuries…. Now that is a topic that the Eagles BigFooty community might be able to help with. Reason 1: They have older players. Do you see the similarities with Geelong? Injuries are not an excuse, it is what happens

It is an inevitable result and a certainty of age in a combative sport that players play less time due to injury.

Players are people and not commodities … I 100% agree .

Look Back Strange Cat .. at our conversations and see who treated the players as commodities and who treated them like people.

 

[Strange Cat]

Strange,
Unless you are Jeramy Cameron, you do not get to speak for him. What he would or would not agree to is not yours to state.
I hear your passion and that you want to keep him at the Cats. All good and I understand. Note: every vocal Cats fan in this chat agrees with you.

Again you state he would “never accept this hypothetical trade”. You are projecting your thoughts onto JC. Try saying I trust or am certain JC will stay. The distinction is important.

One year full of injuries…. Now that is a topic that the Eagles BigFooty community might be able to help with. Reason 1: They have older players. Do you see the similarities with Geelong? Injuries are not an excuse, it is what happens

It is an inevitable result and a certainty of age in a combative sport that players play less time due to injury.

Players are people and not commodities … I 100% agree .

Look Back Strange Cat .. at our conversations and see who treated the players as commodities and who treated them like people.

So in a round about way you’re trolling by saying the cats are shit and should trade out all their leaders because we are the same as the eagles based off the results from one bad year after winning a flag despite 10+ years of sustained success

Oh and JC will agree because Melb list is better is what you’re trying to say as we are pass it and old and injury prone …again based off the results from one bad year after winning the flag…never mind that he’s settled in the region with his family after REQUESTING a trade back HOME

 

[PzBlinky]

Strange,
Unless you are Jeramy Cameron, you do not get to speak for him. What he would or would not agree to is not yours to state.
I hear your passion and that you want to keep him at the Cats. All good and I understand. Note: every vocal Cats fan in this chat agrees with you.

Again you state he would “never accept this hypothetical trade”. You are projecting your thoughts onto JC. Try saying I trust or am certain JC will stay. The distinction is important.

One year full of injuries…. Now that is a topic that the Eagles BigFooty community might be able to help with. Reason 1: They have older players. Do you see the similarities with Geelong? Injuries are not an excuse, it is what happens

It is an inevitable result and a certainty of age in a combative sport that players play less time due to injury.

Players are people and not commodities … I 100% agree .

Look Back Strange Cat .. at our conversations and see who treated the players as commodities and who treated them like people.

I'll chime in on the injuries.

Yeah, we had a shocking year but that doesn't mean it's age catching up with us.

We lost both Stengle and Stanley in the same game against the Eagles - but one broke an arm and the other a skull fracture. Very unlucky, but neither soft tissue.

SDK was whacked pillar to post in the first few rounds, which might go some way to explaining his lack of confidence over the rest of the season, but again, not an age issue.

Cameron definitely had hamstring issues in 2021, but they haven't been a problem since. He did spend most of the second half carrying something (I suspect beyond the Rohan incident, though there's been no definitive proof).

Jack Henry came back from a foot injury... only to have the other one hurt 4-5 weeks later. Whether it's bad luck or bad genetics is irrelevant, but again, not an age issue.

Cam Guthrie may be an age-related problem, but how many older players end up with a season-ending TOE injury?

Of the obvious age-related ones, you could point to Hawkins, Blicavs, and Danger... though Paddy was out for 3-4 weeks with the hammy, came back against Port, and got a punctured lung and broken rib. He struggled through the rest of the season but barring flashes, wasn't the same. Oh, maybe Tuohy - there were rumours he was playing under duress for a good chunk of the season, but don't think anything was confirmed.

These aren't the only ones, but they're a fair sample. It's reasonable to say we had a nasty year, but to say it's because we have a lot of aging players isn't close to the full (or even right) story.

 

[Shadow89]

Strange,
Unless you are Jeramy Cameron, you do not get to speak for him. What he would or would not agree to is not yours to state.
I hear your passion and that you want to keep him at the Cats. All good and I understand. Note: every vocal Cats fan in this chat agrees with you.

Again you state he would “never accept this hypothetical trade”. You are projecting your thoughts onto JC. Try saying I trust or am certain JC will stay. The distinction is important.

One year full of injuries…. Now that is a topic that the Eagles BigFooty community might be able to help with. Reason 1: They have older players. Do you see the similarities with Geelong? Injuries are not an excuse, it is what happens

It is an inevitable result and a certainty of age in a combative sport that players play less time due to injury.

Players are people and not commodities … I 100% agree .

Look Back Strange Cat .. at our conversations and see who treated the players as commodities and who treated them like people.

You've been respectful until this post, but now unfortunately you've derailed things a bit by getting into a back and forth, and it's escalating.

Suggest it's probably time you take your leave now, as we've been pretty accommodating up until this point.

 

[Shadow89]

I'll chime in on the injuries.

Yeah, we had a shocking year but that doesn't mean it's age catching up with us.

We lost both Stengle and Stanley in the same game against the Eagles - but one broke an arm and the other a skull fracture. Very unlucky, but neither soft tissue.

SDK was whacked pillar to post in the first few rounds, which might go some way to explaining his lack of confidence over the rest of the season, but again, not an age issue.

Cameron definitely had hamstring issues in 2021, but they haven't been a problem since. He did spend most of the second half carrying something (I suspect beyond the Rohan incident, though there's been no definitive proof).

Jack Henry came back from a foot injury... only to have the other one hurt 4-5 weeks later. Whether it's bad luck or bad genetics is irrelevant, but again, not an age issue.

Cam Guthrie may be an age-related problem, but how many older players end up with a season-ending TOE injury?

Of the obvious age-related ones, you could point to Hawkins, Blicavs, and Danger... though Paddy was out for 3-4 weeks with the hammy, came back against Port, and got a punctured lung and broken rib. He struggled through the rest of the season but barring flashes, wasn't the same. Oh, maybe Tuohy - there were rumours he was playing under duress for a good chunk of the season, but don't think anything was confirmed.

These aren't the only ones, but they're a fair sample. It's reasonable to say we had a nasty year, but to say it's because we have a lot of aging players isn't close to the full (or even right) story.

I think the large thing missed in the overall analysis of our injuries this year, is that it was not limited to just our older players.

I did this analysis a couple of weeks ago, but essentially, we used 38/44 players over the season - and injury was across all areas of the ground, across all age ranges.

This speaks to an issue with conditioning and preparation, rather than an age related one.

While there are those like Rohan and Stanley who are always going to be injury prone, and guys like Danger, Duncan and Tuohy who are close to the end, there are also guys like SDK, Stengle, Holmes, Close etc. who all just could not get a run at it.

We all could see there was something wrong as early as pre-season, as injuries were piling up and we just did not look to be covering the ground at all well in the practice game and then the early season games. This trend got worse throughout the season, and then with injuries on top of it, we never stood a chance.

I don't think we'll go back to Top 4, but I also don't think the decline will be WC or Hawthorn like either. We've changed tact from 2016, and half our Best 23 is 26 or under now.

It's pretty shallow analysis to say we need to trade Jez and Stew out to commit to a 'full rebuild', when both of those two could play to 35 if they have better conditioning and really do the work each pre-season like Sel, Hodge, Pendles etc. all did/do.

I'd understand if it was our old guys not covering the ground during the games, and our younger players doing all the work, but tbh most of the season it was the reverse and reminiscent of 2015 when Sel had to do it alone with Enright, Hawkins and Bartel as support. Again, that suggests a problem across the board, not an age related decline.

 

[Strange Cat]

We may be pass it and require a different approach than the one used over the last 15 years …but basing that from a bad year is stupid …if we have multiple years in the bottom 4 with no light at the end of the tunnel then you could possibly say that but we won the flag last year and we have a core of really good kids that sets up the future well

It’s just trolling to state that JC would love to play in a team with “the best midfiled , backline and forward line”.

 

[dazbroncos]

Strange,
Unless you are Jeramy Cameron, you do not get to speak for him. What he would or would not agree to is not yours to state.
I hear your passion and that you want to keep him at the Cats. All good and I understand. Note: every vocal Cats fan in this chat agrees with you.

Again you state he would “never accept this hypothetical trade”. You are projecting your thoughts onto JC. Try saying I trust or am certain JC will stay. The distinction is important.

One year full of injuries…. Now that is a topic that the Eagles BigFooty community might be able to help with. Reason 1: They have older players. Do you see the similarities with Geelong? Injuries are not an excuse, it is what happens

It is an inevitable result and a certainty of age in a combative sport that players play less time due to injury.

Players are people and not commodities … I 100% agree .

Look Back Strange Cat .. at our conversations and see who treated the players as commodities and who treated them like people.

You were doing so well too a shame you went a bridge too far.

Time to jog on now.

Talking projection of self onto others - give it a spell.

You proposed a highly unlikely yet hypothetical trade sitation and created some interesting hypothetical discussion and then you decided to die on that hill rather than accept some push back ( and you were gonna get push back saying trade Cameron and Stewart ffs lets be honest 0 and then time stamping it with "do it now or die" as your list has nothing else of value

So thanks for the input and off you go.

Dont push it.

GO Catters

 

[Partridge]

I think the large thing missed in the overall analysis of our injuries this year, is that it was not limited to just our older players.

I did this analysis a couple of weeks ago, but essentially, we used 38/44 players over the season - and injury was across all areas of the ground, across all age ranges.

This speaks to an issue with conditioning and preparation, rather than an age related one.

While there are those like Rohan and Stanley who are always going to be injury prone, and guys like Danger, Duncan and Tuohy who are close to the end, there are also guys like SDK, Stengle, Holmes, Close etc. who all just could not get a run at it.

Not sure about that. Just a quick look tells you they didn't miss nearly as much footy as legend is starting to rapidly claim.

Close and Holmes - 21 games each (they only missed 2)
Stengle and DeKoning - 19 games each (amazingly, they only missed 4 each)

What was undeniably true however is that none of them managed to recapture last year's form. I think that was a very big factor in the decline.

 

[Strange Cat]

Not sure about that. Just a quick look tells you they didn't miss nearly as much footy as legend is starting to rapidly claim.

Close and Holmes - 21 games each (they only missed 2)
Stengle and DeKoning - 19 games each (amazingly, they only missed 4 each)

What was undeniably true however is that none of them managed to recapture last year's form. I think that was a very big factor in the decline.

Structure around them has collapses for periods at a time over the year and the lack of fitness only exacerbates that imo you can’t play your best if the support around them is not there and the fitness of the team as a whole is questionable

And yet the team could had still snuck into the 8 it’s not as if we have finished bottom 4 and can’t turn it around

 

[TheCatStevensExperience]

Thank you for the call back. I find this discussion to be highly interesting great fun. IMO, Geelong have the most intriguing play in the comp ahead of them. They will either re-load (as I see most want) or change the AFL world.


To answer your question: If Stewart leaves Blitz must be a candidate for the backline general.

And in time other leaders will come. My preferred recruit for your backline in O’Sullivan who is a captain in the making.

Aside: I find it interesting that losing Stewart was your focus and not Cameron.

If Geelong traded Cameron at his age for picks 5(6) and ~16(20) would you take it?

IMO it is 100% achievable*. I’ll happily go ask Melbourne supporters.


* = assuming Cameron agrees to the trade … where he will play with the best backline, the best midfield and an excellent fwd line if he was in it. That would be a great team. How could he say no. And if the Cats are not challenging, why would they not take the draft picks. Everyone wins.

Stewart was the most "pressing" of the two, I suppose.

Blicavs to the defence is interesting but losing him from the midfield makes it a no go.

If needed, you can move him from the midfield to somewhere else for structural or strategic reasons, and it's easy enough to replace him with someone who's "good enough". There are plenty of players who can go through the middle. Not so in defence.


As for the Cameron trade - we would get (significantly?) less than we paid for him only a few seasons ago for effectively a lottery ticket.

The players we get at 6 and 18~ are not likely to be better than Cameron is (in the time he has left with us) over the course of their careers in the position he plays and certain won't offer a better return in the next two or three years. There's no way we'd get a high roaming key forward at Pick 6~ anyway.

What Strange Cat says is right, too. What Geelong proves is that it's not just talent that gets you there, it's culture.

Geelong, of the last decade and a half are never not challenging. Save for a few close losses (5~) of less than 2 goals they'd have been a chance for top 4. In a fairly weak/even competition who's to say what happens from there?

They weren't "supposed" to win last year (or 2011). They could have won in 2020 save for some extraordinary efforts from a Richmond player or two. Could have snagged a few flags in other years too.

None of those possibilities occur if we trade out experience for youth.

 

[TheCatStevensExperience]

Not sure about that. Just a quick look tells you they didn't miss nearly as much footy as legend is starting to rapidly claim.

Close and Holmes - 21 games each (they only missed 2)
Stengle and DeKoning - 19 games each (amazingly, they only missed 4 each)

What was undeniably true however is that none of them managed to recapture last year's form. I think that was a very big factor in the decline.

Hard to capture form when the support they had last year was on the sidelines or otherwise missing. The difficulty level ramped up.

 

[Mr Meow]

Structure around them has collapses for periods at a time over the year and the lack of fitness only exacerbates that imo you can’t play your best if the support around them is not there and the fitness of the team as a whole is questionable

And yet the team could had still snuck into the 8 it’s not as if we have finished bottom 4 and can’t turn it around

The issue was more around:

1. In-game injuries/knocks (usually very early) meaning we had no gas in the tank late for a handful of games. And usually to important rather than fringe players.

2. Having too many players missing from one specific line (defence, midfield, forward) in any one game. And for a month, a combination of every line.

E.g in round 1 we lose Stewart at the start of the match so now we are down Stewart, Kolo and J.Henry in defence. Duncan absent from wing/half back. Same situation the next week vs Carlton.

By round 4 we have three of them back and go on a 5-0 run but by the end of that we've lost SDK, Stanley, Rohan, Dangerfield, Guthrie and Stengle. The issues have shifted onto midfield and forward. A couple come back but are offset by Duncan and Holmes getting injured. 6-9 best 22 are missing for a horrible month.

From round 14 we start getting close to a full team together but the season is hanging on by a thread and there are a lot of jaded looking players in the team. Our form is up and down but we are hanging in there. Then the Hawkins and Blicavs injuries in the Freo game (which we lose) that followed the Cameron disaster in the Melbourne game were the final death blows.

The Collingwood match was one last shot to fire but even in that and the St Kilda follow up we incurred early injuries.

A cursed season start to finish.