- Sep 3, 2011
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Sorry; got the name wrong ha! Either way he’s Lionel Hutz to me
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2023, part I
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No matter how much I looked I couldn't find the clip. Only Tambling hitting someone was in any of the clips I found.
I’ve read the updates and can’t believe how badly the AFL made its case - intentionally so? Fair chance Maynard gets off based on the arguments put before the Tribunal. Should he get off, no way. You jump head on into an oncoming player and hit them in the head. Forget all this talk of milliseconds… but that’s where the debate seems to have gone.
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- May 8, 2015
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The worst part of this whole thing is having to see Maynard's punchable face all the time
Both sides have come out with some terrible arguments.
- Jun 17, 2010
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Cleared.
Seriously is this still going?
shakes head
shakes head
Cleared is an absolute joke.
So cannon in hard on attempted smothers and if you get the ball, great, and brace late and if you clean up the man you give away a free kick at worse.
catempire
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- Feb 12, 2017
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A huge win for the media sycophants.
A ‘c’ word comes to mind.
That blokes face is infuriating and I really want to punch it.
This is a joke surely?
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
Exactly, but the head is sacrosanct, as it should be, and is very susceptible to being kneed and clobbered.
10 years ago, what Maynard did would not have been reported.
Intent?
malice?
deliberate?
No.
Today, the game must protect the head even from accidental trauma.
There were idiots who seriously said, by the current interpretation of the laws, Rohan should have been cited and suspended for hitting Cameron's head. His own team mate, for NOT PROTECTING the head
It is far-fetched, but marking and head contact WILL be eventually scrutinised.
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- Feb 28, 2011
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Would have been 5 weeks for anyone in a Geelong jumper!!!
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
Cleared?
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
- Sep 11, 2006
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To be honest I’d prefer him to get off then hear Pies supporters complain about how hard done by they are.
Becoming more insufferable by the day
Becoming more insufferable by the day
cats_09
Otters United
- Jun 21, 2011
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Long post-
These are Jeff Gleeson's instructions before deliberating, which are worth sharing:
My fingers have fallen off. Please see the below reasons of the Tribunal for its Maynard decision via Jeff Gleeson:
In the first quarter of Thursday's Qualifying Final from a centre bounce Brayshaw gathered the ball beyond the edge of the centre circle.
He ran in a direct line to the Melbourne goals at speed shaping to kick the ball long.
Maynard, who had set up at the centre bounce on the 50 meter line directly in line between the centre circle and the Melbourne goals and seeing Brayshaw running with the ball ran towards him.
He covered the distance of numerous meters at speed.
As Brayshaw shaped the kick and jumped high with both arms outstretched. He was attempting to smother the ball and in fact made contact with the ball.
By the time the ball made contact with Brayshaw’s boot, both of Maynard's feet had already left the ground.
At approximately the highest point of Maynard's elevation, he starts to pull his arms down and prepare for descent.
It’s obvious from the vision, and we find that at that moment it would have been obvious to Maynard, that he was going to collide with Brayshaw.
He turns his body to the right, tucks his right arm in, splays his legs and shapes his left hand in something of a fending motion.
He collides with Brayshaw with considerable impact.
After kicking the ball with his right foot, Brayshaw lands on that right foot. He lands or moves in such a way that his body moves to the right or directly into the path of Maynard.
Maynard’s arm or shoulder make forceful contact with Brayshaw’s head and he's knocked out cold. He suffers a concussion and is stretched from the field.
Maynard is charged with rough conduct, classified as careless conduct, high contact and severe impact.
The charge is advanced in two ways: Under the general rough conduct provision or alternatively under the rough conduct (high bumps) provision, we will address them in turn.
First, the rough conduct general provision.
The charge was pressed in two ways by the AFL. First, it says Maynard’s decision to attempt to smother in the way that he did was unreasonable and breached his duty of care.
Secondly, it says that, having entered the action of attempting to smother, he breached his duty of care by failing to cushion the impact with Brayshaw by either using outstretched hands and arms or by leaving his arms open and collecting Brayshaw with his shoulder.
As to the decision to smother basis, we find that Maynard's decision was reasonable.
He committed to the act of smothering when he was what appears to us from the vision to be several meters from Brayshaw.
We accept a reasonable player would have foreseen at the moment of committing to the act of smothering that some impact with Brayshaw was possible. We find that it was not inevitable from the perspective of a player in Maynard’s position.
We are not at all satisfied that a reasonable player would have foreseen that violent impact or impact of the type suffered by Brayshaw was inevitable or even likely.
There were at the moment Maynard committed to the act of smothering many variables that could have eventuated in many different ways.
Brayshaw could’ve executed his kick in a different direction or in a different manner, landed in a different manner or in a slightly different location.
We are here discussing the first way in which the general rough conduct charge is pressed; That is, focusing on the decision to commit to the act of smothering.
The still images showing the ‘lanes’ in which the players were located at various relevant times, provide support for Maynard's evidence that he did not expect Brayshaw to be where he ultimately saw him to be after he took his eyes off the ball and look down to see Brayshaw.
As to the second basis of the rough conduct general provision, we accept the evidence of Professor Cole that he did not believe that Maynard’s body position at the time of impact can be considered part of any conscious decision.
Here, we’re addressing the second way in which general rough conduct charge is pressed, namely that it was something that Maynard did or didn't do after he'd decided to smother was careless.
We find that Professor Cole's evidence is consistent with the time intervals that were introduced into evidence and consistent with our repeated viewing of the video evidence from numerous angles at normal speed.
Alternative methods of landing as advanced by the AFL may or may not have produced a better outcome for Brayshaw, if Maynard had the time to make a conscious choice as to his body position, we find that he had no such sufficient time.
He would have had to weigh up what his other options were and whether they were more or less likely to cause harm to Brayshaw.
It is not an irrelevant consideration that these other possible methods of landing foreseeably have resulted in harm to Maynard.
The AFL’s position was to accept and we think it was appropriate to do so that even these other methods of landing will have resulted in a reportable offence.
It is asking a lot of a player to decide in a fraction of a second which various ways to land, a high speed collision, and which of those ways of landing might result in which type of reportable offence.
We find that Mr. Maynard was not careless in either his decision to smother or the way in which his body formed.
This brings us to the rough conduct (high bumps) provision.
The first question here is whether Maynard caused forceful contact to Brayshaw’s head or neck in the bumping of an opponent.
The AFL contends that Maynard chose to bump. Ihle on behalf of Maynard says the evidence demonstrates he had no time to make such a decision and that Maynard did no more than brace for contact.
We are clearly satisfied Maynard did not engage in the act of bumping Brayshaw.
It is not suggested by the AFL and nor could it be sensibly suggested that Maynard made a decision to bump his opponent at the moment of jumping in the air to smother.
At that point in time, Maynard was clearly making a decision to smother.
In order for it to be concluded that he engaged in the act of bumping. It would be necessary to find that he formed that intention when in midair at approximately at the apex of his leap.
We accept the evidence of Professor Cole as being consistent with a common sense viewing of the video evidence. Maynard had no time to form that intention.
The charge is dismissed.
These are Jeff Gleeson's instructions before deliberating, which are worth sharing:
My fingers have fallen off. Please see the below reasons of the Tribunal for its Maynard decision via Jeff Gleeson:
In the first quarter of Thursday's Qualifying Final from a centre bounce Brayshaw gathered the ball beyond the edge of the centre circle.
He ran in a direct line to the Melbourne goals at speed shaping to kick the ball long.
Maynard, who had set up at the centre bounce on the 50 meter line directly in line between the centre circle and the Melbourne goals and seeing Brayshaw running with the ball ran towards him.
He covered the distance of numerous meters at speed.
As Brayshaw shaped the kick and jumped high with both arms outstretched. He was attempting to smother the ball and in fact made contact with the ball.
By the time the ball made contact with Brayshaw’s boot, both of Maynard's feet had already left the ground.
At approximately the highest point of Maynard's elevation, he starts to pull his arms down and prepare for descent.
It’s obvious from the vision, and we find that at that moment it would have been obvious to Maynard, that he was going to collide with Brayshaw.
He turns his body to the right, tucks his right arm in, splays his legs and shapes his left hand in something of a fending motion.
He collides with Brayshaw with considerable impact.
After kicking the ball with his right foot, Brayshaw lands on that right foot. He lands or moves in such a way that his body moves to the right or directly into the path of Maynard.
Maynard’s arm or shoulder make forceful contact with Brayshaw’s head and he's knocked out cold. He suffers a concussion and is stretched from the field.
Maynard is charged with rough conduct, classified as careless conduct, high contact and severe impact.
The charge is advanced in two ways: Under the general rough conduct provision or alternatively under the rough conduct (high bumps) provision, we will address them in turn.
First, the rough conduct general provision.
The charge was pressed in two ways by the AFL. First, it says Maynard’s decision to attempt to smother in the way that he did was unreasonable and breached his duty of care.
Secondly, it says that, having entered the action of attempting to smother, he breached his duty of care by failing to cushion the impact with Brayshaw by either using outstretched hands and arms or by leaving his arms open and collecting Brayshaw with his shoulder.
As to the decision to smother basis, we find that Maynard's decision was reasonable.
He committed to the act of smothering when he was what appears to us from the vision to be several meters from Brayshaw.
We accept a reasonable player would have foreseen at the moment of committing to the act of smothering that some impact with Brayshaw was possible. We find that it was not inevitable from the perspective of a player in Maynard’s position.
We are not at all satisfied that a reasonable player would have foreseen that violent impact or impact of the type suffered by Brayshaw was inevitable or even likely.
There were at the moment Maynard committed to the act of smothering many variables that could have eventuated in many different ways.
Brayshaw could’ve executed his kick in a different direction or in a different manner, landed in a different manner or in a slightly different location.
We are here discussing the first way in which the general rough conduct charge is pressed; That is, focusing on the decision to commit to the act of smothering.
The still images showing the ‘lanes’ in which the players were located at various relevant times, provide support for Maynard's evidence that he did not expect Brayshaw to be where he ultimately saw him to be after he took his eyes off the ball and look down to see Brayshaw.
As to the second basis of the rough conduct general provision, we accept the evidence of Professor Cole that he did not believe that Maynard’s body position at the time of impact can be considered part of any conscious decision.
Here, we’re addressing the second way in which general rough conduct charge is pressed, namely that it was something that Maynard did or didn't do after he'd decided to smother was careless.
We find that Professor Cole's evidence is consistent with the time intervals that were introduced into evidence and consistent with our repeated viewing of the video evidence from numerous angles at normal speed.
Alternative methods of landing as advanced by the AFL may or may not have produced a better outcome for Brayshaw, if Maynard had the time to make a conscious choice as to his body position, we find that he had no such sufficient time.
He would have had to weigh up what his other options were and whether they were more or less likely to cause harm to Brayshaw.
It is not an irrelevant consideration that these other possible methods of landing foreseeably have resulted in harm to Maynard.
The AFL’s position was to accept and we think it was appropriate to do so that even these other methods of landing will have resulted in a reportable offence.
It is asking a lot of a player to decide in a fraction of a second which various ways to land, a high speed collision, and which of those ways of landing might result in which type of reportable offence.
We find that Mr. Maynard was not careless in either his decision to smother or the way in which his body formed.
This brings us to the rough conduct (high bumps) provision.
The first question here is whether Maynard caused forceful contact to Brayshaw’s head or neck in the bumping of an opponent.
The AFL contends that Maynard chose to bump. Ihle on behalf of Maynard says the evidence demonstrates he had no time to make such a decision and that Maynard did no more than brace for contact.
We are clearly satisfied Maynard did not engage in the act of bumping Brayshaw.
It is not suggested by the AFL and nor could it be sensibly suggested that Maynard made a decision to bump his opponent at the moment of jumping in the air to smother.
At that point in time, Maynard was clearly making a decision to smother.
In order for it to be concluded that he engaged in the act of bumping. It would be necessary to find that he formed that intention when in midair at approximately at the apex of his leap.
We accept the evidence of Professor Cole as being consistent with a common sense viewing of the video evidence. Maynard had no time to form that intention.
The charge is dismissed.
If this was Rd 3, it would have been 3 weeks and no one would have cared.
Oh, its a final? Then I guess we don't care gotta have the best players playing after all.
Oh, its a final? Then I guess we don't care gotta have the best players playing after all.
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