Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs Fremantle

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enjoyable game with intensity and committed tackling at least we made them earn the win ..

Nicnat didn`t enjoy it out there that was one of his worst games ever

The backwards handball needs to be done and then shepperd or block for the recipient ,too many times the player was charged down and resulted in a quick dodgy kick ..

Another thing was the failure to lock the ball in the contest too many times the ball was fed out to the lurking seagulls on the outside unattended ..
 
MeltMan said:
Full 9 votes, no one even questioned it. 50 some hitouts slogging in the wet got it done.
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I rest my case. Thanks HoneyBadger35
7c011523-eecd-442e-b6c4-84e19b04a61b-png.1476152
 

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The wily weagle said:
Regarding Nic, remember this:

Our club spruiked, hell, they all nigh gloated, that Nic Nat had a full an uninterrupted pre season this year

Yet he looks heavier then ever, and he can hardly jump

Coming off 2 knee reconstructions, at the back end of career, whilst simultaneously being fatter then ever will do that to a man

But rather then ask him the hard questions and take him to task, everyone dances around the obvious and pretends Nic is in shape

Natanui is a legend, no doubt. But at this point in career the club needs to stop p*ssing in his pocket and hammer him on the bleeding obvious: at present, he is too heavy

Get him lighter, get him fitter, and he may just extend his career

But keep going as we are going and pretending that he is fit and everything is all good when it clearly isn't, and nobody wins
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At some point between now and the 32 year old multi knee recon ruckman retiring, you’re going to give up the dream of him becoming an 80% TOG ruck for the first time since 2015. Coincidentally pre the first of two knee recons.

I understand you think Nic (and Ryan and Rioli 🤔) are too big, but Nic’s role is not changing. Not because the club have no spine, or because he’s lazy, but because he’s been an absolute unit since he was 18 and is two knee recons deep whilst over the age of 30.

He plays high 60s to low 70s% TOG. He makes All Australian and wins Best and Fairests this way. That’s who he is. You can get upset about it every week but you’re only wasting your own time.
 
+ve

First half pressure
Barrass
XON

-ve

Naitanui. No leap, no pace, no endurance...
Ryan. Should've stayed in NT, mentally checked out.
Gaff. Feel like I hate on him on a weekly basis. 22 touches for 162m gained. Zac Langdon was 157 from 11 touches playing forward. A shadow of what he was.
 
Overall a good effort by the team, a lot of grit and effort to the end.
Can't really criticise them too much, wasn't it a 6 day turnaround, good players out,
some average players in, a slog fest..
Having said that, Ryan needs to get his head straight, or ego?
Our defence was great and looks solid for the future.
The forwards and mids will be addressed over the off-season, the pieces to the puzzle
are all there, plus top-ups in the draft, just need to be honed off-season.
Remember we don't get flogged by 30, 40, 50, 60+ anymore, so we have turned a corner.... but could use a new gun ruckman, for when the champ retires.
One last gasp next week and we get into the best thing that's happened all season,
the offseason shake-up and rebuild!
Congrats to Mundy, a likeable player!
Lol at ending up 5th, but as we all know it matters not in the end, because the classic choke is awaiting in the finals!
 
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eaglespremiers said:
I rest my case. Thanks HoneyBadger35
7c011523-eecd-442e-b6c4-84e19b04a61b-png.1476152
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These are never concrete proof of anything, and aren’t always right. For example, this data seems to suggest Michael Walters played?

But yeah, mystified by the narrative out of this one. Feel like if the game was watched on mute without Derm’s one talking point per game 1000 times per game approach, the takeaway would have been so different.
 
HoneyBadger35 said:
At some point between now and the 32 year old multi knee recon ruckman retiring, you’re going to give up the dream of him becoming an 80% TOG ruck for the first time since 2015. Coincidentally pre the first of two knee recons.

I understand you think Nic (and Ryan and Rioli 🤔) are too big, but Nic’s role is not changing. Not because the club have no spine, or because he’s lazy, but because he’s been an absolute unit since he was 18 and is two knee recons deep whilst over the age of 30.

He plays high 60s to low 70s% TOG. He makes All Australian and wins Best and Fairests this way. That’s who he is. You can get upset about it every week but you’re only wasting your own time.
Click to expand...

So you are saying, that Nic is as fit as he can be and wouldn't at all benefit from being lighter?

You are certainly the perennial eagles apologist. I am hardly saying Nic has had a bad career, but all and sundry can clearly see the man is too heavy and could be fitter

Take into account the knee is a weight bearing joint, and having a man come off dual knee reconstructions, and him being as heavy as he is in madness. What I am saying might very well extend the man's career. That's not conjecture, that fact

Please, utilise some common sense and stop being a slavish sycophant.
 
+s The whole backline especially Tom B
O'Neill great game.

- Ryan is out of form definitely but maybe also a downhill skier.


Gaff Simmo said he was injured, I'm not sure shouldn't be playing at the moment.

More positives the tackling the effort, wasn't a game The Eagles were ever going to win and the rain helped them to not be totally overrun but the effort was there.
 

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Westend said:
The wheel is turning :rolleyes:

I find that very hard to see Badge

Geelong next week ...pencil that in as another loss

We just do not make up field position...and the ball is consistently in our back half..our defence is great midfield is average bordering poor

Our forwards are okay with limited opportunities but they just do not lock it in just comes out too easily and eventually our defence will crack due to weight of entries

Barrass yes has been fantastic and should be made captain the leadership he has shown in a very average team is just fantastic AA full back for me.

Talking about leadership......its seriously time to look at both Nicnat and shuey both are letting the team down....Darcy cleaned up Nicnat tonight and really shuey is on his last legs

Thought duggan/hurn and gaff where good tonight showed leadership when we needed it

Darling okay but really should of kicked that goal at the start of the 4th.....needs to step up with no JK

Going forward lack of injuries is going to help but I just do not see a nucleus of a good side ...Midfield is very poor and the youngsters coming through are average plus the rucks are worse...Williams is just crap and Nicnat is always unfit

Hard years ahead
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How young are you or were you still allowed to drop out in year 10 when you went to school?
 
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The wily weagle said:
So you are saying, that Nic is as fit as he can be and wouldn't at all benefit from being lighter?

You are certainly the perennial eagles apologist. I am hardly saying Nic has had a bad career, but all and sundry can clearly see the man is too heavy and could be fitter

Take into account the knee is a weight bearing joint, and having a man come off dual knee reconstructions, and him being as heavy as he is in madness. What I am saying might very well extend the man's career. That's not conjecture, that fact

Please, utilise some common sense and stop being a slavish sycophant.
Click to expand...
He could be fitter, they could all be fitter. We run out of legs every game and have been playing catch-up footy since Round 1. Anything that will extend his career, I’m all for, as he’s an absolute marvel and consistently our most impactful player.

But two things:

1) People are burying dirt on his grave tonight like he was shit (team high seven clearances, second on team with five inside 50s, two open field tackles for HTB for everyone saying he can’t move). He wasn’t his best, his best is an immensely high bar. He was fine today. With another commentary team this wouldn’t be the narrative, I have nfi how you watch that game and have Naitanui outside our best handful of players (albeit well behind our true best ons like Barrass/Duggan).

2) The constant crying about TOG% from people on here is exhausting. They’ve watched Nic make All Aus and win B+F from less TOG than he plays now, and are going “yeah but imagine how could he could be if he got back to 80%”. He’s an old dog with no knees who was always a burst player, and is to this day one of the best clearance machines in footy. By far the best in our team in that regard, he’s basically been our best mid for years now.

People expecting him to change his role at this stage are the same people who cried that you shouldn’t celebrate narrow wins because of percentage and also you shouldn’t celebrate small glimpses of improvement because we lost a game.

Years from now, people will look back and feel pretty guilty that they bitched and moaned through Nic’s career because he was dominating his way and not in the specific image some people have carved out for ‘the AFL ruckman’.
 
NEG - Not one player willing to sort out Serong or Mundy. Getting beaten by Clarke and Aish ( Yes I am old but ffs Aish really, 10 years ago he would of lasted 5 mins in the colts. 15 years ago 30 seconds in under 11s). No aggression from Natinui or Jack Darling. Nicholls and Johanson just a joke. Shuey, Gaff,Ryan to a lesser extent Redden let themselves down and West Coast supporters. Still can't stick a tackle. Adam Simpson my friend, not sure you care enough about the club. It is your profession to coach a AFL club. The big time mate, the attitude and performance of the whole club for the last 2-3 years has been semi professional at best.

POS - Jackson Nelson had a fair dinkum crack. Duggan at last. Xon and Hough will only get better. Bazzo great composure. Tom Barrass a true leader, follow me men. Shannon Hurn plays the way we all would like to play.
 
+ve
1 more game then we can draft our next Gaff/Judd
Good effort at the contest particularly first half.
TB was immense.
Xon and Duggan did well.
Nelson played well as a tagger in the first half.
-ve's
Faded as expected.
NicNat and Ryan looking disinterested and off at times.
Redden and Shuey didn't give us much.
We kicked 7 goals one less than the Bearded God did in his last game which means Oscar Allen having a great pre-season and staying fit is critical.
 
HoneyBadger35 said:
At some point between now and the 32 year old multi knee recon ruckman retiring, you’re going to give up the dream of him becoming an 80% TOG ruck for the first time since 2015. Coincidentally pre the first of two knee recons.

I understand you think Nic (and Ryan and Rioli 🤔) are too big, but Nic’s role is not changing. Not because the club have no spine, or because he’s lazy, but because he’s been an absolute unit since he was 18 and is two knee recons deep whilst over the age of 30.

He plays high 60s to low 70s% TOG. He makes All Australian and wins Best and Fairests this way. That’s who he is. You can get upset about it every week but you’re only wasting your own time.
Click to expand...
As an addition, I know it's popular around here to throw out "credits in the bank" at the selection table, however, if there was any player on our list who legitimately deserves "credits in the bank" it is Naitanui. Naitanui at times, single-handedly, made our midfield moderately competitive. His 2020 and 2021 was at a higher level than I've seen from a ruckman in all my time watching football (yes, even that of Dean Cox).
Tonight was a night where he was poor. The conditions were conducive to a ruckman who doesn't jump (i.e. his opponent) and Darcy is a top-tier ruckman in his own right (I had him as second best last year).

He has played eight games this year, his season having been broken up by injuries.
He has averaged 13 disposals, 29 HOs and almost 6 clearances.
So, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of one more season because I think he has earned that right.
There is no better ruck on our list or currently available for 2023 (including Jackson) so I'm going to afford him the same right as Kennedy and Hurn to call time on his career.

I remain hopeful that he can recapture his form over the off-season (with the obvious need for a continued focus on fitness) and still become the premier ruckman in the game. If not, well he has still repaid the club tenfold for them sticking with him during his long-term injuries.
 
A loss but it was an excellent game given we haven’t seen heart and pressure like that from the boys in a while with some great individual performances. Games like these really highlight those who give it a real crack and those who cause us issues.

Positives

Big positive as a team - the heart and passion showed for the first half. The boys were into it, wrestling, getting into the heads of the opposition, hard at the footy and giving it a real crack. Was great to watch while it lasted. Definitely more positives than negatives, however as above, definitely highlights areas of the team that aren’t quite up to scratch.

Our entire flipping defense. Barrass. Absolute weapon, in a tough season he’s evolved into one of the best key defenders in the game. Smashed Lobb all day long, marked well in poor conditions and was extremely reliable in the contest. Will have his work cut out for him next week. Bazzo. Did some good things, used the ball well, only the 11 touches but as an 18 year old key defender I reckon we’ve found a good one. O’Neill. Great game, his line breaking pace is impressive and it‘s something we’ve desperately needed since a young Shuey. Duggan had plenty of it, generally used the ball well and was always hard at it. Hurn at 34 is unbelievably reliable and he’s still one of our most important players.

Nelson. Credit where credit is due, owned Brayshaw today. I’m generally a Nelson hater but we really didn’t see much of Brayshaw all game.

Negatives

Fitness. It was a tough slog of a game but it highlights where we should be and our fitness standards are just not there.

Midfield. Some of these old buggers have been great for the club in their day but there needs to be some discussion as to their role at the club. The midfield is getting smacked every week. We are incredibly lucky to have such a solid back line. Important to have experience around in a rebuild phase but not when it’s at the detriment of putting run into the legs of our future players. This will only get worse next year when we have names like Chesser pushing for selectrion.

Gaff. Once upon a time opposition teams would tag him due to his disposal. Now he’s not even worth a second thought. SLOW in every action whether it’s running, decision making or his ball drop, no opposite side, doesn’t tackle or chase and his disposal is atrocious. In standard West Coast fashion he won’t - but he should be on the outer next year in favour of a young bloke and considering his options elsewhere after 2023.

Naitanui. Gave us nothing today. Looks slow, heavy, unfit and uncoordinated. His body is clearly letting him down after all of these years. Let go of some mongrel punt into the 50 which went out on the full and the turnover resulted in a Fremantle goal. Agree with above, if he can’t get through a full pre-season unscathed he needs to seriously consider his future, particluarly when the likes of Luke Jackson are looking for a return ticket home. He has relied on athleticism for so long but it’s now past him. Between Naitanui, Dixon and Williams our ruck stocks are in shambles.

Ryan. In a game played at ground level he was nowhere to be seen. Second consecutive goalless week. Weak at the contest, throws himself on the ground in search of a free kick. Plays with an obviously poor attitude and needs a serious adjustment if we’re going to make an improvement next year, particularly with the loss of Kennedy. Between Ryan and Langdon they didn’t even fire a shot. Langdon is no good. Also a negative.
 
Great effort and intensity out there.

It will be a juggling act next year trying yo respectfully phase out shuey, hurn, redden, cripps etc.

Certainly agree nic needs to shed fatty kg's. He was rocking a beard...thats the go to for covering up a double chin ( i should.know) hes probably got 2 more years in him but im not confident.

Similarly with yeo, its 3 injury.ruined seasons for him. I cant see him getting back to his peak. Getting serious Kerr vibes.
 
HoneyBadger35 said:
At some point between now and the 32 year old multi knee recon ruckman retiring, you’re going to give up the dream of him becoming an 80% TOG ruck for the first time since 2015. Coincidentally pre the first of two knee recons.

I understand you think Nic (and Ryan and Rioli 🤔) are too big, but Nic’s role is not changing. Not because the club have no spine, or because he’s lazy, but because he’s been an absolute unit since he was 18 and is two knee recons deep whilst over the age of 30.

He plays high 60s to low 70s% TOG. He makes All Australian and wins Best and Fairests this way. That’s who he is. You can get upset about it every week but you’re only wasting your own time.
Click to expand...

Naitanui's role isn't changing, but the above isn't correct. This is what Naitanui looked like when he was 18. I'd be surprised if he was more than 90kg when drafted. He was previously listed around 100kg after a couple of years in the system and is now 110+.

GVQ18V5GN.1-1.jpg


He played 79% TOG in 2011, 82% in 2012, 72% 2013, 77% 2014, 75% 2015. It was really 2018 onward after his first ACL in 2016 that his TOG dropped. 57% 2018, 56% 2019, 69% 2020, 68% 2021, 68% this year.

His TOG while not ideal was accepted because he's a burst athlete. We've also had different tactics depending who the other ruckman is. We were 50/50 with Cox and Naitanui, then had 50/50 patches with Sinclair then Lycett. Recently we've had Hickey, Williams, Allen, Vardy and have basically reverted to all Naitanui's TOG being in the ruck. We don't have the luxury to play him 80% TOG and have him 50% in the ruck, 30% forward and 20% on the bench.

Watching him tonight was sad. In previous years he would've run down <insert Flogmantle player> and driven him into the turf, or the prospect of Naitanui behind him would've spooked said Flogmantle player into a rushed disposal. Instead he just ran away like Nic wasn't there.

He looks porky, and if he's playing low TOG and not having an impact when he does it's a concern.
 
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WAFClatfd said:
Still can't stick a tackle. Adam Simpson my friend, not sure you care enough about the club. It is your profession to coach a AFL club.
Click to expand...
Last week we had our highest tackle count in three years and then had our second highest tackle count this week?

We’ve gone from last in tackling to top half in the league this year.
 
HoneyBadger35 said:
He could be fitter, they could all be fitter. We run out of legs every game and have been playing catch-up footy since Round 1. Anything that will extend his career, I’m all for, as he’s an absolute marvel and consistently our most impactful player.

But two things:

1) People are burying dirt on his grave tonight like he was s**t (team high seven clearances, second on team with five inside 50s, two open field tackles for HTB for everyone saying he can’t move). He wasn’t his best, his best is an immensely high bar. He was fine today. With another commentary team this wouldn’t be the narrative, I have nfi how you watch that game and have Naitanui outside our best handful of players (albeit well behind our true best ons like Barrass/Duggan).

2) The constant crying about TOG% from people on here is exhausting. They’ve watched Nic make All Aus and win B+F from less TOG than he plays now, and are going “yeah but imagine how could he could be if he got back to 80%”. He’s an old dog with no knees who was always a burst player, and is to this day one of the best clearance machines in footy. By far the best in our team in that regard, he’s basically been our best mid for years now.

People expecting him to change his role at this stage are the same people who cried that you shouldn’t celebrate narrow wins because of percentage and also you shouldn’t celebrate small glimpses of improvement because we lost a game.

Years from now, people will look back and feel pretty guilty that they bitched and moaned through Nic’s career because he was dominating his way and not in the specific image some people have carved out for ‘the AFL ruckman’.
Click to expand...

Imagine if he could play his 60% actually in shape?
 

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