Preview Pre-match discussion Round 13 Carlton V Fremantle

[zeeCFC]

If he has an extended stay in the ants that will be the end of his tenure at Carlton. He really needed to show more in his latest stint with the Blues.

He didn't though.

And that might be curtains...

depends how the rookies go, but he's a good depth player

 

[Silvagnis]

depends how the rookies go, but he's a good depth player

If we chuck Browne, who do we replace him with in a compromised draft?

 

[zeeCFC]

If we chuck Browne, who do we replace him with in a compromised draft?

Your mate, 2E

 

[rp84]

If we chuck Browne, who do we replace him with in a compromised draft?

I think Browne's best is pretty average. He gives us nothing unique. He's slow, not very athletic, doesn't read the play very well, and is not a great disposer of the ball. While he is not terrible in many aspects, and he IS usually hard at the footy, he is definitely not an AFL player.

There have been a lot better players than him cut from a list. Unfortunately, because our depth is so good, he will struggle to be with us next year. We need to delist three players. I doubt there'll be a rookie spot for him. We need to keep our rookie KPPs.

He's won't be in our best 30 players after a few years at the club. Probably means he won't make it.

We will just redraft someone late, and pick a speculative tall and maybe a ruckman if we trade one at the end of the year. Most ruckmen take about 5-7 years to be useful, so either this year, or next will go for one.

May even look at some mature aged players, after the success of so many this year.

 

[gbatman]

The axe will be swung this week, with out a doubt. Possible ins are Lucas, Bower (Hampson/Warnock) and Yarran and ones with a slim chance are Henderson and Mclean.

For me:

B: Armfield Jamison Russell
HB: Walker Bower Joseph
C: Simpson Judd Scotland
HF: Yarran Waite Garlett
F: Betts O'hAilpin Houlihan
OB: Kreuzer Murphy Gibbs
IC: Hampson Lucas Hadley Carrazzo

IN:

Hampson - We need to get him in now he's going and that spot has not been cemented by any one yet.

Lucas - is far too skillful, smart and too good to be in the VFL.

Yarran - we need our 3 small forwards together to compliment each other, he's too good for the VFL, need him back in.

Bower - Is far too good for the VFL, been missing him in the team.

OUT:

Thornton - is not very good, over rated by carlton supporters, is just a reasonable fill in and the guy he has been filling in for is back.

Jacobs - Had a shocker, needs to go back to the VFL and realise he has cemented nothing. One of Hampson or Warnock has earnt a recall and an oppertunity.

Browne - is not good enough, offers little to the side in terms of intensity, speed, attack on the ball and ability to shut down opposition players. Like thornton is just a fill in.

Robinson - unlucky but good players are due back and there isn't a spot for him.


Only ones who are unlucky to miss out are Robinson and Henderson. Ellard is unlucky if he doesn't get a chance soon. O'hAilpin needs to perform or Henderson will come in for him.

Our players need to know that when we lose bad the axe will swing.

 

[inyourcool]

If we chuck Browne, who do we replace him with in a compromised draft?

Browne was a 3rd round pick, a speculative pick which isn't working out.

Replace him with another 3rd round pick which might have upside. Steven isn't showing that he has any upside tbh

 

[Blueboys7]

Jacobs - Had a shocker, needs to go back to the VFL and realise he has cemented nothing. One of Hampson or Warnock has earnt a recall and an oppertunity.

Agree with your INS and OUTS apart from this one. I thought Jacobs was good, he won hit outs, kicked well, took some good marks, clearances and got to alot of contests.

I think he will stay in.

 

[Blues_Man]

Jacobs - Had a shocker, needs to go back to the VFL and realise he has cemented nothing. One of Hampson or Warnock has earnt a recall and an oppertunity.

.

We must have watched different games ..because i thought Jacobs was very good Friday night ..much better than Kruezer.

 

[Blue since 72]

We must have watched different games ..because i thought Jacobs was very good Friday night ..much better than Kruezer.

+1. Be very surprised if Sauce is dropped other than to have a rest, which I doubt.

 

[HARKER]

We must have watched different games ..because i thought Jacobs was very good Friday night ..much better than Kruezer.

My thoughts exactly, or at least from the three quarters I saw.
I still think that Warnock will bring more to the table than Jacobs eventually, but right now Jacobs is doing all that is asked of him.

We may surprise by bring Hampson in, with his leap to counter (or at least try to counter) Sandilands height.

Who knows

 

[Blue since 72]

My thoughts exactly, or at least from the three quarters I saw.
I still think that Warnock will bring more to the table than Jacobs eventually, but right now Jacobs is doing all that is asked of him.

We may surprise by bring Hampson in, with his leap to counter (or at least try to counter) Sandilands height.

Who knows

This will be interesting to see if it eventuates H. Can 206 put and keep enough muscle on to hold his ground as Sauce does and both players athletisism around the ground is pretty much line ball thus far. Maybe 206 has a slight leg speed advantage but neither are in the same league as Krueze and Hammer for pace.

Sauce still the best ruckman to advantage we have.

 

[rampar]

I might get hung for this but I think Kruz needs a spell. And for gods sake, give gibbs an entire game in the midfield!

cheers

 

[Boltfromtheblue]

There seems to be a lot of debate about the ruck situation based on differing views of how Jacobs has been going and whether Kreuzer needs a rest additional to the bye following the Freo game.

Given the Sandilands will win the ruck contest (I think this is a reasonable assumption…he is by far the dominant ruckman of the competition), how do we manage the ruck contest against him?

Do we try to place a big strong ruck to at least compete to some degree and try to negate the Sandilands advantage a little? Do we go for a more mobile, athletic option that will be better in the 2nd and 3rd efforts when the ball comes to ground? I haven’t watched the Freo games to see how successful opposition have countered Sandilands.

Presently I think Jacobs is our best ruck (amazing that he has only played about 11 senior games!), and that Kreuzer seems to be a bit flat. Without any figures to back up the argument, my impression is that Kreuze still has better mobility around the ground (I am in no way saying Jacobs is shabby). Hammer seems to be doing well and reportedly had a good one against reasonable opposition on the weekend. Hammer also has the height and size (not sure about the positioning and smarts) to play as much of a negating role against Sandilands as Jacobs would.

Without any inside knowledge about injuries, fatigue, etc, I’d be tempted to go for Kreuze and Hammer this weekend to optimize speed and mobility, conceding that the ruck itself will become a matter of negating the advantage as much as possible and then winning the ball at ground level. Have to say that I do like Jacob’s efforts but just wonder if the opposition this week needs something a bit different.

So, if we lose the ruck contest itself, who will be best midfielders around the ball? Is the role of a hard inside mid as important in this context, as when you are wining the ruck to advantage? I would tend to think that there is more a role for quicker paced mids who can read the play and change position quickly and get at the opposition to apply pressure. Therefore, I wonder if Hadley and McLean may not be as important for this match?

A lot has been said about team structures and the importance of an inside mid. No doubt many will say that this is key part of the structure…and this may be true. I think it would be interesting to give Eddie a run in the middle this week, Gibbs more time around the ball, in addition to the usual suspects of Judd, Murphy etc. Yarran and Garlett don’t seem to have the tank to go to the midfield for prolonged periods, but I would throw them there a bit more often especially if we are getting done. They are just clever footballers and very creative. Again I think Hadley seems to have mostly performed his role and I like him as a player. Also from the little I have seen of McLean at training, he seems really sharp in his ball use but seems to have struggled in a few of the games, possibly through injury. One of these 2 has a role most games, but I wonder if this week needs to be approached a bit differently.

Any merit is this…or complete crap?

Go blue boys!

 

[DamianBis]

Jacobs in the ruck most of the time. he's built very big. he'll be able to push sandipants around a bit... Jacobs and Kruze or Hampson to back him up... Or you can go with the mobile ruckmen and just provide a contest in the ruck which would mean kruze and hampson

 

[BlueBelle]

Funny comment by someone who asked if Ellard could replace Joseph.

Browne didn't go in hard enough in that one contest, but I've also seen some of his teammates do worse than that.

And escape criticism.

Name players around the same size who don't go in low and hard like Chapman if there's a ball to be won at ground level.

They try to cherry pick it running past.

Stupid comment to write Browne who is usually a brave player with no regard for his safety.

Nothing overly wrong with Browne's disposal.

Browne obviously isn't Yarran or Gibbs, but he can kick and take a mark for his size.

Most of the side played poorly, yet we choose to hunt out a second tier player with just 23 games under his belt.

As per usual.

I asked because I have no idea what role Ellard plays for the Ants because I haven't seen him play for the Ants

From what I have seen from Browne this year, he hasn't impressed and that is my opinion, which I am entitled to, as are you.

I just think the players we have pushing for selection deserve a chance, just as Browne was given one. Unfortunately, he failed to impress and should be dropped.

Pretty simple logic if you ask me.

 

[rp84]

I might get hung for this but I think Kruz needs a spell. And for gods sake, give gibbs an entire game in the midfield!

cheers

nah mate, not a bad call at all. Kruezer clearly needs a week offf this week, which would give him two in a row. The benefit of that would be enormous. It's obvious he is a little tired. If we want to win games in Sept, we willl need fresh players. Lucky for us, our backline will be hitting good fitness during finals, if they stay uninjured.

I'm one of the few people that think Gibbs should notplay a full game in the middle. It's hard with matchups and the like, and he is so good off half back normally. If we play Judd, Murph, a defensive mid and an in and under like Hadley or Brock, there is only room to rotate through. I still think Murphy is a far better player in the tight confines of a centre bounce. Gibbs uses it so well of halfback or from the wing area, that is where we need him.

 

[blues4flag]

He uses it so much better through the midfield and forward of centre. Plays it too safe from half back for mine. Midfields go a lot deeper than the three that line up in the centre square but he's better value to us in congestion and linking through the middle.

 

[Silvagnis]

We should pick Austin purely to hit Ballantyne again.

guns would agree.

 

[Wolfcastle]

Jacobs in the ruck most of the time. he's built very big. he'll be able to push sandipants around a bit... Jacobs and Kruze or Hampson to back him up... Or you can go with the mobile ruckmen and just provide a contest in the ruck which would mean kruze and hampson

Kreuzer to me seems like he could handle a role like Kouta played,big, mobile midfielder,take him out of the ruck contests and into the midfield rotations.Imagine a scenario of Jacobs and Hampson sharing ruck duties,Kreuzer at ground level smashing into smaller opposition midfielders,he has the tank and second efforts covered.If this was to eventuate he would also provide an option at kickouts,he runs to one flank with designated players roving,Hampson/Jacobs do exactly the same to the other flank,kickout has two viable long options.

 

[Sublime]

Kreuzer to me seems like he could handle a role like Kouta played,big, mobile midfielder,take him out of the ruck contests and into the midfield rotations.Imagine a scenario of Jacobs and Hampson sharing ruck duties,Kreuzer at ground level smashing into smaller opposition midfielders,he has the tank and second efforts covered.If this was to eventuate he would also provide an option at kickouts,he runs to one flank with designated players roving,Hampson/Jacobs do exactly the same to the other flank,kickout has two viable long options.

We could possibly trial the 3 ruckmen against Sandilands i think. Try to run him off his feet perhaps. Have 2 rucks on the ground at a time, one contesting hitouts then pushing hard forward, the other playing about a kick behind the play (perhaps Kreuz). If Sandilands doesn't follow forward we could create a height mismatch forward, if he hangs back the other ruck can chop out his run. Either Sandilands works harder than usual, or we create mismatches drifting forward.

Not saying it should be done, but could be a possible option?

 

[blues4flag]

Surely they'd just push a tall defender up to the contest, have him cover the ruck who's pushing forward and let Sandilands worry about the other?

Or worse, him one kick behind the play as a rebound defender and only covering the ruckman once he's in a dangerous position.

 

[Sublime]

Surely they'd just push a tall defender up to the contest, have him cover the ruck who's pushing forward and let Sandilands worry about the other?

And then what about our tall forwards?

To do that they'd be constantly shuffling players every time our tall drifted forward from the ruckwork and could/would cause confusion.

 

[gbatman]

Jacobs went well but 8 posessions is not that good. I think Hammer can ruck just as well and give us a bit more, i could be wrong but there would be no harm in finding out. Jacobs has been going ok, he has not been starring, he has just been going ok.

 

[mechula]

out.judd, murphy, joseph, brown,houlihan,armfield,jamieson,thornton,russell,walker,garlett. thought they were all shit ,and need to go in alot harder than they did on friday night. in.lucus, davies ellard.tohey,hampson,grigg .yarran.mclean,cochia,donaldson warnock, Im just sick and tired of players that have one bad game, have a really bad turnover or for once not prepared to put there body on the line, They need to spend some time in the ants

 

[skyblue]

out.judd, murphy, joseph, brown,houlihan,armfield,jamieson,thornton,russell,walker,garlett. thought they were all shit ,and need to go in alot harder than they did on friday night. in.lucus, davies ellard.tohey,hampson,grigg .yarran.mclean,cochia,donaldson warnock, Im just sick and tired of players that have one bad game, have a really bad turnover or for once not prepared to put there body on the line, They need to spend some time in the ants

Better still.On a loss lets drop 22 bring up 22 from the ants.
The whole team were pathetic .Hope no heartless performance again against the Shockers.