Preview RD 15:- Carlton v Western Bulldogs, discussion, changes

[Windhover]

jj1978 (Post 139) The doggies may be without Minson but they will bring in a second ruckman to back up Hudson, who will be more than a handful for Jacobs. Further, we need 2 ruckmen for finals (unless you belong to the much discredited football school that argues ruckmen are over-rated - which may be so until you don't have one - see Hawthorn early 2010). Further still Hampson needs game time to acclimatise to top level football before a decision can be made about him. I would play him as the ruckman from the opening bounce and get him involved in the game.

Secondly, you have not justified the selection of Wiggie. What constructive short term or long term advantage is there in selecting him?

 

[jj1978]

jj1978 (Post 139) The doggies may be without Minson but they will bring in a second ruckman to back up Hudson, who will be more than a handful for Jacobs. Further, we need 2 ruckmen for finals (unless you belong to the much discredited football school that argues ruckmen are over-rated - which may be so until you don't have one - see Hawthorn early 2010). Further still Hampson needs game time to acclimatise to top level football before a decision can be made about him. I would play him as the ruckman from the opening bounce and get him involved in the game.

Secondly, you have not justified the selection of Wiggie. What constructive short term or long term advantage is there in selecting him?

I realise Dogs will have 2 ruckmen, but I still think Jacobs has shown he can handle the task as he did when Kreuzer went down the other week.

Wiggins who has been in good form, kicking goals in the forward line brings in matureness, hardness and heart. If I recall he was instrumental in our last few wins against the dogs too. At the moment Setanta as a goal kicking forward is questionable... Wiggins is a good extra forward (who can play a defensive role), this would leave Setanta to play a second fiddle ruck role as a well.

 

[blue healer]

jj1978 (Post 139) The doggies may be without Minson but they will bring in a second ruckman to back up Hudson, who will be more than a handful for Jacobs. Further, we need 2 ruckmen for finals (unless you belong to the much discredited football school that argues ruckmen are over-rated - which may be so until you don't have one - see Hawthorn early 2010). Further still Hampson needs game time to acclimatise to top level football before a decision can be made about him. I would play him as the ruckman from the opening bounce and get him involved in the game.

Secondly, you have not justified the selection of Wiggie. What constructive short term or long term advantage is there in selecting him?

I'll come in again on the Wiggo debate as I've promoted him a bit of late as I'm a fan.

I don't think there is any longterm advantage but short term requirements change each week. I thought he should have been considered last week as I thought we needed a bit of his agro. I don't think he should be in this week as I think we need our most skilled team against the Dogs.

I think we have a history of making minimal changes to winning teams when sometimes you need to inject a different style of player to match the team your playing. eg I would try Wiggo against mongrels like Hawthorn but wouldn't consider him against Geelong.

All I'm saying is that I'd like to see more of a "horses for courses" strategy, and Wiggo is a player suited against certain opponents.

 

[Snoozer]

Rather than drop Joseph, I'd like to see him spend more time on the ball. He's always reminded me of a young Ratts with added speed and agility.

Think he will eventually make a very good onballer as he develops and why not start now?

I think Joseph is more suited to midfield too, although purely defensive. He doesn't have the disposal to be damaging. I see him as an elite endurance athlete, and I don't think he's nimble or smart enough to consistently beat small forwards, particularly ones who can isolate him deep forward. I actually think the MC have Joseph's and Armfield roles arse-about. Armfield is lightning quick around and through traffic, and is ultra-disciplined. Joseph is too easily lost in traffic and while he is a brilliant runner over distance, isn't quick enough to shut down in a hurry.

Bower is the critical one. Gotta get him right. Gives us back Gibbs to create, rather than chase around blokes like Luke Power who hasn't had a kick for 3 months.

 

[happydude]

wiggo for grigg?
They have similar names after all

 

[blue healer]

I think Joseph is more suited to midfield too, although purely defensive. He doesn't have the disposal to be damaging. I see him as an elite endurance athlete, and I don't think he's nimble or smart enough to consistently beat small forwards, particularly ones who can isolate him deep forward. I actually think the MC have Joseph's and Armfield roles arse-about. Armfield is lightning quick around and through traffic, and is ultra-disciplined. Joseph is too easily lost in traffic and while he is a brilliant runner over distance, isn't quick enough to shut down in a hurry.

Bower is the critical one. Gotta get him right. Gives us back Gibbs to create, rather than chase around blokes like Luke Power who hasn't had a kick for 3 months.

Don't disagree with your comments on Joseph but still think the potential as a mid is high. Let's revisit in 2 years time

 

[Kramer1]

I agree his year has been average IMO and he flys under the radar with the attention given to Thornton. As bad as Thornton is supposed to be playing I still have more confidence in his ability to both win the ball and dispose of it than I do in Jammo

I believe Jammo has lots of potential but not too many fullbacks hit their best before their mid to late 20's. I think Lake is an example of this

Interesting topic that crossed my mind on Thursday night.

Jamo's disposal and decision making has generally been pretty reliable to date. He's never gone out of his way to make the play, but I always felt comfortable with the ball in his hands.

Seems to be a lot of second guessing this year, ignoring the first (and often best) option and creating unecessary pressure. My best guess is that he has been instructed to get the hands off to the running half backs to make the play (clear to see this has also been the instruction with our rucks).

A good plan in theory, and our disposal out of the backline has improved (it could hardly go backwards), but I would have through this unecessary in Jamo's case. I agree with Walls eek, would love to see him take the game on a little more.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Watching the replay last night I noticed that whenever Brisbane had the ball in our attacking 50, Betts, Yarran and Garlett all chased the ball carrier which is an instinctive action, more often than not these chases resulted in turnovers.

We really need to stop 'corralling' players and start hitting the ball carrier... It's been said time and time again on here but it's a useless thing to do. Watch Collingwood always attacking the ball carrier, their pressure is immense and that is how they win.

 

[Windhover]

I realise Dogs will have 2 ruckmen, but I still think Jacobs has shown he can handle the task as he did when Kreuzer went down the other week.

Wiggins who has been in good form, kicking goals in the forward line brings in matureness, hardness and heart. If I recall he was instrumental in our last few wins against the dogs too. At the moment Setanta as a goal kicking forward is questionable... Wiggins is a good extra forward (who can play a defensive role), this would leave Setanta to play a second fiddle ruck role as a well.

I agree with you that Jacobs is likely to "handle the task as he did when Kreuzer went down". It is no disrespect to Jacobs (given who he was against) to point out that his 20 hitouts to Sandilands 49 (28 to 60 in total), and 9 disposals meant he was thrashed. It does not seem to me to be sensible pre-match planning to ensure we are thrashed in the starting point of a game, and where physical presence can really count. Throwing Setanta in the ruck sounds like desperation and inconsistency. He has been told that he will be played as a KPF. Presumably he has trained to perfect his role in that position, which, until recently, he had exceeded the expectations of most. Now, if the MC are to follow your suggestion, he is to be made a jack of all trades, master of none, and play in the ruck which he has not previously excelled and, presumably, a position he has not specifically trained for this year.

I understand Wiggins has been in good form in the VFL. You suggest he should play as an extra forward, apparently as a replacement for Setanta. Wiggins is not a tall forward. You say he brings in "matureness, hardness and heart". This suggests that you believe that current players lack "hardness and heart". Who precisely?

Short-term planning has no place for Wiggins as there is no obvious place in the side for him. Houlihan is the player most obviously taking Wiggins place in the side. They are both the same age and history correctly notes that Houlihan has been a regular player in the side (to our great benefit) since he first walked into the club whilst Wiggins has never been able to maintain his place in the side - despite years of glaring deficiencies in the sides we have fielded. The reason for this is that Wiggins is a hopeless decision maker with the ball at AFL level.

It goes without saying long-term planning has no place for Wiggins. Grigg and Hampson both need massive game time so that their potential can be realised. They each need at least the month of July in the side. If they are not up to it out they go but they need that chance. Wiggins has had that chance many times.

 

[rp84]

I agree with you that Jacobs is likely to....

Very sound argument.

Setanta should play, if not hurt. Grigg has a spot for now. I am definitely more of a fan of Warnock, so want to see him in the team. Think his height advantage could be useful when the dogs are missing a ruck.

Now, this is from left of field...How about Jacobs plays from the goal square, and Warnock/ Hampson rucks? Jacobs hands have been very good, and his one or two set shots have looked fine. He consistently takes marks with pressure on him, something Hampson cannot do.

 

[StringyDog]

They like us have a few pacey smalls that will need close checking throughout the game so we can't affort to drop any of Armfield, Joseph and Carazzo.

We do, have they been hiding under a mat all season...??? Dogs have no pacey smalls unless Stack comes in, it has been biggest problem this year, we simply have no crumbers without Akermanis. Grant and Hall off lead are only quick players there and they are the talls, others Higgins, Giansiracusa, Hahn and Johnson are all one paced.

 

[Windhover]

Very sound argument.

Setanta should play, if not hurt. Grigg has a spot for now. I am definitely more of a fan of Warnock, so want to see him in the team. Think his height advantage could be useful when the dogs are missing a ruck.

Now, this is from left of field...How about Jacobs plays from the goal square, and Warnock/ Hampson rucks? Jacobs hands have been very good, and his one or two set shots have looked fine. He consistently takes marks with pressure on him, something Hampson cannot do.

I do not know why you are a fan of Warnock. He was dropped because he kept on being pushed aside in ruck contests. Hopefully he can add 10 kgs to his frame but until then I think he is VFL grade only at this stage. I agree with you that Jacobs has improved in his marking but I do not recall him taking contested grabs on the forward line (maybe he did once against Hawthorn). Hampson has been training as a ruckman/forward. He scored goals from marks at VFL level. We need to see if he can reproduce that form at AFL level. If he can his superior athleticism makes him a much more likely success in this role than Jacobs. A tall forward who cannot run can be a real liability (think of Whitnall going back or, more recently, the game Walker played on Hawkins this year).

 

[rp84]

I do not know why you are a fan of Warnock. He was dropped because he kept on being pushed aside in ruck contests. Hopefully he can add 10 kgs to his frame but until then I think he is VFL grade only at this stage. I agree with you that Jacobs has improved in his marking but I do not recall him taking contested grabs on the forward line (maybe he did once against Hawthorn). Hampson has been training as a ruckman/forward. He scored goals from marks at VFL level. We need to see if he can reproduce that form at AFL level. If he can his superior athleticism makes him a much more likely success in this role than Jacobs. A tall forward who cannot run can be a real liability (think of Whitnall going back or, more recently, the game Walker played on Hawkins this year).

Fair call all around. I guess I just think Warnock will be a better footballer than Hampson, and we all just keep getting caught up with his much vaunted potential. He has literally shown nothing on an AFL field. A few flashy plays last year means nothing to me anyway. Saying that, I would love to see him fill his potential and be a superstar. Just really don't think it will happen. And until the Kreuzer injury, he had one foot out the door already, I think.

Sauce hasn't taken many grabs up forward, but plenty of contested marks around the ground and deep in defence with heaps of pressure on him. The key to it working would be getting him a goal or two early so they have to play a bigger body on him. Just a point of interest anyway. If Hawkins got a couple quick ones in that game, it would've been a different story.

We should be able to stretch their defence this week with a ruck, plus Setanta and the ever-improving Hendo.

 

[Boltfromtheblue]

There was mention of 2 incidents from the Dogs v. Hawks match. Both cleared.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/97542/default.aspx

Contact between the Western Bulldogs’ Ryan Griffen and Hawthorn’s Sam Mitchell from the second quarter of Friday’s match was assessed. The panel said that Mitchell was gathering the ball as Griffen was moving towards the contest. Mitchell turned to his left as Griffen was running past and Griffen makes high contact to Mitchell with his upper arm. The panel said the action was not a striking motion and was not a bumping motion and the contact was not considered reportable. No further action was taken.

Contact between the Western Bulldogs’ Brian Lake and Hawthorn’s Lance Franklin from the fourth quarter of Friday’s match was assessed. The contact was below that required to constitute a reportable offence. No further action was taken.

 

[blue gunslinger]

He meant football, not playing with yourself! Otherwise you would be first picked every week.

I will remember that next time you need a favour Tarquin
With the 3 rug rats that area of the fun park is now closed indefinately
A game when we are not favourites must make us a chance and we will have had plenty of rest. It is the kind of game we could really do well in.

 

[HeziBarecket]

bring back WIGGINS and FISHER!

Wiggo alway s plays well against the Bullies becuase he is that sort of small, nuggety toughnut like the typical Bulldog player and they find it hard to match up against him. Remember two years ago when he kicked 5 goals against them? Even if there is no room, i reckon he can play down back flank where Army plays, but Wiggo will be more accountable down back and will match up well against the nuggety Footscray forwards. The guy literally bleeds for the club, he works so hard it shocked he has been overlooked, but I think bring in a hungry player like him to go out on a high in what could be his last game at the club i reckon he could be BOG if given the opportunity against them, you watch!

Fisher is the unluckiest guy int the AFL, but he was in career best form at the beginning of the year taking great grabs, kicking goals and showing lots of mobility and agression. Let him play a Travis Cloke type role in the forward line, he can make alot of play for Garlett, Yarra and Betts! Also Fisher kicked a bag this week, I reckon give him a slot this week and he'll kick three and play better than Hendo, or he might free Hendo up to play closer to the square and take marks so he can take shots at closer range.

but it' just not fair Fisher andWiggo aren't given this chance to enable us to beat the Dogs back to the kennel!

 

[Silvagnis]

bring back WIGGINS and FISHER!

Wiggo alway s plays well against the Bullies becuase he is that sort of small, nuggety toughnut like the typical Bulldog player and they find it hard to match up against him. Remember two years ago when he kicked 5 goals against them? Even if there is no room, i reckon he can play down back flank where Army plays, but Wiggo will be more accountable down back and will match up well against the nuggety Footscray forwards. The guy literally bleeds for the club, he works so hard it shocked he has been overlooked, but I think bring in a hungry player like him to go out on a high in what could be his last game at the club i reckon he could be BOG if given the opportunity against them, you watch!

Fisher is the unluckiest guy int the AFL, but he was in career best form at the beginning of the year taking great grabs, kicking goals and showing lots of mobility and agression. Let him play a Travis Cloke type role in the forward line, he can make alot of play for Garlett, Yarra and Betts! Also Fisher kicked a bag this week, I reckon give him a slot this week and he'll kick three and play better than Hendo, or he might free Hendo up to play closer to the square and take marks so he can take shots at closer range.

but it' just not fair Fisher andWiggo aren't given this chance to enable us to beat the Dogs back to the kennel!

It appears an adverse reaction to sleeping tablets can be contagious.

Leave humour to the professionals.

 

[zeeCFC]

It appears an adverse reaction to sleeping tablets can be contagious.

Leave humour to the professionals.

but Thy hardly posts anymore

 

[The Big Sticks]

Interesting topic that crossed my mind on Thursday night.

Jamo's disposal and decision making has generally been pretty reliable to date. He's never gone out of his way to make the play, but I always felt comfortable with the ball in his hands.

Seems to be a lot of second guessing this year, ignoring the first (and often best) option and creating unecessary pressure. My best guess is that he has been instructed to get the hands off to the running half backs to make the play (clear to see this has also been the instruction with our rucks).

A good plan in theory, and our disposal out of the backline has improved (it could hardly go backwards), but I would have through this unecessary in Jamo's case. I agree with Walls eek, would love to see him take the game on a little more.

It might just be me but I thought Jamo actually did take the opposition on more than usual. Instead of giving off the handball he would shrug off and run around his would be tackler to get a kick away. That surprised me and I was wondering if maybe he had listened to what Walls said

 

[Ryan Dixon Webb]

If we can get Bower back, then Thornton should get dumped. Wouldn't mind seeing Sugar Lucas or Marcus 'The Brick Eater' Davies in the side, but I'm not sure who'd they'd nudge out as I think the MC will give Grigg more games to prove himself.

I'd like to see...

In: Lucas, Bower (Davies)
Out: Grigg, Thornton

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It might just be me but I thought Jamo actually did take the opposition on more than usual. Instead of giving off the handball he would shrug off and run around his would be tackler to get a kick away. That surprised me and I was wondering if maybe he had listened to what Walls said

He certainly did get involved more. 14 possessions is pretty high for Jamo. Has a 15 this year against the Saints and 16 is his highest ever. Certainly more involved than the 4, 8, and 4 of the previous three weeks.

 

[inyourcool]

Grigg wont be dropped. Ratts doesn't bring in players for a one-game stint.
He will stay in the side

 

[stabface]

Grigg wont be dropped. Ratts doesn't bring in players for a one-game stint.
He will stay in the side

Not sure why everyone says this. Assuming Ratts wasn't playing mindgames with the opposition prior to the Freo match then Armfield is an example of this happening.

 

[Snoozer]

If we can get Bower back, then Thornton should get dumped. Wouldn't mind seeing Sugar Lucas or Marcus 'The Brick Eater' Davies in the side, but I'm not sure who'd they'd nudge out as I think the MC will give Grigg more games to prove himself.

I'd like to see...

In: Lucas, Bower (Davies)
Out: Grigg, Thornton

Won't happen. Bower comes in to free up Gibbs to play midfield. If Thornton is dropped, Bower takes his match-up and Gibbs stays put. Even though Bower is a better footballer, dropping Thornton doesn't help us structure-wise. Bower is crucial to our success, but his inclusion cannot be at the expense of another tall... especially this week when Brian Lake will almost certainly play forward.

Bower to come in for Grigg or one of the other peripheral midfielders.

 

[Cazbah]

It might just be me but I thought Jamo actually did take the opposition on more than usual. Instead of giving off the handball he would shrug off and run around his would be tackler to get a kick away. That surprised me and I was wondering if maybe he had listened to what Walls said

They interviewed him on this exact thing on the sunday footy show after our loss to Freo. He basically said: "i need to grow in confidence, run off the backline more and take on my opponents so i can become more involved."

Obviously he listened to his own advice