Autopsy Rd 6 Carlton v Brisbane - Walsh & McKay on fire *Cough*We Lost Again*Cough*

[J-dog]

Levi is playing injured and doing his best and at least making opposition start to worry about him crushing them. What did Plowman do so wrong toinight - he was very good under poressure a few times I noticed him.

Oh, come on now! Haha
The Lions were worried about Levi? Spare me!
Levi has never been effective, only a grab here or there, or the rare and ever elusive surprise goal.
If he was even semi reliable/effective we would have been a a much better team over the years. He needs to go and never come back. Yes, I am a Casboult hater and I stand by my opinion. He is Timmy Powell level bad, and that's the worst Carlton player I have ever seen.

Plowman I normally stick up for and he did take some good marks tonight, but I can't support a player who continually goes to ground as if he's made such a huge effort and hey, oh-well-they-were-just-too-good-this-time-we'll-get-them-next-time. He is talented but has a heart the size of a pea. If he wants a career as a mediocre player then he doesn't need to change a thing. If he was a serious footballer he would watch games from the 2007 Cats and see what real defensive play is.
It starts with attitude and effort and until he accepts this and makes it synonymous with his gameplay then he will always be a nothing player.

I wasn't intending to have a rant but being at the game tonight just showed me how many players have let such bad habits into their performances that in my day were cardinal sins. How they can think this is acceptable I just don't understand. How do they get paid so much money for doing such a shithouse job? And how can they think that we can't see them being so cowardly and pathetic?

Where is your passion, Carlton?

 

[JohnnyCarlton]

Can someone please explain why our tall forwards never lead? Is it because they don’t trust our mids to hit a target?

 

[Dadda Dave]

Oh, come on now! Haha
The Lions were worried about Levi? Spare me!
Levi has never been effective, only a grab here or there, or the rare and ever elusive surprise goal.
If he was even semi reliable/effective we would have been a a much better team over the years. He needs to go and never come back. Yes, I am a Casboult hater and I stand by my opinion. He is Timmy Powell level bad, and that's the worst Carlton player I have ever seen.

Plowman I normally stick up for and he did take some good marks tonight, but I can't support a player who continually goes to ground as if he's made such a huge effort and hey, oh-well-they-were-just-too-good-this-time-we'll-get-them-next-time. He is talented but has a heart the size of a pea. If he wants a career as a mediocre player then he doesn't need to change a thing. If he was a serious footballer he would watch games from the 2007 Cats and see what real defensive play is.
It starts with attitude and effort and until he accepts this and makes it synonymous with his gameplay then he will always be a nothing player.

I wasn't intending to have a rant but being at the game tonight just showed me how many players have let such bad habits into their performances that in my day were cardinal sins. How they can think this is acceptable I just don't understand. How do they get paid so much money for doing such a shithouse job? And how can they think that we can't see them being so cowardly and pathetic?

Where is your passion, Carlton?

 

[Cripptonite]

Back from the game. Didn’t expect to win but meh, another honourable loss, sort of. I’m numb to it by now it’s all I’ve ever known.

Can’t believe Cunners and Stocker haven’t been able to crack the senior side until now, Cunners was great and thought Stocker built as the game wore on. Hopefully they stay in the team for most of the season.

Walsh and McKay amazing. A few others receive a pass mark. Some others are real passengers. Casboult just kills our momentum every time he goes near the ball. Pittonet is a trier but doesn’t really give us much. Plowman just seems to lose his feet and makes costly mistakes at critical moments. Betts is finished. Love Doc but he needs to be better, he’s just fumbly and error-prone recently where he used to be so consistent and reliable. Fog, Gibbons, Cottrell, Newnes all had off days.

My biggest takeaway is that we are just extremely poor defensively in structure as has been the case in prior weeks. We just get shredded on transition. Zero pressure on the ball carrier and so much space to concede inside 50 marks. We aren’t going anywhere as a football team until that get addressed.

Our players were cooked at the final siren. Not sure about this superior fitness we are getting from employing Russell. Not knocking the guy but for all the hype it doesn’t show on the field in my opinion.

 

[athensblue]

Williams and Saad ok far cry from the Kernahan, Bradley, Motley, Dora et al signings

Cheque book days were so much better

25 yrs of socialism has killed us

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Can someone please explain why our tall forwards never lead? Is it because they don’t trust our mids to hit a target?

Good question to ask Cameron Bruce.

 

[J-dog]

I think that making him the captain might have given him an over-inflated ego. Suddenly, he's the BMOC and everyone should look up to him. Conversely, I think that losing Kreuzer, with him being a 200cm midfielder after the ball hits the ground, might have made Crippa try to fill the hole that Kreuzer used to fill and that's affecting his natural game. There was only one Matthew Kreuzer... there is no replacement for him. Crippa can't fill the hole. So he should get used to having a ruckman who isn't as good as Kreuzer was, and just get on with his game.

If we are talking about a replacement for Cripps, I wouldn't go with Walsh just yet. He needs two more years worth of experience... I'd just make Doc the sole captain and tell Crippa that he's the vice captain.

I agree but no captaincy at all for Cripps in my opinion. I'm glad he is a very focused and driven player but it's gone too far now. If he can prove it's all about the team and his teammates first then he can be acknowledged and rewarded accordingly.
Either Docherty or Weiters for the next 2 years. Then we can see out of Walsh, Harry or Charlie maybe? I dunno. Hard to see the leadership from so few and not worry that if they take the responsibility it may negatively affect their game.

Hate to say it, but Nick Maxwell was a great captain and I wish we had such a reliable player of his character and caliber on the list. I can only think of Weitering who will reliably influence a game more but I don't want to **** things up for him.

 

[Davey33]

Why?? So he can go backwards in his development?

?

 

[j-top]

We’ve got an easier fixture in back end so there’s still some chance for finals this year if we can bring effort for longer and tidy up a few things. Getting a few handy players back should help. Big if’s though.

Just trying to cling to some hope

Officially lost my 9 yr old niece to the Bulldogs last weekend after she went to their game with a bulldogs suppprting friend. Breaks tradition of Carlton supporters in my family since my grandparents came here from Argentina in the early 70’s. My brother is not happy but luckily her 7 yr old brother is sticking fat for now. Been buying them merch every year to help keep them onboard but we are in real
danger of losing both of them if this team can’t show more soon.

I haven’t been brave enough to take my 7 &9 year olds to the footy
Was hoping this would be the year where I could take them and get a win to cement the blues they may have a license before that happens


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[carlton_99]

Can someone please explain why our players slipped over so much today. That completely did my head in.

I was going to ask the same thing. Not sure if its footwear related lol but happened in the Pies game as well

 

[MileHigh]

We are in a lot of trouble.

 

[Koutamightafides]

That's why Kreuzer would have been a good captain for the club... except he would try to be Mr Everything... and then do it.

I think that making him the captain might have given him an over-inflated ego. Suddenly, he's the BMOC and everyone should look up to him. Conversely, I think that losing Kreuzer, with him being a 200cm midfielder after the ball hits the ground, might have made Crippa try to fill the hole that Kreuzer used to fill and that's affecting his natural game. There was only one Matthew Kreuzer... there is no replacement for him. Crippa can't fill the hole. So he should get used to having a ruckman who isn't as good as Kreuzer was, and just get on with his game.

If we are talking about a replacement for Cripps, I wouldn't go with Walsh just yet. He needs two more years worth of experience... I'd just make Doc the sole captain and tell Crippa that he's the vice captain.

Crippa will be vice captain next year . At Freo .

 

[Dramoth]

Williams and Saad ok far cry from the Kernahan, Bradley, Motley, Dora et al signings

Cheque book days were so much better

25 yrs of socialism has killed us

Yeah, the issue is that the equalisation measures implemented by Oakley and Jackson tried to implement and the expansion of the league from the original 12 teams to 18 teams, with the demise of Fitzroy and their forced merger with the Bears, hasn't exactly worked. In fact, I would have to say that it's failed rather spectacularly. It was actually implemented to spread the premierships around. But Brisvegas winning a 3peat... and then Hawthorn winning 4 premierships in 8 years between 2007 and 2015, and Geelong winning 3 premierships in that same 8 years meant that 4 teams won a premiership. Ten years from 2005 to 2015 only increased the number of different teams winning a premiership. In that time, you only add a single team to the premiership winners.

From 2012 with the introduction of the second expansion team, taking the league to 18 teams, 5 teams has won the premiership. Hawthorn with 3 and Richmond with 3. This period also coincides with the new equalisation measure... free agency. Agreed to by the players and the AFL... it's supposed to open up the movement of quality players to teams that are lower down the ladder... but it doesn't seem to have worked like that. The number of top flight players leaving a lower down the ladder club for a club contending for a premiership vastly outweighs the number of players moving in the other direction. And the fact that the clubs down the ladder get compensated with a draft pick is a joke. They are giving up a player who has been in the system for 8 years and is an established player for an 18 year old... unless they can convince someone on the outer at a top 8 club to move to them... and then they have to give up the draft pick they just got. Where is the equalisation in that. And given that the AFL makes up what the compensation for the club losing a player is worth, it's an even bigger rip off for bottom 6-8 level clubs.

What's going to be the next equalisation measure from the AFL... relegation? The premiers of the VFL get promoted to the AFL while the wooden spooners get dropped to the VFL? Unless the team that won the premiership is a reserves side for an AFL level club, and then the first standalone club gets promoted. I wouldn't trust Gill the Dill and SHocking to organise a root in a brothel.

 

[Psychochook]

Good midfields are full of players who are all relatively similar.

Ours is like the old mixed bag of lollies with all the random shite. Black cats, bananas, rock hard redskins and honey bears. All have an attribute or two that can be palatable but nothing like a bag of snakes, strawberries and cream, pineapples and teeth.

Both are still sold as 50cents worth of lolly value but only one bag has that across the board appeal where you don't bother looking in the bag, you just select, knowing you won't be let down.


A bag with mostly 'A' list lollies can carry the odd honey bear etc but guess what?...

...it's always the last selected.

We'd love a couple of those race cars right now.

 

[Koutamightafides]

Yeah, the issue is that the equalisation measures implemented by Oakley and Jackson tried to implement and the expansion of the league from the original 12 teams to 18 teams, with the demise of Fitzroy and their forced merger with the Bears, hasn't exactly worked. In fact, I would have to say that it's failed rather spectacularly. It was actually implemented to spread the premierships around. But Brisvegas winning a 3peat... and then Hawthorn winning 4 premierships in 8 years between 2007 and 2015, and Geelong winning 3 premierships in that same 8 years meant that 4 teams won a premiership. Ten years from 2005 to 2015 only increased the number of different teams winning a premiership. In that time, you only add a single team to the premiership winners.

From 2012 with the introduction of the second expansion team, taking the league to 18 teams, 5 teams has won the premiership. Hawthorn with 3 and Richmond with 3. This period also coincides with the new equalisation measure... free agency. Agreed to by the players and the AFL... it's supposed to open up the movement of quality players to teams that are lower down the ladder... but it doesn't seem to have worked like that. The number of top flight players leaving a lower down the ladder club for a club contending for a premiership vastly outweighs the number of players moving in the other direction. And the fact that the clubs down the ladder get compensated with a draft pick is a joke. They are giving up a player who has been in the system for 8 years and is an established player for an 18 year old... unless they can convince someone on the outer at a top 8 club to move to them... and then they have to give up the draft pick they just got. Where is the equalisation in that. And given that the AFL makes up what the compensation for the club losing a player is worth, it's an even bigger rip off for bottom 6-8 level clubs.

What's going to be the next equalisation measure from the AFL... relegation? The premiers of the VFL get promoted to the AFL while the wooden spooners get dropped to the VFL? Unless the team that won the premiership is a reserves side for an AFL level club, and then the first standalone club gets promoted. I wouldn't trust Gill the Dill and SHocking to organise a root in a brothel.

The relegation thing might not be so bad cause I reckon our reserves would have beaten our seniors today .

 

[Blue1980]

Think we're all getting sucked in here. I reckon Cripps has his manager telling him to keep quiet on the contract til the blues sweeten their deal slightly. Disappointing but it's the way of the modern world. Surely he wants to and will stay. It will get done soonish. Won't be unreasonable $ either.

I’d low ball him at this point

 

[therubbernub]

Anyone who watched the cats slaughter the WCE would realise that our efforts arent that bad. Not ideal of course, but given that we have played 4 of last years finalists and won the other 2 games, its to be expected.

 

[no fate]

I’d low ball him at this point

I'd just hold firm on whatever the offer has been. Assuming it's fair.

 

[no fate]

Good midfields are full of players who are all relatively similar.

Ours is like the old mixed bag of lollies with all the random sh*te. Black cats, bananas, rock hard redskins and honey bears. All have an attribute or two that can be palatable but nothing like a bag of snakes, strawberries and cream, pineapples and teeth.

Both are still sold as 50cents worth of lolly value but only one bag has that across the board appeal where you don't bother looking in the bag, you just select, knowing you won't be let down.


A bag with mostly 'A' list lollies can carry the odd honey bear etc but guess what?...

...it's always the last selected.

We'd love a couple of those race cars right now.

I don't agree, but love the analogies!

 

[Gethelred]

Is there a stat for slipping over??

We are the kings of doing that.

Something's up with the surface at Marvel this year. It's happened both times we've played there, more or less in the same spots.

We're not the only team that's slipping over, either, it just seems to hurt us more.

 

[Blue1980]

Well after going to today’s game, there are so many issues on and off field, it’s really hard to know where to begin.

I think different people reach different tipping points at different times, but this game seemed to break something in me. It’s not that this loss was worse than others, it’s just a culmination of 20 years of rubbish, I guess I truly see where we are as a club now, and it ain’t a cyclical thing.

We clearly don’t have a high performance environment, we seem to destroy everything we touch. Gun people on and off field, highly regarded, come to us and get carltonified.

It’s got to come down to the board and that’s where the tone is set. Too much arrogant “we are Carlton f the rest” permeates through the club.

I see us for what we are now, a terrible club with a terrible culture. Today exemplified it, heat gets turned on for a quarter and we crumble, and then even when we got within 7 points in the third, literally none of our players genuinely believed we could win, and everyone in the stadium knew it.

We’ve had false prophets applenty, we are paying for our last one still, in list management/recruiting “guru” SOS, who has helped build a list which has seen us peak at 11th last year, a position I think we have basically no chance of reaching this season.

Terrible recruiting, recruiting wrong types, being the nice guys of the AFL to play against, there’s a reason we have been the worst side in the AFL for the last 20 years.

The club is a disease, it ends up infecting everyone if they stay long enough. We’ve killed Cripps, Walsh should escape while he can (prob Harry too).

So how do we solve this mess?

Well I have a few ideas:

A) treat all players equally at selection, regardless of experience or draft position.

B) bolster proper assistants for Teague. Tell Barker to F off

C) bolster recruiting networks

D) take what we can get for Cripps, happy to be proven wrong but the way he’s played and how he is currently playing, I think his best footy is behind him.

E) take what we can for SPS, mediocre footballer. Get a WA club to take him before they realise that he won’t improve.

F) hit the draft, we are miles off it. We needed to have a 70-80% hit rate with drafting to be a finals side by now; we are about half that from 2015 till now. It sounds unsexy but we need to keep bringing in high end talent until we get it right.

G) work out wtf the plan is with Russell, why do we all look so small and lose the tackle count every week?

As I said, I fully expect us to lose at least our next 3, maybe win one of the bombers or hawthorn games. The club and the list are a shambles though.

 

[Blue1980]

I'd just hold firm on whatever the offer has been. Assuming it's fair.

Same, though I think me maybe done as a player (constant crash and bash) so maybe get what we can and make out like bandits.

 

[Blue1980]

Anyone who watched the cats slaughter the WCE would realise that our efforts arent that bad. Not ideal of course, but given that we have played 4 of last years finalists and won the other 2 games, its to be expected.

We are a near enough is good enough team. Large percentage of our side is like that, introverted meek types.

 

[alfo]

Can someone please explain why our players slipped over so much today. That completely did my head in.

Has been happening all year! I was at the Collingwood game saying the same thing.
If there was a stat kept of it comp wide, we'd be leading it 100%

 

[SurreyBlue]

Overall this team as a group is playing soulless (great word) footy. It’s obvious the current group either don’t understand what needs to be done to become successful and or aren’t willing or aren’t lead well. Either way, Teague is going to find himself under intense pressure shortly. Continuous failure in the 6th year of a rebuild cycle is not acceptable. If I were Teague I would be looking deep into every corner of my coaching and player group to fix ASAP. Hard call need to be made!

Just on players.......just curious, how did Newnes and Gibbons perform tonight? Anyone? Arr0w maybe?
I also had my doubts but gave him and the club the benefit of doubt, but everything I knew was confirmed tonight, Saad is a terrible trade. No surprises here, but we need a ‘pure’ small forward to replace Betts. Unfortunately, he is done. Makes me but outside of Martin, i’m not sure we have one with the specific skill set. I’m not an Owens fan, so maybe Honey?

Been a long night.