Roos' comments in today's telegraph

[eirinn]

If bringing a premiership to Sydney can't justify my position well I'll accept that, too

Tell me honestly this man is not arrogant.

Has he forgotten he would have been under serious pressure had we gone out in straight sets last year.

I think he's underestimating the intelligence of the average fan. We know there's more to the situation that it seems, but that doesn't excuse public humiliation.

 

[grimlock]

How is that arrogant? You'd think after he coached us to a premiership he'd be entitled to a bit of respect. Its the same structures in place that worked well for us last year that has resulted in Davis's demotion from the team.

 

[RW]

Roos may be arrogant, but he is not an idiot. I suspect his comments in the media are a deliberate ploy to make Davis sweat a little before picking him again, to make him think it's really serious this time. He may be right, he may be wrong, but it's interesting to compare the Roos approach to Akermanis' take on Davisgate here:

I know the situation very well and you definitely get the feeling you are on the outer...in my experience, and it is almost identical, they need to say, 'Look mate, we want you in the team'. Not leave him out there by himself and make him feel like a scapegoat...I've seen the worst side of it and when it gets carried on publicly it really goes against the player and the speculation starts...is he going to stay there? Nine times out of 10 they don't because they feel ostracised and that they are not getting the support from people within.

I tend to agree with Aker on this. BTW, I noticed a couple of posts on this board by a 'Shan Xie'. No relation to 'Xie Shan' who posts on RWO. Nice bloke, he is.

 

[eirinn]

How is that arrogant? You'd think after he coached us to a premiership he'd be entitled to a bit of respect. Its the same structures in place that worked well for us last year that has resulted in Davis's demotion from the team.

By the same reasoning, Davis should never have been dropped. His form last year was fantastic, particularly in the last half of the season.

Roos is arrogant to suggest he ought to be immune from criticism simply because we won the flag last year.

 

[RW]

Bloody Crows fans invading the Swans board.

EDIT: That's better.

(The thread starter originally had their team set to Adelaide.)

 

[grimlock]

You're reading the situation wrong. Obviously Davis was not dropped purely on form, but that was the official line. He talked to the media when he wasn't supposed to, not once but repeatedly. There seems to be more to the story, but they're not revealing it,whether you believe that is right or not. So unless you have the full story you should not criticise Roos or Davis.

From my point of view, all Roos is saying is "trust me, I know what I'm doing. My methods have been validated by the premiership last year." If you want to back an enigmatic, inconsistent yet undoubtedly talented player over a successful coach then that's your right to do so. Note that this isn't the first time Davis's attitude has been called into question either.

 

[Diego]

Paul Roos is doing a fine job dividing the fans into two groups, for and against. Why doesnt he take his own advice and that of the bloods leadership group and STFU!!!

Had it not been for Davo Roosy would be fighting for his job atm. Show some ****en respect for the guy that helped you become a club legend you twat!!!

Seriously why cant Roosy just shut his gob and revert back to his corporate lingo.

 

[ROK of Gibraltar]

Tell me honestly this man is not arrogant.

Has he forgotten he would have been under serious pressure had we gone out in straight sets last year.

I think he's underestimating the intelligence of the average fan. We know there's more to the situation that it seems, but that doesn't excuse public humiliation.

Spot on. This is no longer about the decision, but about the way Roos chose to treat one of the players. His comment says to me that he considers that because he brought Sydney the Premiership he is above criticism. Well, I do not have to agree with his decision to drop Davis but I accept and respect it. I do not have agree with the way he treated Davis and refuse to accept or respect it. He and Kirk have come across very poorly in this affair. Arrogant, uncompromising and lacking in common decency.

 

[Doofy]

Spot on. This is no longer about the decision, but about the way Roos chose to treat one of the players. His comment says to me that he considers that because he brought Sydney the Premiership he is above criticism. Well, I do not have to agree with his decision to drop Davis but I accept and respect it. I do not have agree with the way he treated Davis and refuse to accept or respect it. He and Kirk have come across very poorly in this affair. Arrogant, uncompromising and lacking in common decency.

Much like some posters.

 

[timthefish]

roos also said this. posters should provide links or at least not select in such a biased fashion, or they end up looking like moronic trolls.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,19844711-5006065,00.html

"If bringing a premiership to Sydney can't justify my position well I'll accept that, too. But I can understand the fans' reaction because they don't know the whole story.

"All I can say is there's a lot more to it than what's being reported in the paper.

"I'm happy for the supporters to support Nick, that's fine.

here's some truth for you arrogant w@nkers who think you know everything about football, coaching and the problem with nick davis. you DON'T and you are a bunch of tossers for acting like you do. My feeling is that roos may have been better served by being a bit more quiet about it all but I'm not stupid enough (like many) to assume that i possess anything near enough of the story to judge him completely.

there is a weird kind of narcissism in the behavoir of these arrogant blow-hards on bigfooty and RWO.

 

[Diego]

roos also said this. posters should provide links or at least not select in such a biased fashion, or they end up looking like moronic trolls.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,19844711-5006065,00.html



here's some truth for you arrogant w@nkers who think you know everything about football, coaching and the problem with nick davis. you DON'T and you are a bunch of tossers for acting like you do. My feeling is that roos may have been better served by being a bit more quiet about it all but I'm not stupid enough (like many) to assume that i possess anything near enough of the story to judge him completely.

there is a weird kind of narcissism in the behavoir of these arrogant blow-hards on bigfooty and RWO.

Oh so we should just lap up the crap and the attitude from the "leaders of the club" who play favoritism each week?

I didn't know that some of the players have a huge say in who gets picked each week. Now is that the kind of crap we should put up with? Not picking youngsters but rather picking duds each week? Is that the kind of "bloods" culture we want at sydney? How would you feel if you are 23, was draftyed 4 years ago and can't get a place in the seniors because kirky doesnt know you well. Its pathetic.

Do we want a coach who for 3 seasons speaks jibberish and just goes around in circles like a dog chasing his own tail and then when a player who has been labelled an "outcast" by capitano kirk becasue he likes to do his own rather than hang out with "the boys" comes out to publicly humiliate him?

The swans atm remind me of you know, a school yard. You are either in with "the 12 year boys" or you are picked on. Is that the type of culture we want?

And why can't we be passionate? I hate this whole attitude that we have to be pompous supporters and not dare say anything about the coach and the players. Shove that attitude where the sun don't shine.

 

[TheBloods]

Good old Tim Morrissey!

The whole thing is very strange.

It's not surprising that there is more to it than we see. However, if that is the case I find Davis' comments about being surprised and thinking his form rather strange and I find Roos' initial comments emphasising form and fitness rather misleading.

Furthermore, Davis' comments to the media were hardly that huge. He said he was surprised and thought he was being made a scapegoat. If Roos hadn't made such a big deal of it, it probably would have ended there.

It really seems to have been blown out of proportion.

I am pleased to see Roos finally say something positive though - "I'd love to see Nick back in the side as well and I'd love to see him stay at the club".

What's worse though is the absurd article on sydneyswans.com.au about Bevan.

Kirk: You're the most courageous player ever
Bevan: No you are
Kirk: No you are
Bevan: You

And Bevan says that Saturday night showed we can compete with the top teams. As reigning premiers, aren't we meant to be one of the top teams, not some developing middle-of-the-road team trying to compete with the better ones?

 

[Diego]

Exactly. It's not like Davis came out and really gave it to them, but the way kirk and Roos have acted in the past couple of days it would seem so.

I mean to say "he has lost the confidence of the playing group" is just so pathetic it makes me mad Brett.

**** i would be frustrated as well if Kirk kept ignoring my leads.

 

[Diego]

Good old Tim Morrissey!
And Bevan says that Saturday night showed we can compete with the top teams. As reigning premiers, aren't we meant to be one of the top teams, not some developing middle-of-the-road team trying to compete with the better ones?

He answers questions like he plays, with no friggen idea.

 

[timthefish]

Oh so we should just lap up the crap and the attitude from the "leaders of the club" who play favoritism each week?

I didn't know that some of the players have a huge say in who gets picked each week. Now is that the kind of crap we should put up with? Not picking youngsters but rather picking duds each week? Is that the kind of "bloods" culture we want at sydney? How would you feel if you are 23, was draftyed 4 years ago and can't get a place in the seniors because kirky doesnt know you well. Its pathetic.

Do we want a coach who for 3 seasons speaks jibberish and just goes around in circles like a dog chasing his own tail and then when a player who has been labelled an "outcast" by capitano kirk becasue he likes to do his own rather than hang out with "the boys" comes out to publicly humiliate him?

The swans atm remind me of you know, a school yard. You are either in with "the 12 year boys" or you are picked on. Is that the type of culture we want?

And why can't we be passionate? I hate this whole attitude that we have to be pompous supporters and not dare say anything about the coach and the players. Shove that attitude where the sun don't shine.

I have not ever said that the club, staff or players are above criticism, just that they are not beneath contempt. I have not argued against passion (the most abused word in sport) or people speaking their minds. what i do wish for is for people to look at the scant evidence they have rationally and with a bit of an open mind allowing for the almost certain probability that they don't have all the important information at hand.

do you have any evidence for kirk forcing the selection of his mates? please post them, not more unsubstantiated allegations.

 

[Glenn_]

AFAIK Davis was given a no talking to the media directive, he did talk (and no doubt the quotes taken out of context), and the whole thing snow balls from there.

 

[grayham]

do you have any evidence for kirk forcing the selection of his mates? please post them, not more unsubstantiated allegations.

Roos has said that team selection is done by the "leadership Group".
Kirk is one of the captains and therefore high up in the leadership group.
Hence Kirk has a big say in team selection.
Matthews was picked against WC despite having abismal form all year and especially the week before in the 2's. No logical person would promote him to seniors. Matthews was worse than useless against WC.
QED. Kirk and other players picked a mate.

Thats pretty damning evidence. I cant think of another reason why Matthews (dud) would replace Davis (out of form but still useful).

 

[FixterFan]

Thats pretty damning evidence. I cant think of another reason why Matthews (dud) would replace Davis (out of form but still useful).

Didn't Phillips (who had been playing well in reserves) replace Davis, and Mathews replace Williams?

 

[robbieando]

Roos has said that team selection is done by the "leadership Group".
Kirk is one of the captains and therefore high up in the leadership group.
Hence Kirk has a big say in team selection.
Matthews was picked against WC despite having abismal form all year and especially the week before in the 2's. No logical person would promote him to seniors. Matthews was worse than useless against WC.
QED. Kirk and other players picked a mate.

Thats pretty damning evidence. I cant think of another reason why Matthews (dud) would replace Davis (out of form but still useful).

a) can you please provide a link to said quote and b) Mathews is also part of said leadership group and would have a part in selecting the team too.

Also it does go without saying that in years gone by that Captains and Vice-Captain's of football teams have been part of selection committees of ALL football teams (Don Scott then Vice Captain of Hawthorn played a major role in Peter Crimmins the then Hawthorn Captain not being selected for the 1976 Grand Final) so its not like this is any thing new.

Also in the past two years Sean Dempster, Nick Malceski, Jarrad Moore, Simon Phillips and Luke Vogels all have made their senior AFL debut under the policy and players like Amon Buchanan, Adam Schneider, Lewis Roberts-Thomson, Jarrad McVeigh and Luke Ablett have made their spot in the senior side safe long term.

Also on Nick Davis' form this season he has kicked 18 goals 13 behinds in only 12 matches. So take away his bags of four goals against Hawthorn and Fremantle and that leave 10 goals from his other 10 matches HARDLY the return we should be expecting from a forward who should be averaging 2 to 3 goals a match not bearly 1 a match!!!! Face facts he is hardly one of our form players this year.

 

[Diego]

Also on Nick Davis' form this season he has kicked 18 goals 13 behinds in only 12 matches. So take away his bags of four goals against Hawthorn and Fremantle and that leave 10 goals from his other 10 matches HARDLY the return we should be expecting from a forward who should be averaging 2 to 3 goals a match not bearly 1 a match!!!! Face facts he is hardly one of our form players this year.

He would be kicking more if his leads would be honored. Do you think its a smart idea kicking it to MOL who cant kick straight to help himself or to barry hall who is double teamed while nick is in a perfect position.

Or will you come up with some more spin? It's all relative Robbie and it's much more than just being out of form. Can you not see this?

 

[robbieando]

Didn't Phillips (who had been playing well in reserves) replace Davis, and Mathews replace Williams?

Quite correct. Mathews was fighting for a spot in the side with Spriggs. The rest of our available players were either just coming back from injuries (Malceski and Schmidt), or too raw (Willougby and last year's three draft picks). For Davis' spot it was down to, Phillips who come onto the senior list for Willo or Grundy. We went for speed and the ability to be a goal sneek, looking back maybe Grundy would of been the better option.

Richards came in for the injured Moore too add height to defence, but thanks to injury to Jolly during the match ended up playing ruck for most of the game as a result so not to upset our defence balance or take Goodes and his impact out of the game.

Again a case of people not really looking at the facts closely

 

[Diego]

not really looking at the facts closely

Fact: Kirky doesnt like Nick

Fact: Kirky choose Matthews even though he doesnt deserve a spot in the thirds

Fact: Nick Davis doesn't get the ball passed to him.

 

[robbieando]

He would be kicking more if his leads would be honored. Do you think its a smart idea kicking it to MOL who cant kick straight to help himself or to barry hall who is double teamed while nick is in a perfect position.

Well I will admit that

a) Kicking to Magic anywhere outside 30m is a bad idea, so I don't why we have been doing it for the last two years when all Magic will do is either pass off, miss for a behind or not make goal square.

b) Hall this has been double teamed only at the smaller SCG because Roos is using at FF and not at CHF. Maybe put him back in his normal role where double teaming him would either open up a Swans forward behind him in the hole, the double teaming would stop or Hall works up the ground kicks 2 or 3 goals a match and sets up a further 2 or 3 like he was doing late last year.

c) Davis being ignored might be a factor of thing's - he might he out of range of the person with the ball, he might be in a worse position to have a shot or he might be less than 15m away.

Also consider this, he is not as deadly a shot WHEN he gets the ball this year as he was in 03, 04 or 05. 13 behinds from Nick is poor. Against Adelaide he missed two shots from 40m's that he would normally put though the middle. This year he has been 50/50, where as in the past he has been 80/20 from a set shot. You can't blame not kicking to him on that.

 

[FixterFan]

Also consider this, he is not as deadly a shot WHEN he gets the ball this year as he was in 03, 04 or 05. 13 behinds from Nick is poor. Against Adelaide he missed two shots from 40m's that he would normally put though the middle. This year he has been 50/50, where as in the past he has been 80/20 from a set shot. You can't blame not kicking to him on that.

That's probably an underrated factor (in regards to being ignored on leads). Davis's kicking has been noticeably down this season - even in good positions inside 50, he has missed a few. The other thing is Davis is not as good as MOL at contested marking, or at least bringing the ball the ground. He also seems less creative with his hands inside 50 once the ball hits the deck, and is arguably less effective at chasing in the event that his opponent gets the ball. Those probably contribute to him being "ignored" more.

As a sidenote, from observing Davis this year, he has been very willing to chase his opponent once his opponent has the ball - I've lost count of the number of times I see him run 30m to put pressure from behind onto his opponent, albeit 90% of the time his opponent gets the ball cleanly away. Yet at the same time the question has to be asked: why is he always 20-30m behind his opponent in the first place? Teams seem to play through Davis's man...just as they play through Kirk's man these days (which is why Roos should contemplate dropping one of Kirk or the seriously-out-of-form Bolton for a clearance mid like Schmidt.)

 

[TheBloods]

Also on Nick Davis' form this season he has kicked 18 goals 13 behinds in only 12 matches. So take away his bags of four goals against Hawthorn and Fremantle and that leave 10 goals from his other 10 matches HARDLY the return we should be expecting from a forward who should be averaging 2 to 3 goals a match not bearly 1 a match!!!! Face facts he is hardly one of our form players this year.

He's kicking more goals per game than any other player in the side except Hall.