Autopsy Round 10, 2017: Sydney vs Hawthorn

[The King!]

Amazing.
I expected them to just stand still and we kick 100 goals.

4 goals from free kicks to FKHawks. Two men down. Hawks were superb.

But let's ignore this and just bitch.

Even the most ardent hawks fan would admit that side going into the game was a pile of crap

A few old farts and a bunch of kids, they have a fair few key players out

They are mostly crap this year

But yeah hawks were superb nah we were pathetic for 2 and a half quarters

Head in the sand imo to just accuse people of bitching

If we lost to adelaide or gws etc then fine we fought hard against a better side

We let old man hodge play alone all game

The team was not good enough

 

[MK38]

Being two players down was significant, it was not the only reason we lost but it was a reason. Some other reasons were our poor skills and poor decision making. On a whole we were not good enough but we were not good enough for a variety of reasons. I get a feeling that those same posters that are saying that losing those players had no significant impact on the loss or no impact at all would criticise the team no end if we lost against a team that were two players down for majority of the game.

 

[Punts]

Jones might get a week

Rohan fined maybe

 

[Banyo Bloods]

Jones might get a week

Rohan fined maybe

MRP I think will go with insufficient force. Quite different to the punches the media have cried foul on. MRP will probably take the hyperbole out of it

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

MRP I think will go with insufficient force. Quite different to the punches the media have cried foul on. MRP will probably take the hyperbole out of it

Nah I doubt it. Jones threw a cut lunch and he'll get at least a week. He'll have to.

 

[The King!]

spot on

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/don...s/news-story/d9408de774775883b60d0e3b4fac39c5

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

spot on

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/don...s/news-story/d9408de774775883b60d0e3b4fac39c5

No it's not. That show on SEN is completely absent of any worthwhile insight. Tim Watson especially but Garry Lyon also. They're only about manufacturing talking points for the other shows to yack about and create outrage about for the rest of the day.

And what Lyon was saying entirely missed the point. The Swans weren't "on" in the first half. We were in the second. Unfortunately, we were 2 men down in the second half so ran out of legs. It's that simple. I've heard Lyon go on about Cotchin racking up cheap useless stats before which was precisely what Hawthorn were doing. Keepings off works if players aren't mounting pressure. As soon as players mount pressure, it falls apart. There is no way in the world that Longmire wasn't telling them to mount pressure.

 

[The King!]

No it's not. That show on SEN is completely absent of any worthwhile insight. Tim Watson especially but Garry Lyon also. They're only about manufacturing talking points for the other shows to yack about and create outrage about for the rest of the day.

And what Lyon was saying entirely missed the point. The Swans weren't "on" in the first half. We were in the second. Unfortunately, we were 2 men down in the second half so ran out of legs. It's that simple. I've heard Lyon go on about Cotchin racking up cheap useless stats before which was precisely what Hawthorn were doing. Keepings off works if players aren't mounting pressure. As soon as players mount pressure, it falls apart. There is no way in the world that Longmire wasn't telling them to mount pressure.

They played the game, must have some idea though? isnt that the argument when we question Horse? he knows the game

we were pathetic on the weekend, deserve to cop flak for the season thus far

 

[scaryness]

Would be interested to know what the Hawks uncontested marks stats were before and after half time.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

They played the game, must have some idea though? isnt that the argument when we question Horse? he knows the game

we were pathetic on the weekend, deserve to cop flak for the season thus far

They may have some idea, but they don't demonstrate it with this radio show. Tim Watson especially. I'm always dumber for having listened to them.The problem is the alternatives are FM radio or some frigging Bolshevik on the ABC.

 

[Banyo Bloods]

Nah I doubt it. Jones threw a cut lunch and he'll get at least a week. He'll have to.

Throwing a "cut lunch" or anything that has an effect on the other player is where they will judge their force I would think. New interpretation would see Cunnington go for his punch or Franklin for his jumper hit on Robertson but the Jones little whacks that have zero effect will get let go.

Think it will come down to them not wanting to be pushed into decisions from media hype.

However they would certainly be feeling the pressure to out him and it was a stupid thing to do (twice) so if he goes it's his own fault on that.

You may be right but I'm guessing he will get a fine.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Throwing a "cut lunch" or anything that has an effect on the other player is where they will judge their force I would think. New interpretation would see Cunnington go for his punch or Franklin for his jumper hit on Robertson but the Jones little whacks that have zero effect will get let go.

Think it will come down to them not wanting to be pushed into decisions from media hype.

However they would certainly be feeling the pressure to out him and it was a stupid thing to do (twice) so if he goes it's his own fault on that.

You may be right but I'm guessing he will get a fine.

No, perhaps you're right. The only worrying one is the cheap one in the pack but that might have just got him in the shoulder. But of all the weeks to start throwing them!!

 

[Tuco]

Amazing.
I expected them to just stand still and we kick 100 goals.

4 goals from free kicks to FKHawks. Two men down. Hawks were superb.

But let's ignore this and just bitch.

There's no denying both teams had great endeavour.

Superb is a bit generous, though. Hawks weren't great.

Pretty much most teams would've towelled them up.

All those effective uncontested possessions lifted them up to 78% DE, but if you see past that it was actually clanger city.

A lot of their short passes flew over basic targets like something from a semi professional league.

We were down at 60% for 2/3rds of the game which is diabolical.

Execution by both sides was sub par. We were worse. End of story.

Made for a close game, though.

 

[Banyo Bloods]

No, perhaps you're right. The only worrying one is the cheap one in the pack but that might have just got him in the shoulder. But of all the weeks to start throwing them!!

Head shake stuff

 

[Olian]

spot on

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/don...s/news-story/d9408de774775883b60d0e3b4fac39c5

Gary Lyon providing coaching tips. This is the same bloke who appointed Mark Neeld as a senior coach.
Longmire was beaten by Clarkson again. Swans were poor in the first half and playing catch up with two down is never easy.
We need to move to Etihad as that's where we play decent footy.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

They played the game, must have some idea though? isnt that the argument when we question Horse? he knows the game

we were pathetic on the weekend, deserve to cop flak for the season thus far

I'll give you another example. He's carrying on at the moment as though we picked Sinclair in preference to Nankervis. We didn't. We traded in Sinclair to replace Pyke (and Derickxz). Darcy Cameron is the Nankervis replacement.

Nankervis didn't want to be drafted by Sydney and didn't want to stay in Sydney. Anyone with inside knowledge knows that. We couldn't keep him. We wanted to, but we couldn't. Yet Garry Lyon has a great rant about our trading based on a Sinclair/Nankervis comparison as though they are one and the same trade. They're not.

 

[S120]

Our recruitment and performance (this year and in big games/close games over the last few years) are definitely deserving of scrutiny and critique. But Lyon is coming off like a half-baked shock jock trying to get make a big statement to be different or get attention. Sam Reid has been a very frustrating player with his injuries and form inconsistencies but he's pretty bloody good this year overall, given how much he's been thrown around the ground. To say he's a $200k-$300k player is just silly. If he had watched Reid play this year consistently he'd know that.

Seems like since Lyon has returned from his absence from football he's decided that when he feels something he's gonna feel it and not give a f***. Which is fine and if that makes him feel better within himself then cool, but that doesn't lend itself to making reasonable and considered judgements in his role every time.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Our recruitment and performance (this year and in big games/close games over the last few years) are definitely deserving of scrutiny and critique. But Lyon is coming off like a half-baked shock jock trying to get make a big statement to be different or get attention. Sam Reid has been a very frustrating player with his injuries and form inconsistencies but he's pretty bloody good this year overall, given how much he's been thrown around the ground. To say he's a $200k-$300k player is just silly. If he had watched Reid play this year consistently he'd know that.

Seems like since Lyon has returned from his absence from football he's decided that when he feels something he's gonna feel it and not give a f***. Which is fine and if that makes him feel better within himself then cool, but that doesn't lend itself to making reasonable and considered judgements in his role every time.

Exactly and of course they are. But Sinclair was about trying to get value for Jetta and what we needed was a depth ruckman. Neither Naismith nor Nankervis had at that point made an impression and Naismith was horribly injury prone. Everyone agreed we needed another ruckman on the list. It's just a stupid and unresearched argument.

And to bag Sam Reid off one poor half when we didn't have the ball in our hands......good grief.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

They may have some idea, but they don't demonstrate it with this radio show. Tim Watson especially. I'm always dumber for having listened to them.The problem is the alternatives are FM radio or some frigging Bolshevik on the ABC.

Whether or not the ABC is a nest of Bolsheviks they certainly haven't encroached on their AFL coverage which I find much better than any of the alternatives.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The Hawks came to play

And why didn't our boys? They get paid, don't they?

 

[Tuco]

Our recruitment and performance (this year and in big games/close games over the last few years) are definitely deserving of scrutiny and critique. But Lyon is coming off like a half-baked shock jock trying to get make a big statement to be different or get attention. Sam Reid has been a very frustrating player with his injuries and form inconsistencies but he's pretty bloody good this year overall, given how much he's been thrown around the ground. To say he's a $200k-$300k player is just silly. If he had watched Reid play this year consistently he'd know that.

Seems like since Lyon has returned from his absence from football he's decided that when he feels something he's gonna feel it and not give a f***. Which is fine and if that makes him feel better within himself then cool, but that doesn't lend itself to making reasonable and considered judgements in his role every time.

Lyon probably just compared the supercoach scores of Nankervis and Naismith and decided we erred letting Nankervis go.

And to suggest Reid is worth $200k is pretty laughable.

 

[bungwahl]

Just watching some of the game on replay, and the Hawks tactics were superb. Nearly every time the Swans scored or looked to build momentum the Hawks would go the push and shove, pulling Swans players away from the football and generally distracting and irritating them. Then back to tempo footy and controlling the ball. Next time the Swans score, same thing - push and shove. It was brilliant.

 

[BloodySwan]

spot on

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/don...s/news-story/d9408de774775883b60d0e3b4fac39c5

While he was right in that the score flattered us he's wrong in his analysis. Buddy was what kept us in the game in the first half and our poor movement was what cost us. Their uncontested possessions was actually when we were switched on. We let them run across the back a number of times looking for space forward but blocked their movement.

But he's still right, we were lucky on Friday night. Our first half we were sorely outmaneuvered

 

[Wolftone]

If you look at the Collingwood, Power and Carlton matches there is a very obvious trend happening in their game styles against us. They are kicking to position to lots of free players to break our zone. A zone we should not be playing because it will be the end of us and is being the end of us. Hawthorn played the same way exactly. They were allowed to do this all day with Swans players giving them heaps of space. The zone we set up no longer works because the opposition coaches are all a wake up to it. I could tell last year that the opposition coaches were starting to work out our zoning off and to exploit it. In the Grand Final in parts dogs did this. But up until Power and then Pies it wasn't obvious.

Of course we put the losses down to too many injuries and playing young players. I was never that confident that was the case. In fact I bemoaned our lack of pressure on the defending team as they brought the ball out of defence. Sure our experienced players were not playing well. Sure we had a lot of inexperienced players. The fact is most of our experienced players are playing more than ok now. But the problem still persists and it isn't one of lack of motivation on the part of the players or lack of form. It is about a lack of coaching awareness and the inability of our coaching staff to change things in the heat of battle. Players will play to whatever game plan or the coaching staff organise. If told to play man on man they will. If told to play the zone they will. Our coaching staff did not change tack at all last week and we lost the same as we did against Power. Pies and Blues. They didn't change then either. You'd think that if something is not working then you'd change it. But Longmire and his staff seem to be unable to do so.

If this doesn't change soon we are going to be literally bottom. There are some major flaws in our game and the inability to counter the slow kicking to position game where they spread to one side and the back the other way is astounding. There have been so many free players in all four games for the opposition that I thought they must have had more players on the field. But no...It is our inability to keep track of their players while playing our zone that is the problem. This leaves all our players on one side with three to four free opposition players on the other sidee of the ground. It made me feel sick to see this happening again on Friday night. I knew then that we were in deep @@@@. That our coaches had no @@@@ing idea at all and it is time for a rethink on Longmire and his team. Everyone of them. I am not saying this because I have any significant loathing for Longmire of the other coaches. It is because even if we were winning games last season the effort to do so was astounding and I was worried our game plan would not stand up on that last day in September. As it turned out it didn't, with some extenuating circumstances. But the reality is we couldn't contain their spread out of defence. This has transferred into this year and it is far worse than before because everybody knows what we do and they counter it immediately then catch us out. GWS & Dogs did it to a lesser degree too. Every team, except Saints, know how to counter us. So we won three. Lions you can say just don't have the cattle. We did well against Norf but their coaches still haven't wotrked out how to beat our zone same as Saints. The rest we have played certainly have. But it was so noticeable against Pies, Power, Blues & Hawks. The Hawks came into the game with virtually a reserves team and still beat us. Talk about Longmire losing the unlosable.

I think it is time to look at a new coach. We will never win another premiership with coaches that simply can'y change things up at a minutes notice. We need onfield leadership who can see what's happening and take the initiative to change things on the field. Hodge for Hawks does it all the time. Murphy for Dogs. Our structures are far too rigid. We need to get flexibility back into the game plan. If we keep playing this sort of footy I am simply going to turn off and go and watch the reserves, who are playing great footy. They are not playing the same as the Seniors either by the way. they have different personnel and are playing accordingly. Shaw has them believing and playing great footy. A very tough, smart, skillful game of footy. If the senior coaches took some of the stuff the dew kickers are doing to senior level we could just win a few games. Mind you Shaw is developing their one on one game and the boys are tough, uncompromising and tight. Can't say that about the seniors. Bomb the ball into Bud or Tip, lose ball and get slaughtered on the way back or get a point and play a zone that allows their players 10 metres. Then get lost on the spread. Reserves don't allow that to happen. Game and player awareness are a great thing and maybe many of our older players just don't have it. But I think it is just a flawed zone. A zone that allows the opposition to lose their players on the way back. Too many of our players overlap and soon they don't know who their opponents are or where they are. Simple really.

 

[Wolftone]

Zone defence and defending space just irritates me no end.....pressuring Hawthorn was the answer, accountable football for at least some of the game might of helped..man up, I dont think we had the gas to do it at any stage. Countless times they just waltzed up field...and Horse did nothing.

I agree unaccountable coaching. We will be bottom as soon as Norf, Lions & Saints realise how you beat our stupid zone. I always hated this ****ing zone.