Autopsy Round 11, 2023: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

[Sun Ra]

In terms of the presser and some commentary about Lyon seeming to be too relaxed and joking about the performance.
Maybe, just maybe what he's been saying about this year being a year of exploration is actually what it is and he doesn't
really give a rats (no pun intended) about wins/losses that much this year ? Sure, you'd prefer to win games but he
probably knew we weren't going to be winning IT this year and has a 4 year deal, so there is no hurry. Be patient maybe ?

 

[malevu]

I was hoping the blonde highlights in his hair this year might be the making of him.

Those wondering why he's become a lock in the team ahead of guys like Windy and Bytel only need to look at the stats last week. Byrnes covered the most kms in the whole comp last week. Clearly Lyon favors runners. The fact you might not have a great deal else going for you doesn't seem to matter much.

 

[malevu]

Just in case anyone has missed it.... Owens is already our best and most important player. That includes Max who is dependent on others to at least get the ball to him to give him a fair crack. No knock on him, just the position he plays. Owens makes his own luck and is the complete footballer lacking nothing, only more experience.

17 games and still only 19 years old. Probably our best young star from the get go since Banga. Maybe equal with Rooey.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Those wondering why he's become a lock in the team ahead of guys like Windy and Bytel only need to look at the stats last week. Byrnes covered the most kms in the whole comp last week.

Where did you get that stat from? In the “tracker” in match centre for our game on the AFL website he wasn’t in the top 5 for distance covered in the game, and actually hasn’t been top 5 in any game since we played Collingwood in R5. Where he was 4th.

In fact according to the AFL website he’s only been in the top 5 for total distance covered twice from the 11 games.

That Pies game and the freakish one against Essendon where he covered 17.8km. Interestingly in that game all of the top 5 covered at least 16.3km, which I think would be exceedingly unusual.

 

[Plugger35]

In terms of the presser and some commentary about Lyon seeming to be too relaxed and joking about the performance.
Maybe, just maybe what he's been saying about this year being a year of exploration is actually what it is and he doesn't
really give a rats (no pun intended) about wins/losses that much this year ? Sure, you'd prefer to win games but he
probably knew we weren't going to be winning IT this year and has a 4 year deal, so there is no hurry. Be patient maybe ?

That's a cop out.

It may have been a year of exploration initially but we are in the Top 8, we may not be good enough to win it but we should be aiming to play finals.

The Hawks played like a team that were pushing to play finals and we played like a team that were just happy to turn up and just tank for draft picks.

I've had enough of exploration in the bottom half of the ladder during the Richo and Ratten years, I want us to play finals again and be a contender.

If this year really is about exploration then why are we pushing Steele back out there when he isn't fully fit and not giving Bytel or Windhager a go.

 

[Plugger35]

Did Macrae rock up in his first year of coaching Collingwood and say "hey guys this is just going to be a year of exploration and forget about finals".

Like hell he did, he came up with a game plan and a mentality that had Collingwood ,who were tipped for bottom 4 last year, playing in a prelim final.

Now they are looking like flag favourites.

Do they have more talent on their list than us?, I don't think so. Do they have a better game plan and mentality with better coaching than us,? For sure.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Did Macrae rock up in his first year of coaching Collingwood and say "hey guys this is just going to be a year of exploration and forget about finals".

Like hell he did, he came up with a game plan and a mentality that had Collingwood ,who were tipped for bottom 4 last year, playing in a prelim final.

Now they are looking like flag favourites.

Do they have more talent on their list than us?, I don't think so. Do they have a better game plan and mentality with better coaching than us,? For sure.

They have way more talent than us atm, and last year

 

[Jade Buddha]

Few players under the pump.
Steele - Captain isn’t travelling too well. Pretty sure he’s not a natural for the role.
Byrnes probably got the nod with all the injuries early. Now is a little suspect.
Hammer, very enthusiastic but starting to be worked out.

 

[Jade Buddha]

If our injury list was a little shorter we’d have some solutions.
Caminiti out for Hayes
Byrnes out for Dmac

 

[gubby88]

Did Macrae rock up in his first year of coaching Collingwood and say "hey guys this is just going to be a year of exploration and forget about finals".

Like hell he did, he came up with a game plan and a mentality that had Collingwood ,who were tipped for bottom 4 last year, playing in a prelim final.

Now they are looking like flag favourites.

Do they have more talent on their list than us?, I don't think so. Do they have a better game plan and mentality with better coaching than us,? For sure.

They also just played a granny a couple of years prior....with a majority of that team..

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[pebblesofsand]

Not sure what you blokes are carrying on about. At the bye - safely positioned in 5th with a healthy %.

A bit of a rest and reset then its an easier draw in the second half of the season.

Glad I took my holiday now because September will see the Saints playing finals.

 

[jwint43]

Got smashed in the middle, Hawks midfield is super underrated but we were destroyed. Marshall is starting to concern me from a centre bounce perspective. We could have won but didn't deserve too, Hawks were the better side and we probably should have been 5-6 goals down at half time.

Luckily Melbourne, Dogs and Geelong all got done this weekend too so it's not as bad a loss as it could have been.

Thought Ryan Byrnes

13

Ryan Byrnes

Age

23

Ht

181cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

had a good last quarter and if we had won would have been a positive, he was working his ass off.

Owens might already be our most important player. Caminiti seems unsure of himself now that King is back, a little concerning. I am still extremely optimistic as we have to remember we have Owens Pou NAS as kids all contributing weekly to the side and getting games on merit, with Windhager hopefully to join next game.

 

[jwint43]

It's interesting actually to look closer at Steele's clearances (not centre clearances) per game by year

2017: 3.85
2018: 3.43
2019: 4.20
2020: 5.00
2021: 6.27
2022: 5.17
2023: 4.75

Not a huge difference but again that accords with the eye test that this year he's back to pre 2020/AA form.

I noticed tonight that at just about every centre bounce he went to ground really quickly, which frequently ended with him out of the play while the Hawks got a couple of quick scrappy handballs then ran it out.

He's playing sore, hopefully the bye will do him a world of good. He used to be so durable but his style of play was going to catch up with him eventually.

 

[MUFKilda]

What the hell happened? I didn't expect to lose this one, particularly in that manner. Did we just run out of gas at the end?

 

[joydivision22]

"So because I am crazy I just rewatched every centre bounce in the game that Seb Ross was part of. Theres this concept in football of designated attackers and defenders in a contest. A1, A2 etc... the point of that is to have designated attackers of the ball in contests so that you dont get 3+ mids piling on the ball and losing easy possession if the opposition gets a handball to an outside player.
The ball in almost every bounce is tapped away from Ross, this means that his role is to not contest the ball now but to "roam" and check his opponent.

The couple of times it actually comes his way he himself makes the clearance and one other time he fumbles a hot handpass. There was only two times I saw his direct opponent who was much faster come off him, one was a run through clearance and the other simply become part of the next stoppage.

I didnt watch all the general play he was in as thats near impossible and im not claiming he had a genuinely good game with only 12 disposals but he was very far from being a liability as you claim and I question how closely you paid attention to what was going on considering you said he had zero centre influence when he irrefutably had two clean clearances personally."

Nutsngum interested to hear what you make of all this now mate?

 

[crasha301]

A few weeks at Sandy playing just midfield, getting his hands on the ball, being at the bottom of packs etc wouldn't do him any harm.

Can't have our players learning a craft in the 2s! Geez it'll ruin them.

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[dudeintheswamp]

Gonna send you back to wherever
The hell it was you came
Then I'm gonna get this tattoo
Changed to another girl's name

 

[dudeintheswamp]

As you said there's always next year. Just need to do this just need to do that

Been saying it 57 years hahaha

Boomer?

 

[PoppedCorn]

Shouldve got pantsed by more
Very ordinary
Crouch stays
Capt is injuried
Seb i dunno tbh, wtf? Vfl i think
Roma can he actually jump?
Wheres the next paddy coming from because we need one who can actually ruck
Hayes wouldn't of let sicily do that today, he plays with pure heart and effort and needs to be in at chf when fit
Windy in, i dont care about something to work on, if the years exploratory put him in and ****ing explore then!

We have been saying it for years, the midfield is slow and one dimensional
A1 and A2 lol how about get the ball??
Gresh selfish
Higgs brain fader
Simple things to work on yet they never seem to have worked on
Wtf was that by gresh out the middle, just panic and bomb.
He couldve dodged traffic or dished off but chose the last worst option which was a hack kick.
Ive said for a year to let him go and get the pick.
We shouldnt neeed him to go in the middle ffs
Remember that game against geelong a few years ago, absolutely danced around them in the fwd pocket snapping from everywhere.
Thought we had a ten year pocket sewn up, but apparently he is a mid as well.
Nope

I want to see some serious changes after the bye
That would be exploratory

 

[Saintbloke]

I thought the body language of the team looked off yesterday- the enthusiasm of the Hawks was a stark contrast to us, and I thought we played like selfish individuals, not a team. The defensive game of the midfield and forwards was terrible and put our backline under too much pressure, but the backs did OK under a lot of pressure.
I was trying to figure out who might have been our best player over four quarters..maybe Battle, but the lack of effectiveness of Steele, Crouch and Ross stuck out like a sore thumb, and the lack of ball extraction didn't give outside runners like Byrnes, Wood and Hill much chance.. Hill's tackling efforts were woeful.
Lyon has been outsmarted in recent weeks and needs to put his thinking cap on- our stoppage work is very poor. Probably just a coincidence, but the sudden and unexpected resignation of performance fitness coach, Nick Walsh in early May, seems to tie in with us looking a lot less nippy over the ground in the last four weeks or so, but anyway..
Time to rejig the midfield for the next game me thinks.

 

[bergholt]

Pressure acts from yesterday

29: Phillipou
28:
27: Hill
26: Butler
25: Caminiti, Sinclair
24: Ross
23:
22:
21: Crouch, Steele
20: Paton
19: Gresham, Wood
18:
17:
16:
15: Marshall
14: Battle, Wanganeen-Milera
13:
12: Stocker
11:
10:
9: Higgins, Wilkie
8: King
7:
6: Webster
5: Sharman
4:
3: Howard

I don't usually look at these stats - is Higgins always so far down the list? And is Caminiti always so high up?

 

[cartwright]

What the hell happened? I didn't expect to lose this one, particularly in that manner. Did we just run out of gas at the end?

No, we were terrible from the start. Didn’t work hard or smart and were lucky to not lose by 5 goals.

 

[Desperate saint]

Big reality check that was. Extremely concerned with how we’ve played the last 5 or so weeks and unfortunately doesn’t look much worse than the Richo/Ratts days on field.

Terrible skills, easy to score against, poor decision making, same players making the same mistakes.

Was loving life under Ross a month ago but I’m concerned with how stubborn he is and how little things have changed when things aren’t going our way.

Midfield needs a change and and Seb Ross just has to be dropped for the next game IMO.

NAS and King the only positives from tonight.

Very upset.

Yep Midfield terrible-slow with slow up and under kicks into the fwd line-Steele must be injured-will never win anything at the end of the year with that midfied -if it a year of exploration lets start exploring-I did witness one of the great individual games from Sicily-what a player and what a captain

 

[Desperate saint]

Yes overall we have done well with our draft selections in the last couple of drafts, BUT we have still not taken a high draft pick who was a pure mid.

You can see the Poo will be very good for us, but will he be a midfield beast? Owens looks like being a freak for us, but again may not be a midfield best.

Our pure mids have all been later picks like Windy or even Bytel. Though we did get Crouch as a free agent. He is not an elite mid though.

The midfield is the engine rooms of all teams, and ours is not a V8.

a spluttering 4

 

[Ads734]

Got smashed in the middle, Hawks midfield is super underrated but we were destroyed. Marshall is starting to concern me from a centre bounce perspective. We could have won but didn't deserve too, Hawks were the better side and we probably should have been 5-6 goals down at half time.

Luckily Melbourne, Dogs and Geelong all got done this weekend too so it's not as bad a loss as it could have been.

Thought Ryan Byrnes had a good last quarter and if we had won would have been a positive, he was working his ass off.

Owens might already be our most important player. Caminiti seems unsure of himself now that King is back, a little concerning. I am still extremely optimistic as we have to remember we have Owens Pou NAS as kids all contributing weekly to the side and getting games on merit, with Windhager hopefully to join next game.

Funny we won the centre clearances and the overall clearances.