Autopsy Round 11, 2023: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

[Ads734]

Pressure acts from yesterday

29: Phillipou
28:
27: Hill
26: Butler
25: Caminiti, Sinclair
24: Ross
23:
22:
21: Crouch, Steele
20: Paton
19: Gresham, Wood
18:
17:
16:
15: Marshall
14: Battle, Wanganeen-Milera
13:
12: Stocker
11:
10:
9: Higgins, Wilkie
8: King
7:
6: Webster
5: Sharman
4:
3: Howard

I don't usually look at these stats - is Higgins always so far down the list? And is Caminiti always so high up?

Why Phillapou keeps getting games.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

This club has transformed itself in the span of a month of footy.

Couldn't be more proud.

Laughing at the pro Lyon crowd now looking back. Vindication after 2 rounds. We are rubbish.

 

[gringo2011]

Where did you get that stat from? In the “tracker” in match centre for our game on the AFL website he wasn’t in the top 5 for distance covered in the game, and actually hasn’t been top 5 in any game since we played Collingwood in R5. Where he was 4th.

In fact according to the AFL website he’s only been in the top 5 for total distance covered twice from the 11 games.

That Pies game and the freakish one against Essendon where he covered 17.8km. Interestingly in that game all of the top 5 covered at least 16.3km, which I think would be exceedingly unusual.

At the ground he looks obviously our most mobile player, he covers a lot of ground at top speed.

With a bit of time to calm down. We were arrogant carrying Jack Steele on one leg and already 5% off since his shoulder. We then lost Hunter Clark which took another rotation out. Crouch looked good and covered heaps of ground at top speed and his stats didn't look as good as his work rate.

Even Seb Ross had his best game in weeks but realistically we had Sinclair and Crouch inside (Gresham was playing some midfield too) which left a hole behind them and the good inside players from the Hawks had a pretty easy time holding our guys back while helping themselves to a pretty easily won feast.

We carry very few midfielders in reserve, I can't think of any other side that has such a thin on-ball brigade and it's been that way for years.

That's why I want guys like Dow, Mathieson or Matt Crouch, even if they don't play every week, it gives you a ready to go depth that doesn't derail your season. After a good 2020 we lost mids and fell away in 2021, 2022 the same thing happened Steele, Jones and Gresham went down and our positive start dropped away and we never recovered.

It's happening again at the moment and unless Windhager or Bytel can step up we could be repeating the same shit.

 

[Ricmel]

17 games and still only 19 years old. Probably our best young star from the get go since Banga. Maybe equal with Rooey.

He's better than that. I have him as a lock in the next AFL team of the century. Likely to be first player inducted in to Legends whilst still playing but I really want to see him play 25 games before being definitive on that statement.

 

[saintmike65]

Deserved to lose. Outplayed most of the day.

Yet we found ourselves in a position we should win from.

Higgins drops a mark, busy thinking about running in and kicking it into the 3rd tier.

Mark it. Take your 30. Kick the goal. Seal it.

Lots of mistakes today. Midfield were disturbingly quiet and did no damage. What impact did Steele, Crouch and Ross have?

Some soul searching needed over the bye - today was crushing.

There lies the problem..Steele, Crouch & Ross as a collective don’t inspire much confidence!

 

[gringo2011]

They have way more talent than us atm, and last year

Yeah, they aren't a Ferrari but they are a V8 Commodore with a good driver at the wheel. We look like a Kia Carnival in comparison, even throwing Winterbottom behind the wheel won't make it win Bathurst. We look like we are a few players short and a bit of development off being a serious side.

 

[Ricmel]

After a good 2020 we lost mids and fell away in 2021, 2022 the same thing happened Steele, Jones and Gresham went down and our positive start dropped away and we never recovered.

It's happening again at the moment and unless Windhager or Bytel can step up we could be repeating the same s**t.

I watched the game with a few mates and we could not work out what has happened in the last 5 weeks. First 5 rounds we looked like a really quick team, moved the ball at speed from back half to front half as well as any team in the comp. 6 weeks later we look ponderous and slow. Sure teams have worked us out to an extent but yesterday the Hawks gave us plenty of room at times and still we looked more like Carlton than Collingwood.

There have been a few personnel changes - notably King and Steele - but you would think that would improve us. The only thing we could really pinpoint was that Hill and Wood have dropped off a bit, Gresham's field kicking is so appallingly horrible that it slows the whole game down and Dougal Howard has lost all confidence and doesn't seem to know where he is let alone his opponent.

 

[Mowman]

"So because I am crazy I just rewatched every centre bounce in the game that Seb Ross was part of. Theres this concept in football of designated attackers and defenders in a contest. A1, A2 etc... the point of that is to have designated attackers of the ball in contests so that you dont get 3+ mids piling on the ball and losing easy possession if the opposition gets a handball to an outside player.
The ball in almost every bounce is tapped away from Ross, this means that his role is to not contest the ball now but to "roam" and check his opponent.

The couple of times it actually comes his way he himself makes the clearance and one other time he fumbles a hot handpass. There was only two times I saw his direct opponent who was much faster come off him, one was a run through clearance and the other simply become part of the next stoppage.

I didnt watch all the general play he was in as thats near impossible and im not claiming he had a genuinely good game with only 12 disposals but he was very far from being a liability as you claim and I question how closely you paid attention to what was going on considering you said he had zero centre influence when he irrefutably had two clean clearances personally."

Nutsngum interested to hear what you make of all this now mate?

Go and watch the replay and watch his dumb bombs into our 50 straight to the Hawks

He was horrible yesterday watch him off the ball watch his chasing at half pace

He is a senior player that has offered nothing for weeks now . He had 3 Touches the 1st halve yesterday move him on we are going no where with him

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure what you blokes are carrying on about. At the bye - safely positioned in 5th with a healthy %.

A bit of a rest and reset then its an easier draw in the second half of the season.

Glad I took my holiday now because September will see the Saints playing finals.

We probably will but that shit does nothing to answer some of the questions that the last month has thrown up. Last year was so frustrating because it looked like we were finally starting to bear fruit, instead the vine shrivelled. It looks very similar to last year at this stage. If Lyon can't turn this lot around there might not be much more we can do and are up for another long range forecast for when the crops start to pay off.

 

[gringo2011]

I watched the game with a few mates and we could not work out what has happened in the last 5 weeks. First 5 rounds we looked like a really quick team, moved the ball at speed from back half to front half as well as any team in the comp. 6 weeks later we look ponderous and slow. Sure teams have worked us out to an extent but yesterday the Hawks gave us plenty of room at times and still we looked more like Carlton than Collingwood.

There have been a few personnel changes - notably King and Steele - but you would think that would improve us. The only thing we could really pinpoint was that Hill and Wood have dropped off a bit, Gresham's field kicking is so appallingly horrible that it slows the whole game down and Dougal Howard has lost all confidence and doesn't seem to know where he is let alone his opponent.

A lot of it is the effort to man up and defensive structures. Hawks did to us what we did to others early as did Adelaide. While others copied us we seem to have walked away from it.

I was talking to my Richmond mate after the GWS game and he was saying that he thinks Lyon has stopped playing to strangle and trying to play a more open attacking style. The lockdown is great for snatching wins in home and away matches and you could do what Sydney did and probably get to a GF like that but at some point you have to have 2 modes.

Geelong had a system that won home and away games through keepings off but it fell over every year in finals. Changed to a more fast moving attacking style and won a flag. Richmond played every game like it was finals with the tempo going at 100% and it burnt-off pretenders and set them up to be a fit, hard well-drilled unit.

I think we have the balance wrong at the moment. We need to switch in game and I guess it's all learning at the moment but bloody hard to watch.

 

[Mowman]

"So because I am crazy I just rewatched every centre bounce in the game that Seb Ross was part of. Theres this concept in football of designated attackers and defenders in a contest. A1, A2 etc... the point of that is to have designated attackers of the ball in contests so that you dont get 3+ mids piling on the ball and losing easy possession if the opposition gets a handball to an outside player.
The ball in almost every bounce is tapped away from Ross, this means that his role is to not contest the ball now but to "roam" and check his opponent.

The couple of times it actually comes his way he himself makes the clearance and one other time he fumbles a hot handpass. There was only two times I saw his direct opponent who was much faster come off him, one was a run through clearance and the other simply become part of the next stoppage.

I didnt watch all the general play he was in as thats near impossible and im not claiming he had a genuinely good game with only 12 disposals but he was very far from being a liability as you claim and I question how closely you paid attention to what was going on considering you said he had zero centre influence when he irrefutably had two clean clearances personally."

Nutsngum interested to hear what you make of all this now mate?

No he attended 16 centre bounces had zero clearances

 

[Diehard Saint]

What the hell happened? I didn't expect to lose this one, particularly in that manner. Did we just run out of gas at the end?

No, we started with no gas.

 

[gringo2011]

Shouldve got pantsed by more
Very ordinary
Crouch stays
Capt is injuried
Seb i dunno tbh, wtf? Vfl i think
Roma can he actually jump?
Wheres the next paddy coming from because we need one who can actually ruck
Hayes wouldn't of let sicily do that today, he plays with pure heart and effort and needs to be in at chf when fit
Windy in, i dont care about something to work on, if the years exploratory put him in and ******* explore then!

We have been saying it for years, the midfield is slow and one dimensional
A1 and A2 lol how about get the ball??
Gresh selfish
Higgs brain fader
Simple things to work on yet they never seem to have worked on
Wtf was that by gresh out the middle, just panic and bomb.
He couldve dodged traffic or dished off but chose the last worst option which was a hack kick.
Ive said for a year to let him go and get the pick.
We shouldnt neeed him to go in the middle ffs
Remember that game against geelong a few years ago, absolutely danced around them in the fwd pocket snapping from everywhere.
Thought we had a ten year pocket sewn up, but apparently he is a mid as well.
Nope

I want to see some serious changes after the bye
That would be exploratory

The bonus of a loss is that you can swing the axe and make some changes to the set up. Playing Steele was arrogance. The Hawks had the pressure meter up and we panicked. We couldn't get space or find any targets that weren't covered. We looked like we had no plan for it and carried too many.

 

[gringo2011]

Pressure acts from yesterday

29: Phillipou
28:
27: Hill
26: Butler
25: Caminiti, Sinclair
24: Ross
23:
22:
21: Crouch, Steele
20: Paton
19: Gresham, Wood
18:
17:
16:
15: Marshall
14: Battle, Wanganeen-Milera
13:
12: Stocker
11:
10:
9: Higgins, Wilkie
8: King
7:
6: Webster
5: Sharman
4:
3: Howard

I don't usually look at these stats - is Higgins always so far down the list? And is Caminiti always so high up?

Caminiti works like a small with his pressure. I don't look at them either but just from attending games I'd say that's how he plays.

 

[gringo2011]

There lies the problem..Steele, Crouch & Ross as a collective don’t inspire much confidence!

If they are all fit and at 100% effort they can compete but you can't have nothing behind them our this is going to be on repeat every year.

 

[Klaatu]

It’s a year of exploration not on Windy,Owens or Poo more on Steele,Ross & Crouch he knows the upside of the younger ones he knows he has 3 M/F in the making,it’s our current batch of experienced 3 that is being judged & you can’t make that decision without playing them in there for the year.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Mowman]

Pressure acts from yesterday

29: Phillipou
28:
27: Hill
26: Butler
25: Caminiti, Sinclair
24: Ross
23:
22:
21: Crouch, Steele
20: Paton
19: Gresham, Wood
18:
17:
16:
15: Marshall
14: Battle, Wanganeen-Milera
13:
12: Stocker
11:
10:
9: Higgins, Wilkie
8: King
7:
6: Webster
5: Sharman
4:
3: Howard

I don't usually look at these stats - is Higgins always so far down the list? And is Caminiti always so high up?

What is actually classed as a pressure act ?
See Hill is up there but all I seen was him slapping players as they ran passed . Our tackling was shocking yesterday

 

[gringo2011]

It’s a year of exploration not on Windy,Owens or Poo more on Steele,Ross & Crouch he knows the upside of the younger ones he knows he has 3 M/F in the making,it’s our current batch of experienced 3 that is being judged & you can’t make that decision without playing them in there for the year.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The year of exploration started with a classy threesome but it's starting to look like it's doing meth and waking up next to a bunch of homeless people in a squat now.

 

[Mowman]

The year of exploration started with a classy threesome but it's starting to look like it's doing meth and waking up next to a bunch of homeless people in a squat now.

Year of exploration is nothing more then a cop out if/when it goes pear shape, very Stkilda like

 

[Diehard Saint]

It’s a year of exploration not on Windy,Owens or Poo more on Steele,Ross & Crouch he knows the upside of the younger ones he knows he has 3 M/F in the making,it’s our current batch of experienced 3 that is being judged & you can’t make that decision without playing them in there for the year.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Good point.
Hes “exploring“ who to keep and who he needs to replace and what we need.
It’s not actually about the youngsters. Although generally they’re getting a good go at the same time. He knows what he’s doing with Windy, you can hear that from the presser, no matter what we plebs think.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I was hoping the blonde highlights in his hair this year might be the making of him

Where did you get that stat from? In the “tracker” in match centre for our game on the AFL website he wasn’t in the top 5 for distance covered in the game, and actually hasn’t been top 5 in any game since we played Collingwood in R5. Where he was 4th.

In fact according to the AFL website he’s only been in the top 5 for total distance covered twice from the 11 games.

That Pies game and the freakish one against Essendon where he covered 17.8km. Interestingly in that game all of the top 5 covered at least 16.3km, which I think would be exceedingly unusual.

He can run as much as he likes , he has no hurt factor what so ever and clubs just leave him free as they know he isn't going to do any damage , FFS look at how he kicks the ball , if we had any real depth he would be out

 

[Saints43]

There lies the problem..Steele, Crouch & Ross as a collective don’t inspire much confidence!

I think they've all won AFL best and fairests. They're good players but Steele, especially, is in horrid form. Sebby is and up and down prospect at the moment. Crouch is fine.
I understand the coaches wanting to play Steele into form but I believe Ratts butchered his season last year waiting for Zak Jones to hit a level that never came. You just can't keep carrying someone at the coalface.
Let's hope they all sort themselves out soon so that we can keep winning while introducing younger players into the middle on our own terms.

 

[Joffaboy]

Strange round of upsets so far.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[CaptainRisky]

Do you need an ambulance called???

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

You should change your name to Grubby after that horrible post

 

[Sun Ra]

Strange round of upsets so far.

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My footy tips have been smashed this week.