Autopsy Round 11, 2023: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

[Saint Shags]

If this year really is about exploration then why are we pushing Steele back out there when he isn't fully fit

I think this right here is the thing that gets me most with selections. Everyone can see that he isn't 100% and yet with this year of exploration we continue to push him out.

We want to keep our good players for the long term. Not cut short their playing careers.

A bit of a rest and reset then its an easier draw in the second half of the season.

Like playing the team that we just lost to for a second time?

Yesterday showed that our easy games may not be that easy after all.

No more Mulligan's. Changes need to be made.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Strange round of upsets so far.

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My tipping is taking a battering

 

[PoppedCorn]

24 pressure acts for seb will mean he plays in sydney
Whether we like it or not

What is disappointing is higgins doing little pressure as a small fwd
That coupled with the brain fade shit means the bad is outweighing the good for me atm

Sad because he is a goal sneak and usually kicks a couple, just needs to settle down and chose the right option and needs to tackle more as he had zero yesterday
In fact he has not done much in the tackle dept for the last month

 

[jwikked]

My tipping is taking a battering

I've gotten 1 game right so far. To be fair, I didn't get my tips in on time for the Swans vs Blues game.

 

[The Cobra]

Funny we won the centre clearances and the overall clearances.

That might be correct but have a listen to RTB’s press conference - pretty sure he says the midfield was poor

 

[Jade Buddha]

That might be correct but have a listen to RTB’s press conference - pretty sure he says the midfield was poor

“Chugging along” is how he described the midfield. Tells you a bit.

 

[The Cobra]

Leigh Matthew’s talking about Carlton today in the paper - “ ..you need your good players playing somewhere near their optimum”

Not sure too many of our good players have been near their optimum over the last 4 weeks - maybe Sinclair (only fair yesterday), King the last 2 weeks. Others?

 

[Ads734]

That might be correct but have a listen to RTB’s press conference - pretty sure he says the midfield was poor

Yea agreed but the issue imo was our defensive spread and disposal going into 50. Not getting our hands on it.

 

[luca77]

24 pressure acts for seb will mean he plays in sydney
Whether we like it or not

What is disappointing is higgins doing little pressure as a small fwd
That coupled with the brain fade s**t means the bad is outweighing the good for me atm

Sad because he is a goal sneak and usually kicks a couple, just needs to settle down and chose the right option and needs to tackle more as he had zero yesterday
In fact he has not done much in the tackle dept for the last month

I think Higgins in form is handy, and an unusual forward. With Butler down there, it would worry oppositions.
My main frustration is when we play through him like a mini Jason Dunstall. Oh Higgins is leading one-one-one, I'll kick it long to him. It has to be a brilliant kick for him to take those.
I used to blame him for that a bit, but I think sometimes he's often the only forward identifying the space and presenting well. When Ross kicked to him long in the third last night, I paused it, and the other forwards were nowhere. King was off the ground, Caminiti and the others were in no man's land doing nothing. The only other option was a kick into space just inside 50 where 2 Saints could have taken it, but there was a bit of an interception risk.
So I think part of the problem is structure, and other forwards presenting better options.
Unfortunately Higgins sometimes gets about as many tackles as Dunstall too. Definitely something he needs to work on.

 

[The Cobra]

“Chugging along” is how he described the midfield. Tells you a bit.

Yup - just no one dynamic who can grab it & accelerate and break out of a stoppage with speed (Sincs is our best & he can use it).

Horne Francis did it to us when we played Port.

 

[Sainttony]

Getting smashed in the midfield has been something the coaches have not come to grips with. A few weeks ago RTB said in one of his pressers that he urged his midfield group to go to the next level whichthey did but when that does not work we seem to struggle for a solution.

Thevery obvious thing is to try other guys and develop a second and third set of mids. Try Snags Butler,Phillipou or even Stocker. They give the opposition something new to think about and for short period may give us a lift and change momentum. I’m not suggesting a 100% swap around but try combinations
Crouch, Stocker, Gresham, Higgins
Steele, Sinclair, Phillipou, Butler

We saw our mids get an absolute flogging (look at the stats) yet we only lost by10, which says our system stands up but when personnel are not working, make changes. It can’t hurt. Would loved to have seen a centre square yesterday with Crouch, Battle, Webster and Stocker. Absolute hardnuts, they may not have won the clearance but gives Hawthorn something new to look at. A Battle bump or Stocker tackle might change momentum, get our guys excite.

 

[Xxxx66]

Yep sort of circled around like his mates Hilly and Ross rather than cracking in.

He’ll get it. He’s too competitive not to.

Need to keep playing him to fast track him to A grade, but probably not best 22 with a fit list.

 

[bergholt]

What is actually classed as a pressure act ?
See Hill is up there but all I seen was him slapping players as they ran passed . Our tackling was shocking yesterday

Yeah no idea but agree that our tackling always seems pretty poor except when we’re absolutely on top of our game.

 

[Xxxx66]

And just to add to that the year stats for centre clearances as a % of centre bounce attendances:

27.9% Owens (7 centre clearances from 26 centre bounce attendances)
14.5% Clark (12 from 83)
14.4% Sinclair (13 from 90)
14.1% Crouch (29 from 206)
12.5% Phillipou (2 from 16)
12.1% Gresham (11 from 91)
11.5% Steele (16 from 139)
11.2% Ross (19 from 170)
5.6% Marshall (13 from 231)
4.8% Bytel (1 from 21)
0.0% Caminiti (0 from 5)
0.0% Cordy (0 from 17)
0.0% Windhager (0 from 15)

Feels like Steele and Ross are the problem in there, which accords with the eye test.

Clearance stats can be misleading. First touch doesn't always = a burst forward out of a clearance.
We sometimes get first touch, cough it up all within 10 metres of a Centre bounce

 

[PoppedCorn]

Clearance stats can be misleading. First touch doesn't always = a burst forward out of a clearance.
We sometimes get first touch, cough it up all within 10 metres of a Centre bounce

Exactly
We clear it with a scrubber or over the shoulder kick to a contest we dont have an advatage in
Its not like we are busting out the guts harvey style lacing it to gtrain

 

[Xxxx66]

Correct, the club is pathetic.

Nah. We lost a game we should have won, so did a few others.. doesn't make them pathetic either. we played bad today. Btw happy to finish between 5 and 8 and play a final. Springboard for next year.

 

[luca77]

Nah. We lost a game we should have won, so did a few others.. doesn't make them pathetic either. we played bad today. Btw happy to finish between 5 and 8 and play a final. Springboard for next year.

A slippery one, pefect for our signature move - the bellyflop. Ross would do a great one, I reckon.

 

[StPiper]

Sorry if this has been posted already, but I found some of Wilkie’s post match comments interesting. When asked what Ross’s message to the players was he mentioned players picking and choosing when to put in effort and also the fact that we’ve been crap for the last month.

This should be obvious, but it looks like there are much more direct observations being made by Ross to the playing group than the fluff he gives in his pressers.

You would hope he’s building up a nice and detailed little dossier on the players who are not going to take us forward. Although that could’ve been half the playing group based on yesterday’s performance.

 

[Plugger35]

No, we started with no gas.

We were like that episode of Seinfeld where Kramer tries to see how far he could drive on an empty tank and like in that episode it didn't end well for us.

24 pressure acts for seb will mean he plays in sydney
Whether we like it or not

What is disappointing is higgins doing little pressure as a small fwd
That coupled with the brain fade s**t means the bad is outweighing the good for me atm

Sad because he is a goal sneak and usually kicks a couple, just needs to settle down and chose the right option and needs to tackle more as he had zero yesterday
In fact he has not done much in the tackle dept for the last month

Higgins has never been much of a tackler, that is more Butler's role, Higgins role is to kick goals and if he isn't doing that he is next to useless.

 

[Xxxx66]

Yes overall we have done well with our draft selections in the last couple of drafts, BUT we have still not taken a high draft pick who was a pure mid.

You can see the Poo will be very good for us, but will he be a midfield beast? Owens looks like being a freak for us, but again may not be a midfield best.

Our pure mids have all been later picks like Windy or even Bytel. Though we did get Crouch as a free agent. He is not an elite mid though.

The midfield is the engine rooms of all teams, and ours is not a V8.

Think Owens will be very similar to Bont if he continues on current trajectory

 

[Klaatu]

Ross eared in not playing Membrey or Evan Cordy as the player to lock down on Sciscily as he gave us a lesson.


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[Xxxx66]

The year of exploration started with a classy threesome but it's starting to look like it's doing meth and waking up next to a bunch of homeless people in a squat now.

No idea how you come up with these zingers

 

[George]

When situations change, opinions change. Otherwise you're just an idiot. Might be too difficult for some to understand, I know.

 

[magd2992]

Riveting reading this thread.

heck me it was a disappointing loss. But that’s the reality of where we are at.

Let’s also get beyond discussing whether this year is an “exploration” year or not, and whether sweeping changes are needed. It’s not all or nothing. You can be exploring your list, individual players, structures etc without making wholesale changes. In fact, I’d say making knee-jerk changes without putting in place controls for for variables is the last thing you want to do. You need to be methodical and judicious of which levers you pull, and when.

We should not have lost that game on paper but when you see the way we played, we should have lost by 4-5 goals. We actually didn’t even get what we deserved.

Take the bye (much needed as our past month has been average to poor), reflect and make sure you come out firing against Sydney.

 

[George]

Sorry if this has been posted already, but I found some of Wilkie’s post match comments interesting. When asked what Ross’s message to the players was he mentioned players picking and choosing when to put in effort and also the fact that we’ve been crap for the last month.

This should be obvious, but it looks like there are much more direct observations being made by Ross to the playing group than the fluff he gives in his pressers.

You would hope he’s building up a nice and detailed little dossier on the players who are not going to take us forward. Although that could’ve been half the playing group based on yesterday’s performance.

Picking and choosing has been an issue for this group for so many years. It's exhausting hearing them trot out the same lines all the time. You're a professional footballer, act like one?

Can't even totally blame the players given the environment they've been in. We have no clue what standards or winning looks like unfortunately.