Review Round 20 = Collingwood 76-93 Carlton

[ZEV]

Especially that tosser with the drum!!!

What a w***er

 

[eyeroller]

Final thought for the night- the ball seems to ping out from our forward 50 very easily and it has seemed that way for weeks.
Can we improve our forward half game or is it not in line with our game plan? (I'm no footy maestro).

 

[Mollythedolly]

Clearly my post was too subtle.
At what point did I say they weren’t there?

I simply stated consistency of decisions….
AFL is easily the most biased and worst refereed game.

Utopian dream. With 4 different umpires bringing their own interpretations, you’re never going to get consistency so I don’t waste too much time on it. As such, and as it’s also a completely different discussion, I just chose to ignore your point. Out of curiosity, which were the ones our forwards didn’t get? I don’t recall any.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Fly's presser

You came up against a pretty good side tonight.

"Yeah credit to them, I thought they dominated major parts of the game particularly the contested possession in the second quarter, it was overwhelming you know that just the energy around the contest and clearance. It put us right on the back foot and it made it really difficult to get the game on our terms particularly in that part of the game".

Is being two games clear on top enabled your players to 'relent' a little bit?

"Hard to know, how do you measure that? But no, you give credit to the opposition first and then you look at what we need to improve. I think that you know the way they've been playing, clearly they've been playing in great form and they've turned the game around in certain parts of their game and their pressure is high and defending well. I think credit to what Michael's [Voss] has done and I'm really happy for him; just not that happy tonight. Then you get to us, we are in the business of getting better. This is a marathon and you just have to keep improving you. We've had a great season to date, but it's not finished. There is still so much work to do, so you're just learning lessons along the way and looking at things that you can improve on. We have to get better and tonight is an example of it but it's not just tonight, I think you can't stand still in this game because teams take things away from you really quickly, so we're going have to improve".

After such a hard game last week against Port Adelaide, is it possible that might have caused you to be a bit flat tonight?

"The only way we can measure that is through our GPS, so we'll have a look at that early in the week and we'll see if there's any markers there that are off. Face value it's hard to tell. I thought we generated enough scoring shots. We were forced potentially to play a different version in the second quarter because we lost so much contest, but I didn't think we played our style in the second quarter. I thought we went away from who we are. I mentioned it at half time and then in the third quarter I thought we came out okay. We just didn't execute. We had +12 inside 50's or something like that and we kicked 2 goals, 5 [behinds]. Previous weeks we've been taking our chances, but tonight we didn't. I think we generated more scoring shots in the end, but it doesn't mean we were the better team. I thought they were clearly the better team, but we had enough chances. Hard to know that's energy levels executing; be hard to say".

Is this result a timely reminder that the competition is very tight and if you're a few percent off, it can be the difference between winning and losing?

"We've been under no illusion this is a tough competition right from the start. We've got a big game every week. It just seems that's what it is. We embrace all that and step into it. We'd like to think you're walking our four walls you wouldn't know if we won or lost. We're just in the business of trying to improve ourselves individually and collectively. Tonight we've probably got a few bigger things to look at in terms of things we didn't quite execute".

Have you got a little trick up your sleeve with Jeremy Howe

38

Jeremy Howe

Age

34

Ht

190cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.1

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

21.5

5star

K

16.5

5star

HB

5.0

3star

M

6.5

5star

T

2.0

3star

MG

433.3

5star

D

15.2

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

being moved forward and having an impact?

"This is the business we're in looking for opportunities that the game wasn't. They had Curnow and maybe resting ruckman down there, but it presented an opportunity to Howie who was on smalls and we thought well let's try him in a couple of different roles. A little bit of wing and then forward and he's a quality player".

What was your thinking around Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

being subbed off?

"Mason's last couple of weeks haven't been his best for the season, let's call it what it is. We just wanted to change it up a bit. We wanted to try to play faster, which means it has to be a cost somewhere and that's why Howie went forward. We had a second ruck through Dan [McStay]. It just is what it is, we just made a decision that we thought we could get a benefit somewhere else".

Daniel McStay looked a bit sore in the end, any concerns?

"No, he is just a bit sore. I think he might have been cramping a little bit, but he presented well. Dan's marking the ball well. Showing all the signs of why we got him to the club and I think he's going to get better as the season goes on. He's missed a lot of footy".

Your list is probably the healthiest it's been on the injury front, are you finding it difficult balancing the team and keeping everyone happy especially those on the fringes?

"Yeah it's always difficult, there's always a cost isn't there? I think I've had 5, 6, 7 conversations with the guys on the fringe this week about where they sit, what we're thinking, are we forecasting anything. We got Billy Frampton

17

Billy Frampton

Age

28

Ht

201cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.7

3star

MG

99.0

2star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

99.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

107.0

2star

, looking forward to seeing how he plays tomorrow. Ash Johnson and Jack Ginnivan and these guys have been in good form at VFL level, so it's a good problem because it puts pressure on and if you don't execute then someone might be jumping up to take your spot. We missed Bobby Hill tonight with his pressure around the ball. We'll see how that progresses next week".

Do you expect Bobby Hill to be available next week?

"I think so. He was quite ill the last couple of days and trying to get himself up to run today and just couldn't get himself going. We're anticipating he trains well and he will be available".

It was reported illness had swept through the club?

"No, that's not true. We we're very strategic in our planning of guys that can come in the building. Are we being a bit conservative? maybe. The stats say that we're 8th or 9th in terms of people missing games from illness. I think we're just potentially being a bit conservative with guys being in our building, but there will be no excuses for illness".

'We have to get better': McRae

Hear from Senior Coach Craig McRae after Collingwood's Round 20 clash against Carlton.

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

 

[Carringbush2010]

Faith is all we have! I want to be convinced.

There is no convincing, something we have to endure, especially being Pie fans.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

I thought McStay was good in parts

I felt like we badly missed the zip of Hill or at-least the crumbing ability of he/Ginni. It can’t be neither.

I thought Howe up forward was fantastic from the perspective of some have been asking to see what he looks like as a forward again (Melbourne days), let’s see much much more of it.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Since returning from injury, Howe has looked lost in defence. So much so that I would not hesitate to replace him with Frampton. And up forward, AJ is far more proven in a similar 3rd forward role, despite Howe’s great cameo tonight.


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Mihochek has been unimpressive too often as a forward in recent times, and with Howe's cameo, McStays' decent game and AJ's availability, I'd omit Mihochek - give him a break, play him in the VFL, whatever, but he is not profiting from McStay's presence as expected.

Our forward line tonight was ineffective, with only McStay providing any kind of avenue to goal. McCreery did a few good things but twice fluffed the easiest of chances on goal, and is not enough of a presence to justify the automatic selection with which he seems blessed.

Cox's game had me questioning the club's list management, given he has just been signed up for a further two years. He cannot be selected next week on the strength of his performance tonight. You could see when he was benched that even he knew he is certain of playing first ruck for our VFL team next week.

Moore played his worst game in living memory. He is no full back, and when he is required to man up a FF star, the team is robbed of drive he might have provided in an intercept role. Quaynor was down, Maynard struggled, Murphy tried hard, Noble I thought was one of our better players, providing run and rebound where others failed to contribute.

De Goey, Mitchell, Naicos and Adams collectively decided to play their least effective game for the season.

The only positive from this win was the gifting of 3 free stubbies (added to the 4 I bought) at the Down Under Bar in Bangkok, thanks to a Carlton win prompting an emotional out-pouring of generosity from 2 Carlton supporters, and (inexplicably) 1 Collingwood supporter, all 3 ringing the bell and buying drinks for about 20 patrons.

The same Collingwood supporter and the most vocal Carlton supporter (of which there seemed far too many) were nose to nose, chest to chest after the game. A punch on seemed inevitable, but the intervention of a few soothing, sweet-talking sort of chaps nipped the fight in the bud, to the point where the men were all but fondling each other with the physicality of their cringeworthy backdowns.

Not that I wanted to witness a fight - in the end it's only a game, even if they are scum and we're not. But tonight, we were more scum than them.

 

[HyPIEcrite]

Would’ve loved to see the impact checkers converting that set-shot at the start of the 4th. Oh well


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[Kes1984]

Other than Hill, who was ill, who else would have been selected

It’s more who wouldn’t have been for me.

Frampton should play instead of Howe. Unless Howe now wants to take Mohoceks place in the forward line.
Ginnivan should have been the choice for Bobby hill. Should also take his place if he performed.

Lipinski shouldn’t keep getting a game on post injury form.

 

[beerbandit]

The reality is that we probably should of won this game. We missed so many sodas from no further then 20-30 out.

Just feel the boys felt the heat a little this week and a bit like against Melbourne we looked flat, tired and sore.

On the other hand it’s a very good time for a loss as it lets the boys sit down and reset to show what is required to win this years premiership.

I still have no doubt that this is the year of the magpie.

 

[unplugged]

I'll be very interested to see how Port look this week!

 

[Big Bryza]

Yes. But many teams have been in that position and not won a flag. How can we be a great side but never have won a flag?

You can't win a flag in July.

 

[Big Bryza]

Outplayed by a depleted Carlton side who also went on to lose Cerra.

They deserved the win as much as I hate to say it.

Poor loss and for mine the question of whether a back half game can take us all the way to a flag remains.

History would suggest no and after a narrow win and now defeat in games where the opposition effectively shut down our transition for large periods the jury is still out.

After the way Melbourne dealt with us, this was my biggest concern. We can't afford to rely on slingshot footy all the time.

Scores from stoppages wouldve told a tale last night. I'm sure we only scored from turnover.

Ugly night, but there is time to get our arse into gear.

 

[Big Bryza]

Disappointing night but Carlton brought some decent pressure and converted their chances better. Maynard, Crisp and JDG best for mine but a very uneven team performance and of course horrible goal kicking. I don’t know but I feel we’ve gone one handball too many sometimes recently. Anyway Fly and the coaches will sort it out. Seemed like one of those games where you just don’t turn up 100 mentally. Expect the hard edge to return and still don’t think we’ve seen our very best yet.

I'll give you Bruzzy but not the other 2.

Crisp was the invisible man until 3/4 time.

JDG's kicking continues to let him and the team down, time and time again.

 

[loki04]

I'd like to be able to have a moan about Curnow's free kicks, but they were all there. 2 of them were pretty soft, but technically there. I wish Trav had gotten that treatment when he was playing.

Imo the worst one was the Ruck infringement for high, Cox was pretty stiff there as Curnow and he engaged how most rucks would but the height difference meant his arm come across slightly high but Curnow also pushed up into his arm pit attributing to the contact.

 

[Big Bryza]

Clear as day that the players minds were still in Adelaide. Our lack of intensity and going through the motions was evident to see.

The whole teams have figured us out is a furphy anyway. It's a game of footy not a rocket launching contest.

Our mids got absolute pantsed again and that's where it's won and lost. Cerra tore us to bits early on and no wonder we turned the tide to an extent when he went off.

Jamie Elliott inexplicably passing the ball off the Checkers in the last summed up the night.

Curnow gift wrapped 7 goals against us this year. Fair dinkum disgusting umpiring.

Anyway, 16-3 is where it's at. Time to get our heads back in the game because there is a flag to be won, if we want it badly enough.

 

[Kes1984]

Drop Cox.

Frampton to defence.

Howe forward.

Done.

Add to that Nick back to half back. That’s where he was tracking to win a brownlow.
Stay in the midfield and he may miss it. Ironic considering it’s a midfielders award. He’s not going to poll in the last two games.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Mihochek has been unimpressive too often as a forward in recent times, and with Howe's cameo, McStays' decent game and AJ's availability, I'd omit Mihochek - give him a break, play him in the VFL, whatever, but he is not profiting from McStay's presence as expected.

Our forward line tonight was ineffective, with only McStay providing any kind of avenue to goal. McCreery did a few good things but twice fluffed the easiest of chances on goal, and is not enough of a presence to justify the automatic selection with which he seems blessed.

Cox's game had me questioning the club's list management, given he has just been signed up for a further two years. He cannot be selected next week on the strength of his performance tonight. You could see when he was benched that even he knew he is certain of playing first ruck for our VFL team next week.

Moore played his worst game in living memory. He is no full back, and when he is required to man up a FF star, the team is robbed of drive he might have provided in an intercept role. Quaynor was down, Maynard struggled, Murphy tried hard, Noble I thought was one of our better players, providing run and rebound where others failed to contribute.

De Goey, Mitchell, Naicos and Adams collectively decided to play their least effective game for the season.

The only positive from this win was the gifting of 3 free stubbies (added to the 4 I bought) at the Down Under Bar in Bangkok, thanks to a Carlton win prompting an emotional out-pouring of generosity from 2 Carlton supporters, and (inexplicably) 1 Collingwood supporter, all 3 ringing the bell and buying drinks for about 20 patrons.

The same Collingwood supporter and the most vocal Carlton supporter (of which there seemed far too many) were nose to nose, chest to chest after the game. A punch on seemed inevitable, but the intervention of a few soothing, sweet-talking sort of chaps nipped the fight in the bud, to the point where the men were all but fondling each other with the physicality of their cringeworthy backdowns.

Not that I wanted to witness a fight - in the end it's only a game, even if they are scum and we're not. But tonight, we were more scum than them.

Asian bar footy dynamics are great

At the Coll v Geel final last year I had a bloke ask to share my table in a Seminyak bar

My heart sank a little when I found out he was a Carlton supporter

But no, he was barracking for us, knew our players well, and was a great bloke

F*cking unicorns hey?!

 

[CasuallyDressed]

• Pretty putrid performance.
• Carlton fans should never call our fans "feral" again after what I went through last night.

 

[jimmy35]

Horrendous. Left at least 5 goals behind through really poor goal kicking. Sliced open on transition and smashed in contested ball. How the **** did we only lose by 17 points.

 

[Anzacday]

Credit where credit is due, they were too good on the night.
That said, we looked tired.
At one point I noticed 4 or 5 players with their hands on their hips in the 3rd.
Still fought it out and could’ve made them nervous in the last.
PS: Nice to Howie get a run in the forward line at last.

 

[Snakerz]

We’ll be okay guys.

 

[Bianconeri]

Hard to be too critical of Naicos but he did a lot of standing back from the contest rather than try and affect it. Mindset? Worried about injury?

He’s just more of an outside player at this stage of his career. Think he needs to be moved back to half back where he can receive the ball in more space.

 

[JLC]

Frees we’re there, they were paid, pointless sooking about them. Whether they were soft or otherwise is irrelevant. Whether other similar ones are overlooked has no bearing on those specific decisions. I thought the umpiring was the least of our issues tonight and if anything we likely got the rub of the green from them.

I think what is evident from watching a fair few Carlton games is that Curnow is officiated differently to other forwards. He gets a very very good run.

You can look at Kangas v Carlton, our game earlier this season, last night and there would be other games.

The Motlop / Matty Lloyd style free kick was embarrassing.

But we needed to be better - the fact that we couldn't exploit their lack of leg speed and unbalanced midfield was not good enough. We made an injury prone Jack Martin look like a world bearer. Yes he was number 1 draft pick but he is a once a month plays an ok game player.

We couldn't even apply decent pressure to expose their teams average foot skills. We allowed them to get away with easy chip kicks and changing angles. We didn't force them into enough pressure panic situations. That was also not good enough.

The only two players that showed the requisite amount of desire were Markov and Howe (last quarter).



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[MEDHURST69]

Am I the only one who thinks pendles needs a spell? I love the bloke but he is turning into a turnover machine these past 2 weeks to the point where I wonder if he would be more suited to the sub role so we can protect his body and longevity. Plenty of players in the VFL who can have similar impact on the game with disposal efficiency and ground covered.... Just a thought