Autopsy Round 3, 2018: St.Kilda v Adelaide

[Joffaboy]

2001/2002 point is a good one, I feel as though it's heading that way too which sucks because it wasn't fun. I go to basically every game played in Melbourne, last night I couldn't due to other commitments but I'll be there next week. It's draining arriving at the ground with the hope before the bounce you see seats filled and by the time the ball is bounced you can barely tell the difference in crowd size from 6:30 to 7:30.

Always think that any out of contract player who comes to play us and see's this would just think 'why on earth would I consider St Kilda as a club to come and play at' when we are pulling 19k on a Saturday night.

In 2001/2002 we had Reiwoldt and Kosi.

Name our Reiwoldt and Kosi now

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[#gosaintas]

It felt like we were back in 2013/2014, it really did.

The effort was there but the skills weren't

It feels like we've gone backwards and that is the frustrating thing. Why has this happened? What are we going to do about it? They're the questions that I'm keen to get answers for.

Am not sure that the effort was there. Players refused to work for eachother and create options in the 2nd half.

 

[Longmembrey]

Steele has to play AFL as an inside midfielder. Armitage was our worst inside midfielder, so he should make way. The match selection committee won’t have the balls tho.

I think we need to try a smaller forward line. One of Paddy or Bruce to be dropped... I don’t think either were necessarily bad, but we need mobility. Membrey (Battle if Membrey’s not fit) back in for Paddy, until Paddy’s clunking his marks again. He’s too much of a liability when he’s dropping them once it hits the deck.

Weller (Lonie if Weller’s not fit) back in at the expense of Wright, he’s done, no more wasted AFL games on him please.

I’d back, Billings and Gresham in for one last chance, but they’re on thin ice, woefully out of form.

Didn’t think Long was too bad, he’s at least pressuring and harassing, doing his role.

Out: Armo, Paddy, Wright
In: Steele, Membrey/Battle, Weller/Lonie

These would be my exact changes too

 

[_Maximus_12]

I want Paddy to do well, but he has no track record as "the best key forward".

Well Bruce is certainly no better, and Membrey ain’t a key forward.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Paddy needs to go back to Sandy and be forced to knock the door down.Give Battle a run, he's almost gone passed Paddy at this stage IMO.
Lonie for Long, I feel dirty just saying it.
Sending Bruce to defence is not the answer, people forget he was a terrible backman. We need to persist a little longer with him, along with Members, is the only forward likely to kick a bag on any given day.
The Billy Longer project has failed to launch, Marshall's effort clearly showed what we're missing.

 

[Tyrian Loinstar]

People need to stop calling for Paddy to play VFL.
A) He’s the best key forward on our list.
B) He has proven he is a class above VFL defenders
C) Our ball movement inside 50 is deplorable.
D) He needs games at AFL Level to gain confidence. He’s not going to gain confidence by being tapped on the shoulder and told that we don’t think he’s up to it yet, and that he needs a spell at VFL level.
E)He needs games for us to assess his long term prospects at the game
F) Battle is not the answer right now.
G) Talls take time. He hasn’t even played 30 games.i don’t care how long he’s been on our list, you don’t get AFL experience by sitting in the stands watching, otherwise we’d all be guns.

Paddy has proven squat so far apart from that he struggles to mark in the fwd half with flat hands for the ball to bounce off.
He has no tank is terrible on the rebound, i could go on.

Paddy is not our 1st tall fwd.
Skunk, Battle, Bruce.... daylight.... Paddy

 

[kernelT]

Any thoughts who comes out and who goes out

in - Battle , Lonie , Steele , Rice , Goddard

out - Armitage

I would like to see:
Hickey come in as first ruck - Out Bruce (Marshall plays forward / rucks)
Steele - Armo
Clark - Wright
Lonie - Long
Goddard/Austin - Brown

 

[saintbill]

Bruce gets a rough time in here, he's hard working and hard running, him and Paddy hardly got a decent kick too them last night, he tends to drop more marks after he's had to play ruck which he did lots of last night. Paddy has to come out, he's lost all confidence and is not getting better from being embarrassed under extreme pressure. The idea that you just have to play a player because of the investment is stupid. Battle makes more sense as he can help our with run.

I'd have Bruce and Battle/ Membrey as our tall forwards and Roma as a ruck forward and then stack the smalls in with them. For some reason we don't have a lot of crumbing players despite having lots of small forwards. Lonie, Gresh and Mav the most crumbing like players.

I don't think it is about the investment. Putting pick 1 aside, who has more upside Bruce or McCartin? Right now, I would say they are as equally ineffective as each other. However, Paddy is younger and will get better. Bruce has gone backwards or at best stagnated.

I agree the ruck does him no favors, so let's swing him back again where he can use his athleticism.

McCartin deserves more than 3 games IMO. If Battle comes in and does nothing for the first couple of games are you going to put a line through him?

Let's put some confidence in the kids and you might just find they surprise us.

 

[VDS66]

If we were allowed to sack richo by the afl which would be doubtful anyway do people really think that is the answer 3 rounds in. Let’s look at it logically. Who would we get at this stage first of all. How could they fix skills which is the real problem during the game how do we get the close 3 million dollars it would cost to sack richo. How does that fix the recruiting of unskilled and the wrong type of players and how stupid would we look to our supporters and sponsees after just re signing him

I know people richo to be the problem because that is easy to fix. The list is the problem and that is a much longer fix. By the we have probably sacked the most coaches in the afl. How many flags has that got us. The answer is none


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I think the hardest part for us supporters is to just accept where we are at (myself included).

Can't recall exactly when but I said at the time it was great that we young talent, but was it good enough to compete when GWS are at their prime.

Our whole plan relies on us nailing every single pick and trade... Which is impossible.

Dmac and Paddy aside, we seem to have done OK with our high picks.

Have also said that X game when we played the kids looked exciting.

Of course these kids aren't hardened or fit enough but they seem to bring more to the table in terms of what's required in the modern game... Very dynamic players.

As you say we wont sack Richo, as much as he may well deserve to be.

So the way I see it is...

Get some string tactical assistants.

Accept that some of kids we pinned our hopes on won't be good enough such as Newnes and Webster.

If you do the above then the logical step is blood our better kids and phase out stodgy players.

Frankly we don't have anything to lose so why wait until next year?

 

[Longmembrey]

LOL. Wondered what your avvie pic was.
Hope that wasn't you...

Ha ha, no, it was more a tribute to last week's mega melt thread.

 

[Joffaboy]

Is it worth trying Paddy as the intercept mark in defence and moving Carlisle fwd?

Would prefer Bruce to be given a go there. Has been played back before and has had three seasons to prove himself up forward with diminishing returns.

Paddy needs to learn his craft up forward for mine.

Bring in Battle or rotate Hickey and Marshall through the forward line.

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[Geary Is GOAT]

Richo says it dissapointing that only 20,000 poeple turned up. maybe take some RESPONABILITY for your outdated gameplan, lack of structures and just inspirationless coaching.

He was directly asked if it was disappointing that less than 20,000 showed up. What was he supposed to say? No? He even said it was because of our poor performance. He didn't just say it out of the blue.

 

[Tyrian Loinstar]

Is it worth trying Paddy as the intercept mark in defence and moving Carlisle fwd?

IMO we'd expose him more down back, leak more goals and destroy his confidence.

 

[Macgruber]

In 2001/2002 we had Reiwoldt and Kosi.

Name our Reiwoldt and Kosi now

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Kosi = McCartin unfortunately

 

[#gosaintas]

IMO we'd expose him more down back, leak more goals and destroy his confidence.

Yeah maybe right. But he can take a grab as an intercept marker and it would allow Carlisle to go fwd. He's also a much better field kick than Bruce. Then drop Bruce and bring in Battle.

 

[kernelT]

Bruce gets a rough time in here, he's hard working and hard running.

This is a big part of our problem IMO, accepting average performances from senior players because they are trying hard

Working hard isn't enough.

 

[Murraj1966]

This is how I'm viewing the list after last night and we've all been making the points that this group as it stands needs a culling of deadwood nothing players.

1 Tom Hickey - Trade or Delist
2 Jake Carlisle - Keep
3 Jack Steven - Keep
4 Jade Gresham - Keep
5 Shane Savage - Keep
6 Sebastian Ross - Keep
7 Luke Dunstan - Keep
8 Blake Acres - Keep
9 Jack Steele - Keep
10 Nathan Freeman - Delist
11 Hunter Clark - Keep
13 Jack Lonie - Trade or Keep
14 Jarryn Geary (c) - Keep
15 Jack Billings - Keep
16 Jack Newnes - Trade or Keep
17 Dylan Roberton - Keep
18 Billy Longer - Trade or Keep
19 Sam Gilbert - Retire
20 David Armitage - Retire
21 Ben Long - Keep
22 Nathan Brown - Keep for one more then retire
23 Hugh Goddard - Unknown
24 Logan Austin - Unknown
25 Koby Stevens - Delist
26 Josh Battle - Keep
27 Josh Bruce - Trade or keep
28 Tim Membrey - Keep
29 Jimmy Webster - Keep
30 Ed Phillips - Unknown
31 Brandon White - Keep for development
32 Paddy McCartin - Keep
33 Nick Coffield - Keep
34 Nathan Wright - Delist
35 Jack Sinclair - Keep
36 Daniel McKenzie - Delist
37 Bailey Rice - Trade or Delist
38 Oscar Clavarino - Unknown
41 Darren Minchington - Delist
44 Maverick Weller - Trade or Keep
45 Ben Paton - Unknown
39 Darragh Joyce (B) - Unknown
40 Ray Connellan (B) - Unknown
42 Lewis Pierce - Delist
43 Rowan Marshall - Keep
46 Doulton Langlands - Unknown

 

[rubbers0ul]

I agree with that but not trading Seb, he's one of the few we can't afford to lose and still young.

Acres and sinclair were very good until the genius coach moved them both to deep in forward line for the second half.


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[tim_saints]

In 2001/2002 we had Reiwoldt and Kosi.

Name our Reiwoldt and Kosi now

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100% correct, more to the point of why I am so concerned.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep, you really notice it from lvl 3 at ground. Mids have to u-turn, handball backwards and bomb it long because there are no easy targets to kick to.

One paced and heavy legged through the midfield. We need quick players and don't have them yet. It should be a focus next trade and draft.

 

[Premium]

Battle must be looked at this week after our effort this week , might as well keep McCartin in but play him as Full Forward and keep him there.
Billings stays in due to the fact he is one of our best players and will turn it around,
Bring in Rice , Steele , Weller if fit and bring in Hickey.
Brown is another who has had his day , for a backman who never had a kick in a back line that was hammered is just not good enough just being a stopper, time to blood one of Austin or Goddard.

Rice - Goddard - Roberton
White - Carlisle - Coffield
Sinclair - Steele - Acres
Battle - Marshall - Billings
Long - McCartin - Lonie

Hickey - Ross - Steven

Geary / Webster / Dunstan / Savage

out
Brown
Gresham
Bruce
Armitage
Wright
Newnes

 

[gringo2011]

Acres and sinclair were very good until the genius coach moved them both to deep in forward line for the second half.


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they were out on they legs. We loved shot after half time. Adelaide just let us run ourselves out of legs. If we'd been 35 points up the pain would have been worth it but eventually they just started struggling to keep up with the seasoned Crows.

 

[VDS66]

On the money there Plug.
Tell people they're hopeless enough and they'll be hopeless.

Club needs to build confidence and atm looks like we're doing the opposite with many playing well below their best.

I think all the positive comments and vibe in players social media from supporters is really helping them regain that confidence.

 

[kernelT]

This is how I'm viewing the list after last night and we've all been making the points that this group as it stands needs a culling of deadwood nothing players.

1 Tom Hickey - Trade or Delist
2 Jake Carlisle - Keep
3 Jack Steven - Keep
4 Jade Gresham - Keep
5 Shane Savage - Keep
6 Sebastian Ross - Keep
7 Luke Dunstan - Keep
8 Blake Acres - Keep
9 Jack Steele - Keep
10 Nathan Freeman - Delist
11 Hunter Clark - Keep
13 Jack Lonie - Trade or Keep
14 Jarryn Geary (c) - Keep
15 Jack Billings - Keep
16 Jack Newnes - Trade or Keep
17 Dylan Roberton - Keep
18 Billy Longer - Trade or Keep
19 Sam Gilbert - Retire
20 David Armitage - Retire
21 Ben Long - Keep
22 Nathan Brown - Keep for one more then retire
23 Hugh Goddard - Unknown
24 Logan Austin - Unknown
25 Koby Stevens - Delist
26 Josh Battle - Keep
27 Josh Bruce - Trade or keep
28 Tim Membrey - Keep
29 Jimmy Webster - Keep
30 Ed Phillips - Unknown
31 Brandon White - Keep for development
32 Paddy McCartin - Keep
33 Nick Coffield - Keep
34 Nathan Wright - Delist
35 Jack Sinclair - Keep
36 Daniel McKenzie - Delist
37 Bailey Rice - Trade or Delist
38 Oscar Clavarino - Unknown
41 Darren Minchington - Delist
44 Maverick Weller - Trade or Keep
45 Ben Paton - Unknown
39 Darragh Joyce (B) - Unknown
40 Ray Connellan (B) - Unknown
42 Lewis Pierce - Delist
43 Rowan Marshall - Keep
46 Doulton Langlands - Unknown

I agree with most of this… it's pretty alarming how many we could shed this year, we won't be able to add 10 players either - particularly as we have no 2nd or 3rd rounder at this stage.

I think we need to see Rice play some seniors before drawing a line through his name.

If Freeman can make it onto the field he would be worth another year after we've put so much into him.

 

[Groater]

-Need more from Carlisle IMO. One of the few very talented players on our list. Playing a loose marking defender is not enough. Time to make him a full forward/2nd ruck option. Only bloke we have with good hands at the moment. Would help solve point 5. Hickey offers nothing resting forward. Marshall/Carlisle combo would be decent in both ruck and resting forward. Carlisle would most probably sook it up, but too bad. I reckon Thompson had it right all along.

Agree. We only have one KPF at the moment and that's Paddy and he needs support.

Get rid of Bruce though, he's offering less than nothing. Goddard/Austin were brought onto the list as potential KPDs, and have been around the traps for a few years - give them a run and find out if they can do it.